toldailytopic: Libya's Muammar el-Qaddafi is dead, discuss.

[WizardofOz]

If this is how Gadhafi's life ended, the rebels who did this to him are animals, no better than he was.

Bloody images of Gadhafi's last moments raised questions over how exactly he died after he was captured wounded, but alive. Video on Arab television stations showed a crowd of fighters shoving and pulling the goateed, balding Gadhafi, with blood splattered on his face and soaking his shirt. Gadhafi struggled against them, stumbling and shouting as the fighters pushed him onto the hood of a pickup truck. One fighter held him down, pressing on his thigh with a pair of shoes in a show of contempt. Fighters propped him on the hood as they drive for several moments, apparently to parade him around in victory. "We want him alive. We want him alive," one man shouted before Gadhafi was dragged off the hood, some fighters pulling his hair, toward an ambulance. Later footage showed fighters rolling Gadhafi's lifeless body over on the pavement, stripped to the waist and a pool of blood under his head. His body was then paraded on a car through Misrata, a nearby city that suffered a brutal siege by regime forces during the eight-month civil war that eventually ousted Gadhafi. Crowds in the streets cheered...... ......Also killed in the city was one of his feared sons, Muatassim, while another son — one-time heir apparent Seif al-Islam — was wounded and captured. An AP reporter saw cigarette burns on Muatassim's body.

 

[lightbringer]

I was talking about Libyans.

barbie seems happy that lots of them died and not so many white people.

Not surprising considering barbie's reputation for being a racist.

:idunno: OK, still doesn't change my attitude. :idunno:

Better them than Americans!

 

[lightbringer]

If this is how Gadhafi's life ended, the rebels who did this to him are animals, no better than he was.

Bloody images of Gadhafi's last moments raised questions over how exactly he died after he was captured wounded, but alive. Video on Arab television stations showed a crowd of fighters shoving and pulling the goateed, balding Gadhafi, with blood splattered on his face and soaking his shirt. Gadhafi struggled against them, stumbling and shouting as the fighters pushed him onto the hood of a pickup truck. One fighter held him down, pressing on his thigh with a pair of shoes in a show of contempt. Fighters propped him on the hood as they drive for several moments, apparently to parade him around in victory. "We want him alive. We want him alive," one man shouted before Gadhafi was dragged off the hood, some fighters pulling his hair, toward an ambulance. Later footage showed fighters rolling Gadhafi's lifeless body over on the pavement, stripped to the waist and a pool of blood under his head. His body was then paraded on a car through Misrata, a nearby city that suffered a brutal siege by regime forces during the eight-month civil war that eventually ousted Gadhafi. Crowds in the streets cheered...... ......Also killed in the city was one of his feared sons, Muatassim, while another son — one-time heir apparent Seif al-Islam — was wounded and captured. An AP reporter saw cigarette burns on Muatassim's body.

Poor guy, he only had 40 years to do his thing! What goes around comes around!

 

[drbrumley]

If this is how Gadhafi's life ended, the rebels who did this to him are animals, no better than he was.

Bloody images of Gadhafi's last moments raised questions over how exactly he died after he was captured wounded, but alive. Video on Arab television stations showed a crowd of fighters shoving and pulling the goateed, balding Gadhafi, with blood splattered on his face and soaking his shirt. Gadhafi struggled against them, stumbling and shouting as the fighters pushed him onto the hood of a pickup truck. One fighter held him down, pressing on his thigh with a pair of shoes in a show of contempt. Fighters propped him on the hood as they drive for several moments, apparently to parade him around in victory. "We want him alive. We want him alive," one man shouted before Gadhafi was dragged off the hood, some fighters pulling his hair, toward an ambulance. Later footage showed fighters rolling Gadhafi's lifeless body over on the pavement, stripped to the waist and a pool of blood under his head. His body was then paraded on a car through Misrata, a nearby city that suffered a brutal siege by regime forces during the eight-month civil war that eventually ousted Gadhafi. Crowds in the streets cheered...... ......Also killed in the city was one of his feared sons, Muatassim, while another son — one-time heir apparent Seif al-Islam — was wounded and captured. An AP reporter saw cigarette burns on Muatassim's body.

Lady MacDeath et al.
Posted by Lew Rockwell on October 20, 2011 07:36 PM

It wasn't only Hillary, Obama, Bush, and the rest of the power elite that cheered the murder of Gaddafi today. CNN showed the tape of his being beaten bloody before he was shot in the head, again and again and again, for our delectation. It was a tribal killing, ordered by the US, and savored by the establishment as well as the perps. He was a dictator, but more so than Obama? More so than the fundamentalists the US has brought to power, so as to cause chaos? As in Iraq, ethnic and religious minorities may look back on the dictator's rule as a golden age. This isn't a bunch of classical liberals who've come to power. Certainly anything that has Hillary--who looks more and more like one of the Three Witches every day--chortling over blood and scheming for more, can't be good news.

 

[Vaquero45]

For the same reason that crime is repulsive: it causes a person to suffer. I'm not saying that people should never be punished, but punishment should only ever be administered (reluctantly) because of the need for a deterrent, not because someone who's inflicted suffering 'ought' to suffer themselves.

That contradicts itself.
Someone ought to be punished in your own words, because their own suffering will teach them about inflicting suffering on others.

If you're actually taking joy in somebody suffering and being killed then your attitude's worse than quite a lot of murderers'. At least a lot of murderers feel remorse about what they've done.

Murderers kill innocent people, and rightly should feel remorse. Killing a murderous monster like Qaddafi is no load on anyones conscience. It's a happy day when that freak leaves us.

 

[drbrumley]

That contradicts itself.
Someone ought to be punished in your own words, because their own suffering will teach them about inflicting suffering on others.



Murderers kill innocent people, and rightly should feel remorse. Killing a murderous monster like Qaddafi is no load on anyones conscience. It's a happy day when that freak leaves us.

That's right, Killing a murderous monster like Qaddafi is no load on anyone's conscience. But killing him after he has given up, without trial, that should be on everyone's conscience.

 

[Nick M]

Poor guy, he only had 40 years to do his thing! What goes around comes around!

Those that live by the sword die by it, justly or unjustly.

That's right, Killing a murderous monster like Qaddafi is no load on anyone's conscience. But killing him after he has given up, without trial, that should be on everyone's conscience.

16 “But of the cities of these peoples which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, 17 but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, just as the LORD your God has commanded you, 18 lest they teach you to do according to all their abominations which they have done for their gods, and you sin against the LORD your God.

That isn't what God wants when dealing with vile people like him.

 

[The Barbarian]

The Libyans, from news reports, are generally unhappy. They wanted him on trial, and all his evil laid out in court.

Lightbringer writes:

OK, still doesn't change my attitude.

Don't mind Sot; he's still smarting from getting caught faking a quote and putting it in his sig.

Turns out he did it, because I made a reference to an unnamed racist and he thought it was about him. His stuff about "brown people" is kinda funny. He thinks of Arabs as "brown" when most Iraqis and Libyans are Caucasian. But that's Sot being Sot. He honestly doesn't know better.

 

[drbrumley]

The Libyans, from news reports, are generally unhappy. They wanted him on trial, and all his evil laid out in court.

Yep, Jesus even said by the mouths of two or three witnesses can a man be found guilty.

 

[Ktoyou]

He might as well, the US paid 80% of NATO operations in Libya...which is well over 100B dollars. :think:

Big problem for the US, always paying the bill.

Why? Read Roman history.

 

[some other dude]

Don't mind Sot; he's still smarting from getting caught faking a quote and putting it in his sig.

Turns out he did it, because I made a reference to an unnamed racist and he thought it was about him.

Silly barbie. He's either being feeble or dishonest. He's been told repeatedly that I assumed he was referring to himself and so added an excerpt from his post (what he dishonestly calls "faking a quote") to my signature line.


His racism is evident on this thread, as it is elsewhere on this site.

 

[sky.]

The world is a better place because he is gone. I wonder where he is?

I look for the Muslim brotherhood to pop up soon or maybe Russia.

 

[drbrumley]

Thanks Justin.

You could almost hear the sigh of relief coming from Western capitals as news of Gadhafi’s unceremonious death spread around the world. Apparently captured alive, as this video shows, he was almost immediately killed by his captors, who then dragged his body through the streets of Sirte, which had been the last loyalist holdout. That a US drone first attacked Gadhafi’s convoy, and so gave the rebels the opportunity to make short work of him, is a telling detail. Odds are that NATO was tracking him, and in communication with rebels on the ground: whether they gave the direct order to off the Libyan leader matters little. What matters is that only God will judge him, and the trial will be private. The idea of Gadhafi in the dock at the International Tribunal in the Hague, testifying to his dealings with Western bigwigs over the years, is not something our leaders looked forward to.​

 

[rexlunae]

Thanks Justin.

You could almost hear the sigh of relief coming from Western capitals as news of Gadhafi’s unceremonious death spread around the world. Apparently captured alive, as this video shows, he was almost immediately killed by his captors, who then dragged his body through the streets of Sirte, which had been the last loyalist holdout. That a US drone first attacked Gadhafi’s convoy, and so gave the rebels the opportunity to make short work of him, is a telling detail. Odds are that NATO was tracking him, and in communication with rebels on the ground: whether they gave the direct order to off the Libyan leader matters little. What matters is that only God will judge him, and the trial will be private. The idea of Gadhafi in the dock at the International Tribunal in the Hague, testifying to his dealings with Western bigwigs over the years, is not something our leaders looked forward to.​

I suppose the day couldn't end without a conspiracy theory. I'd rather have seen him on trial, but better this than still alive and at large. Given the composition of the forces on the ground, this outcome seemed almost preordained, so I don't think you need to imagine shady dealing to explain it.

 

[some other dude]

... a US drone first attacked Gadhafi’s convoy...

Without the approval of Congress. :think:

The idea of Gadhafi in the dock at the International Tribunal in the Hague, testifying to his dealings with Western bigwigs over the years, is not something our leaders looked forward to.

:think:


I have often wondered why Congress was content to let Bammy circumvent the Constitution on this.



btw brum, did you see this one?

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77350

 

[Frank Ernest]

Without the approval of Congress. :think:

Kaizari Obama said it wasn't a military action. I mean, it wasn't like we were attacking another government or something. Besides, Obama is CiC, so he can do anything he wants.

:think:

I wouldn't suggest it. You'll get a headache.

I have often wondered why Congress was content to let Bammy circumvent the Constitution on this.

Weak and feckless governments are kept in power by weak and feckless people (sometimes called "voters" or the "electorate.")

 

[Ted L Glines]

Nick M: "Those that live by the sword die by it, justly or unjustly."

Very true, Nick, and those who live by the dollar end up paying for it. Both Egypt and Libya are destabilized, with economies having fallen 75% (or more) each. They are estimating 156 billion aid-money needed to stabilize the two areas, and we know that the early estimates are always very low. And it is our own bankrupt economy which will be bankrolling a high % of their recovery. While we cheer the death of yet another corrupt dictator (and we certainly do), we should also be considering our part in paying the bill, and what this is doing to our own economic recovery.

Early on in his video campaign, Osama bin Laden stated his goal of bankrupting America and the World Bank. At the rate this is going, we may soon have cause to call Osama bin Laden a Prophet.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Thanks Justin.

You could almost hear the sigh of relief coming from Western capitals as news of Gadhafi’s unceremonious death spread around the world. Apparently captured alive, as this video shows, he was almost immediately killed by his captors, who then dragged his body through the streets of Sirte, which had been the last loyalist holdout. That a US drone first attacked Gadhafi’s convoy, and so gave the rebels the opportunity to make short work of him, is a telling detail. Odds are that NATO was tracking him, and in communication with rebels on the ground: whether they gave the direct order to off the Libyan leader matters little. What matters is that only God will judge him, and the trial will be private. The idea of Gadhafi in the dock at the International Tribunal in the Hague, testifying to his dealings with Western bigwigs over the years, is not something our leaders looked forward to.​

He might want to rethink this photo op.

 

[The Barbarian]

Sot is outraged:
I have often wondered why Congress was content to let Bammy circumvent the Constitution on this.

Weak and feckless governments are kept in power by weak and feckless people (sometimes called "voters" or the "electorate.")

Presidents have routinely defied the War Powers Act as unconstitutional. So far, Congress has never called them on it.


Mr. Boehner had demanded that Mr. Obama explain his legal justification for passing the deadline. On Wednesday, Brendan Buck, a spokesman for Mr. Boehner, said he was still reviewing the documents, adding that “the creative arguments made by the White House raise a number of questions that must be further explored.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/us/politics/16powers.html?pagewanted=all

i.e. "We're on really thin ice with this one, and I don't want to appear weak and ineffective against Obama again."

 

[Vaquero45]

That's right, Killing a murderous monster like Qaddafi is no load on anyone's conscience. But killing him after he has given up, without trial, that should be on everyone's conscience.

He got as fair treatment as he gave. I don't care in the slightest way that he might have surrendered at the last moment.
As for a trial, do you suspect he was innocent?