toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What Scripture says you cannot? There are verses that are stern warnings about the possibility of falling away in addition to ones about the security of the believer with conditional aspects. The only way to embrace all relevant verses is conditional vs unconditional eternal security.

Given free will, the concept is self-evident.

What is truly "self-evident" is that, you don't know
what you're talking about! You're all mixed up my
friend!

 

[99lamb]

Grosnick Marowbe
Once one is, truly saved and in the body of Christ and the Holy
Spirit is within them (indwelled) they are sealed and cannot lose
their forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life that, God has bestowed
upon them, through the shed blood and resurrection of His Son!

Christ is, in them, and they are, in Christ, there's no turning back,
nor would any true believer desire to go back!

I would only add Gal.2:20 "I am crucified with Christ:nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
vs.21" I do not frustrate the grace of God:for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain"

As an inquiring mind, why do you believe there are people on both sides of this issue who strongly contend for their positions, and can show ample scriptural support for their belief? (wheat and tares? or something else)

 

[kmoney]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 10th, 2013 05:00 AM

toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they change their mind about wanting to be with God in heaven?

Yes. I think you can argue that it is unlikely for this to happen but ultimately I believe it is possible.

I've never fully understood when people, when discussing why some people go to hell, say that God doesn't force Himself on people and then also believe in OSAS. I don't believe there is a mysterious line that if someone crosses they will never go back or that they will always remain saved no matter what they do afterwards.

 

[zippy2006]

I don't believe there is a mysterious line that if someone crosses they will never go back or that they will always remain saved no matter what they do afterwards.

Yes, although Evangelical categories are here encroaching on our thought. Scripturally and truly it would be more accurate to reserve "salvation" for actually arriving at the promised land. Our journey across the desert and foretastes of the promise can in once sense be thought of as our salvation and the inauguration of the new creation, but in a strict sense salvation is understood as the complete fulfillment of the promise and is not had in our lifetime on this earth. :e4e:

 

[Tehmill]

Wheat will always be wheat, tares will always be tares. Even when wheat spoils it still is wheat and useful for manure.

 

[Tehmill]

The Jews once they left Egypt could never return, they were totally in God's hands in the wilderness. Their prosperity or woe depended upon believing the promise but even if they fell in the wilderness does not mean they lost their inheritance for inheritance is passed on to the children. They were God's people and so are we when we are saved...if we go back we place ourselves in danger, we may even die but our salvation which like the Jews depends upon the promise is assured.

And the Jews HAD to leave Egypt for the Egyptians themselves drove them out. That's how God works...freewill is an illusion.

 

[kmoney]

Yes, although Evangelical categories are here encroaching on our thought. Scripturally and truly it would be more accurate to reserve "salvation" for actually arriving at the promised land. Our journey across the desert and foretastes of the promise can in once sense be thought of as our salvation and the inauguration of the new creation, but in a strict sense salvation is understood as the complete fulfillment of the promise and is not had in our lifetime on this earth. :e4e:

I've seen you and chrys talk about that before. I don't really have an argument with looking at things that way and think it makes more sense than believing there is still a line that can be crossed back and forth throughout a lifetime. I feel like there are some scriptures that counter that view but I can't recall them exactly at the moment. I might be back. :e4e:

 

[IMJerusha]

The Jews once they left Egypt could never return, they were totally in God's hands in the wilderness. Their prosperity or woe depended upon believing the promise but even if they fell in the wilderness does not mean they lost their inheritance for inheritance is passed on to the children. They were God's people and so are we when we are saved...if we go back we place ourselves in danger, we may even die but our salvation which like the Jews depends upon the promise is assured.

And the Jews HAD to leave Egypt for the Egyptians themselves drove them out. That's how God works...freewill is an illusion.

Really, free will is an illusion, eh? Notice what you posted which I highlighted and something which a lot of people talk about...going back under the Law. How can anyone do that without free will? And, uh, you need to think about what you post because you just posted against Yeshua. Israel broke God's Covenant using what you say is an illusion, hence the necessity for Yeshua, not a replacement of God's Law but our assurance of salvation if we obey and remain faithful in Him.

 

[LoveOfTheTruth]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 10th, 2013 05:00 AM

toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they change their mind about wanting to be with God in heaven?

"If salvation was but a mindful decision, was such a one saved?"

Is not salvation of, in, by and thru "The Power that raised The Messiah from among the dead"?

Most certainly "i" didn't save me!

And what of the "IF you continue in The Faith......."?

Father Help! and HE does......

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

 

[IMJerusha]

"If salvation was but a mindful decision, was such a one saved?"

Is not salvation of, in, by and thru "The Power that raised The Messiah from among the dead"?

Most certainly "i" didn't save me!

And what of the "IF you continue in The Faith......."?

Father Help! and HE does......

But you still have to ask!...our most important act of free will.
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." Matthew 7:7 "Help" is assistance in doing, not doing it for (unless it's coming from the Obama administration) so the "IF" is not negated. And the Power that raised Mashiach from the dead is the same that brings one to repentance.

 

[unknown]

"Your sins be forgiven you. Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall you."

Jesus must have thought it possible.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Really, free will is an illusion, eh? Notice what you posted which I highlighted and something which a lot of people talk about...going back under the Law. How can anyone do that without free will? And, uh, you need to think about what you post because you just posted against Yeshua. Israel broke God's Covenant using what you say is an illusion, hence the necessity for Yeshua, not a replacement of God's Law but our assurance of salvation if we obey and remain faithful in Him.

Free will is an illusion, to those who are under a delusion!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

"Your sins be forgiven you. Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall you."

Jesus must have thought it possible.

Have you even thought about the idea that, Christ
was telling that person, not to continue, in THAT
particular sin? Just a warning from Christ to stop
committing that, personally chosen sin?

 

[Tehmill]

"Your sins be forgiven you. Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall you."

Jesus must have thought it possible.

People always read hellfire...what IS up with christians? why does "lest a worst thing come upon you" have to mean hell?

 

[Tehmill]

Really, free will is an illusion, eh? Notice what you posted which I highlighted and something which a lot of people talk about...going back under the Law. How can anyone do that without free will? And, uh, you need to think about what you post because you just posted against Yeshua. Israel broke God's Covenant using what you say is an illusion, hence the necessity for Yeshua, not a replacement of God's Law but our assurance of salvation if we obey and remain faithful in Him.

I said freewill is an illusion, bondage is what it really is...did you have freewill before you came to Christ? did you not sin because you were BOUND to sin? how then were you free?...you had a will but it was bound...that's what got you into trouble right?

 

[glorydaz]

Have you even thought about the idea that, Christ
was telling that person, not to continue, in THAT
particular sin? Just a warning from Christ to stop
committing that, personally chosen sin?

Yep. And after much chastening, that particular act will no longer be a problem, but, rest assured, another area will be brought into the light. That's what it means our being conformed....we're a work in progress.


Colossians 3:8-10
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

 

[godrulz]

Not one person is going to get to heaven and say "I changed my mind, I want to go to hell and be gone from him" instead.

Death seals destiny. The debate is whether it is possible before death, not after death.

 

[godrulz]

As if you have not been shown right here, thousands, literally thousands of times. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. You are going to hell.

I affirm justification/grace/faith truths. If POTS/OSAS is a condition of salvation, you will have to prove this since most Christians do not make it so because the Bible does not make it so. Calvinists are OSAS. You don't even think they are saved. Most of the rest of the Body of Christ rejects OSAS, but not justification in Christ. So, if I am going to hell, then only you, Calvinists, and some TOL inconsistent Open Theists will be in heaven. Virtually all evangelicals will be in hell. You are a retard.

 

[IMJerusha]

Have you even thought about the idea that, Christ
was telling that person, not to continue, in THAT
particular sin? Just a warning from Christ to stop
committing that, personally chosen sin?

Ooh, a "chosen" sin? Interesting. Careful there, GM, you're treading all over your OSAS. Since when does a new man choose sin? In other words, we have the free will to choose sin or remain in Yeshua.

 

[godrulz]

Judas is that rare...are there any others in the NT? Judas was never saved.

Judas was saved. Jesus did not call a devil to his inner circle, call him an apostle alongside other apostles, chose him in wisdom after praying to the Father, etc. He BECAME a betrayer and later a son of perdition, but he was not always so (read the chronology and verb tenses). He is an e.g. of apostasy, while Peter is an e.g. of someone who was restored rather than dying in unbelief like Judas.

Church history is littered with genuine Christians who fell away, just as Scripture warns about. These warnings would not be there if it was impossible to forsake Him.

It is simply begging the question to say that someone who falls away was never saved (some vs all). The argument is like saying someone who divorces was never married. Grow a brain.