I've noted my moral position, but I'm not arguing among the Body about duty. I'm making a purely rational and secular case to capture the attention and support of those who don't believe as we do, but who nevertheless have a stake in the outcome.
toldailytopic: Objectively, when does a person become a person? At conception? Or at
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Does not Jesus define personhood when he states that you are to love God with all your heart, soul and mind? Seems to me there are 3 parts there. Heart is the essential organ of the material body. Mind is the matrix of thoughts that are resident in the brain. Soul is that eternal part of God which inhabits the body to experience life in this material realm and grow closer to God from which it came. The question oft ignored is when does the soul enter the body.
Quincy
New member
Isn't any body a soul, as it is animated?
PureX
Well-known member
Well, you know what they say about the word "assume".
I do not believe the soul enters the body until just before or after birth. I do not believe the soul is created by the earthly mother and father.
I see. Yes, we have to be practical about it, but sometimes we can get lost and see ourswelves in a fully secular way if we don't remind ourselves of what we stand for.
Cheers,
Fertilization
ThePresbyteers
New member
If God knew you before you were born then conception goes beyond the egg and the sperm.
Why stopping at the egg/sperm meeting?
Why stopping at the egg/sperm meeting?
ThePresbyteers
New member
I believe the breath is more of an animated event that causes men to be alive. The spirit might be separated from the animated matter. In China, they talk about sinking something heavy ( Qi ) in the lower part of the body so the spirit can rise to the head. This tells me that there are two and not the same. I think breath isn't the same as man's spirit. I think breath is what makes the living alive or at least participating in the time event. I think the time event has something to do with vibration. Maybe an animated vibration is better that saying the force or the Qi. One Chinese Grandmaster monk claims the spirit lives in the kidney. That the oddest thing I've heard but the kidneys could be the softest organ meaning mostly water. Water is the softest element on Earth.
I think at conception, the spirit lived long before the egg and sperm met.
Because "before you were born" does not mean "before you were conceived." God knowing us from the moment of fertilization is Him knowing us before we are born.
ThePresbyteers
New member
I somewhat believe mankind are puppets meaning God uses strings to move us. That includes making the sperm dance and swim. The sperm had a plan and I believe it was God's plan like the sperm had no other choice. Thats what I think Captive/slaved wills means.
I don't want to be God's robot but I have no other choice but to be one. I chose Jesus but I didn't really chose Jesus on my own. God chooses me but at the same time I chose Him. We're too much into time and space and never pay much attention to the mysteries of God as explained in the Bible.
Man don't explain robot/puppets right and ignorant on what Omnipresence mean.
The spirit was stored somewhere else at another time. While the first egg cell split into two, it said, "I've been here before and always will".
I'm not surprised you'd rather believe you're a puppet than take responsibility for your own actions. You're a coward.
A question about balancing the rights of two persons:
Does a mother have the right to terminate a zygote?
Does a zygote have the right to terminate its mother?
Does a mother have the right to terminate a zygote?
Does a zygote have the right to terminate its mother?
WoundedEgo
New member
Jeremy
Jeremy
Jeremy was sanctified because he was firstborn:
Exo_13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
So he was sanctified to God before birth.
Jeremy
Jeremy was sanctified because he was firstborn:
Exo_13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
So he was sanctified to God before birth.
ThePresbyteers
New member
You can call me whatever you like but I still won't be quiet on God's truths.
The actual idea proponents of "free will" have is there is no God we have to obey. We can do whatever we damn well want.
And -behind that- the idea that humans are "basically good". ( Lighthouse only needs to read the daily news to know THAT isn't true. )
Our Creator says not to murder (Exodus 20:13). Yet, when we want to commit abortion we call it "Pro-Choice". Just a matter of our free will.
Never occurs to any of 'em that -by arranging opportunities for abortion- the Lord also arranges His opportunity to exercise justice against us murderers.
Even the Devil glorifies God.
When the Most High permits (even arranges opportunity for) evil, it's opportunity to punish evil, as well. To show how much He hates sin.
And -since we aren't "basically good"- don't take much to arrange THAT.
"A dog barks when his master is attacked.
I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth
is attacked and yet would remain silent."
John Calvin
WoundedEgo
New member
So, he arranges opportunity for sin... to show how much he hates it?
Flipper
New member
I am skeptical that personhood is as clearly an open-and-shut question as the prolifers on this thread would have us believe.
If you are prolife and you disagree, I'd be interested to hear your answer to the to the following scenario.
You happen to be at a clinic that specializes in in-vitro fertilization, when suddenly the fire alarm goes off. Before you run for the emergency exit, you have an opportunity either save a tray full of 10,000 recently fertilized eggs, or a newborn child.
If you picked the baby, I'd be very interested to hear the rationale for that decision. If you picked the tray of fertilized eggs, I'd find it rather hard to believe you.
If you are prolife and you disagree, I'd be interested to hear your answer to the to the following scenario.
You happen to be at a clinic that specializes in in-vitro fertilization, when suddenly the fire alarm goes off. Before you run for the emergency exit, you have an opportunity either save a tray full of 10,000 recently fertilized eggs, or a newborn child.
If you picked the baby, I'd be very interested to hear the rationale for that decision. If you picked the tray of fertilized eggs, I'd find it rather hard to believe you.
The answer shouldn't be that difficult. From conception, a human belongs to the human race. Humans by definition are people.