toldailytopic: Jesus divides (Mt 10:34-36). Has Jesus divided you from another? (via

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 1st, 2010 10:31 AM

toldailytopic: Jesus divides (Mt 10:34-36). Has Jesus divided you from another? (via @ericsideabasket)

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
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[tetelestai]

toldailytopic: Jesus divides (Mt 10:34-36). Has Jesus divided you from another? (via @ericsideabasket)

Yes

I have family members that won’t talk to me because I see homosexuality as a sin.

They say I am a fundamentalist Christian wacko full of hate.

They equate my view of homosexuality with the view the south had on blacks. They say I am no different than a Ku Klux Klan member.

They support “gay rights”, and are advocates for “gay marriage”. They tell me I am full of hate for opposing homosexual marriages.

 

[Nick M]

Tet, it sounds to me like they hate you. I guess all the non Christains are every bit the hypocrite the atheists say we are.

 

[Buzzword]

Yay for paradox between Scripture and Testimony!

Jesus has connected me with people of all religious pursuasions, and through them shown me that the little doctrinal box I occupied in my teens and early adult life wasn't big enough to contain Him or even myself.

He showed me through them that my greatest witness is my ability to listen and emotionally bond with those with whom I may disagree on a number of issues I'd previously thought essential.

He has shown me that names mean little, catchphrases mean less, and that His truth and the fullness of His being cannot be contained in one individual's opinions or beliefs or point of view.

 

[Krsto]

Several members had left our small tight-knit church and as I talked to some of them I noticed a pattern, one of which was they all believed the pastor was a liar so I interviewed everyone who had left to see what was going on and started interviewing people I knew had left the other churches in the fellowship of churches to see if the problems I saw weren't fellowship wide. I was doing what the two elders should have been doing but they seemed to think their job was to protect the pastor rather than the sheep so they didn't find out why nearly half the long-standing families left the church. The pastor caught wind I was talking to those who had left and the next service I went to one of the elders met me at the door to tell me I wasn't welcome there anymore. So I guess one could say Jesus used those in error to separate the one who was being responsible from those who refused to be so.

 

[MrRadish]

My father's side of the family is predominantly Christian, and on the relatively infrequent occasions we see them we get on just fine. If the subject of religion happens to come up - which it seldom does - we both just accept we have different opinions, admittedly with that air of vague disappointment on their part, characteristic of many Christians I've met when they find I'm agnostic. But given their beliefs that's completely understandable

Generally I find that if you're willing to be polite and friendly to others, they tend to be polite and friendly back, although obviously extreme differences in worldview can sometimes limit the depth of one's interactions with them. That said, some of my best friends at Uni are Christians - we get on because we accept that our beliefs are just those: ours. We respect each other enough to accept we've just come to different conclusions.

 

[chrysostom]

Yes

I have family members that won’t talk to me because I see homosexuality as a sin.

did they ask you
or
did you go out of your way to let them know?

 

[Town Heretic]

toldailytopic: Jesus divides (Mt 10:34-36). Has Jesus divided you from another?

From the scoffers and anti theists in posture, intent and context, from the confused in clarity and from the searching in conclusion. Add to that the multiplication of joy, hope and mercy I experience on a daily basis.

That's sum doing...:think:

And did I mention that we both love pi. :chew:

 

[Psalmist]

toldailytopic: Jesus divides (Mt 10:34-36). Has Jesus divided you from another? (via @ericsideabasket) ​

I'm not sure I understand the topic question, but I'll post anyway, just to get poked,
or :mock: Psalmist, at I guess.

Well this is my not sure day, it just hasn't been going as I expected; I had both ends meeting in the middle and somebody moved one of them :mmph:

I'm not sure what to post, but divided (Mrs Psalmist still talks with her sister once in awhile) our with in-laws; over stuff like or because we have cable, Mrs Psalmist uses the NIV (don't go there), I didn't go to regular seminary (Moody Bible Institute extension school). And we help with 10 cent Bingo at the healthcare center.

Maybe distanced, not divided, with some of our older grandchildren, concerning tats, overindulging, and questionable friends. The dilemma, how much strain or distance, until there is a division, five of them are not saved. I believe their eternal soul is the greater matter.​

 

[Non-Excluvistic]

Yes

I have family members that won’t talk to me because I see homosexuality as a sin.

They say I am a fundamentalist Christian wacko full of hate.

They equate my view of homosexuality with the view the south had on blacks. They say I am no different than a Ku Klux Klan member.

They support “gay rights”, and are advocates for “gay marriage”. They tell me I am full of hate for opposing homosexual marriages.

Is it possible that you not only disapprove but condemn them as well? I mean, you can have issues with it and not agree with it, but it should not, and does not, have to be worn on your shoulders so that people feel offended by you.

I have a sister who is lesbian and she knows I do not agree with it, and neither does my family. I am a Muslim and my entire family are nothing but Christians and my sister does not feel offended by any of use, now does she have a problem coming around. That is my sister until the day I die and I will take care of her if she needed my help, regardless of her personal preferences--and that goes for anyone else gay, lesbian or not--they are still people. We all sin everyday and God sees sin as sin, gay or not--Christians included.

Just because you feel it is wrong and disapprove does not mean you have a right to talk condemnation and hell to them and quote them scriptures.

We are the judged and not the judders. I'm sure God is more than capable of handling these things without us running around with signs that say, "God Hates Homosexuals" or "Gays Will Go to Hell"--which would make you hateful and no different than other bigots.

People who grow up in our society full well know what religion teaches about homosexuality or have already heard it before, and does not need us preaching to them 24/7. I told my sister about it once and what I felt, as did my family, and we have not brought it up again, she has free-will and so do we.

Religious people always talk about free-will but if given the chance, would make sure no one had free-will, unless it fitted their religious views--we seen this numerous times throughout history. It seems that it is not enough for us religious people that we used our fee-will, we want to also use and direct other peoples free-will.

This is why people get offended and call religious people fundamentalist--they really mean to say annoying or irritating.

Let us remember that we are the judged and not the judgers.

 

[Ktoyou]

No one in my family would say anything all that confront to me and at work, when I was strong, most persons only knew I was an Episcopalian, yet my granddaughter has a silly mocking attitude sometimes that irks me. Then there is the texture imbedded, “I am big and you are small” attitude while she can be most helpful, she seems to laugh at the idea she can pick me up and carry me around and on these hot days plop me in the pool. I think it is more a message to her mother? Anyway, she is a good kid, even if she has the attitude that ‘Happy Porpoise” whatever her name is, has?lain:

 

[tetelestai]

did they ask you
or
did you go out of your way to let them know?

I never bring it up unless they do.

For example, at Thanksgiving a family member brought up how mad they were that gay people cannot donate blood. She went on about how this is discrimination and the fault of fundamental Christians that stuff like this exists.

So, I gave my opinion.

I do not look for arguments, and never bring up stuff like homosexuality unless others bring it up.

I am not a zealot.

 

[tetelestai]

Just because you feel it is wrong and disapprove does not mean you have a right to talk condemnation and hell to them and quote them scriptures.

See my above post.

Who said I talked condemnation and hell?

I DO NOT bring up the topic unless someone else does. If another family member, or anyone else makes a "fundementalist Christian wacko" statement, then I will defend Christianity whether they like it or not.

My next door neighbors are Muslim, we get along just fine. They give us food from their holidays, my kids play with their kids, they invite us to their high school graduations and we invite them to ours.

Never once have I said anything like "Muhammad is a false profit", nor have they ever said anything negative about Jesus to me. They come over and talk to me while I put up my Christmas lights, and I got their mail when they went to Saudi Arabia for their once in a lifetime religious pilgrimage from Mecca to Medina.

There have been a few times that we talked about Abraham Issac and Ishmael, but for the most part they do not know that much about the Koran or the Old Testament. They remind me of Christians who go to church on Easter and Christmas only and don't know the difference between Moses and Paul.

My point is that I don't go around condemning people. However, if I am asked a question I give an honest answer and don't care who may be offended by what I say.

If Christianity is attacked in my presence, I will defend it.

"God Hates Homosexuals" or "Gays Will Go to Hell"--which would make you hateful and no different than other bigots.

God does hate homosexuality, but everyone that is a homosexual will not go to hell.

Only people that do not believe in Jesus Christ will go to hell. I'm sure there will be many believers who have engaged in homosexuallity in Heaven.

If your lesbian sister lived in a Muslim country she would be dead. They would either bury her with just her head showing, and then stone her to death, or they would hang her from the highest building in the town.

Here is a statement you will not like:

There will be no Muslims in Heaven.

 

[Non-Excluvistic]

See my above post.

Who said I talked condemnation and hell?

I DO NOT bring up the topic unless someone else does. If another family member, or anyone else makes a "fundamentalist Christian wacko" statement, then I will defend Christianity whether they like it or not.

My next door neighbors are Muslim, we get along just fine. They give us food from their holidays, my kids play with their kids, they invite us to their high school graduations and we invite them to ours.

Never once have I said anything like "Muhammad is a false profit", nor have they ever said anything negative about Jesus to me. They come over and talk to me while I put up my Christmas lights, and I got their mail when they went to Saudi Arabia for their once in a lifetime religious pilgrimage from Mecca to Medina.

There have been a few times that we talked about Abraham Issac and Ishmael, but for the most part they do not know that much about the Koran or the Old Testament. They remind me of Christians who go to church on Easter and Christmas only and don't know the difference between Moses and Paul.

My point is that I don't go around condemning people. However, if I am asked a question I give an honest answer and don't care who may be offended by what I say.

If Christianity is attacked in my presence, I will defend it.



God does hate homosexuality, but everyone that is a homosexual will not go to hell.

Only people that do not believe in Jesus Christ will go to hell. I'm sure there will be many believers who have engaged in homosexuallity in Heaven.

If your lesbian sister lived in a Muslim country she would be dead. They would either bury her with just her head showing, and then stone her to death, or they would hang her from the highest building in the town.

Here is a statement you will not like:

There will be no Muslims in Heaven.

And in one post you show why your family likely does not like you, as you mentioned before. Maybe your family is exactly right about you being a fundamentalist wacko. I can vouch for them in the short display I just seen from you--you lack a rationality.

See my first sentence in the above post I first did? It ended with a "?" that set the tone for what I was saying. I ASKED, DO YOU, GO AROUND, PREACHING CONDEMNATION TO THEM


Your readiness to be contrary and defensive to a non-aggressive post, is an example of your normal mindset that makes them not like you.

Of course you preach damnation and judge. You displayed that by being typical and attacking Islam on a thread that is not about Islam. No one even attacked Christianity, you can't find one place I said anything against Christianity.

Thanks for answering my question, you do have the fundamentalist bigot mindset.

BTW, about who will be in heaven and who won't. I am not concerned with my afterlife, the decision is not mine, and it definitely isn't yours, and that that is best part about it. If you believe what you claim and do things just to try and guarantee your way into heaven, then maybe you should be worried and concerned about if you'll be in heaven--the Pascal Wager mindset is pretty immoral in itself.

You don't know the definition of the word Muslim?

Muslim: one who submits to the will of God.

There won't be anything but Muslims in heaven by definition of the word--you included--if you actually do submit to his will that is.

 

[MaryContrary]

lain:

Anyway...

Interestingly, I cut myself off from my family in bitterness a long time ago. It's since becoming a Christian that I've begun to touch base with a begrudging one or two here and there. Still some real bitterness there, though. But at least I've had opportunity to express that in an assertive manner with a few of them. Even learned some of my assumptions about some things in the past were wrong.

Can't say I'm about to tra-la-la off to the next family barbecue or anything but there's been some mending. A little. Somewhat. And at least the possibility of more in the future.

Where as I would have counted it joy to watch them all burn in a fire once upon a time.

 

[tetelestai]

You displayed that by being typical and attacking Islam on a thread that is not about Islam. No one even attacked Christianity, you can't find one place I said anything against Christianity.

I said that God does hate homosexuality (the act not the actor), to which you said:

which would make you hateful and no different than other bigots.

Since you determined that I am hateful and no different than other bigots, then I figured it wouldn't change anything by me telling you my views on Islam.

Like I said, I get along fine with my Muslim neighbors, but if they ever asked me what I thought of Islam, I would tell them that I see it as an evil false religion, and that Muhammad was a false prophet.

Same thing for homosexuality. I don't care who asks me what I think, I tell them it doesn't really matter what I think, it's what God thinks about homosexuality, and God does not condone it.

Don't you think that Muslims already know what Christians think of them, and Christians already know what Muslims think of them?

 

[Non-Excluvistic]

Yay for paradox between Scripture and Testimony!

Jesus has connected me with people of all religious pursuasions, and through them shown me that the little doctrinal box I occupied in my teens and early adult life wasn't big enough to contain Him or even myself.

He showed me through them that my greatest witness is my ability to listen and emotionally bond with those with whom I may disagree on a number of issues I'd previously thought essential.

He has shown me that names mean little, catchphrases mean less, and that His truth and the fullness of His being cannot be contained in one individual's opinions or beliefs or point of view.

Second that.:thumb: One Ocean many rivers!

 

[Non-Excluvistic]

I said that God does hate homosexuality (the act not the actor), to which you said:



Since you determined that I am hateful and no different than other bigots, then I figured it wouldn't change anything by me telling you my views on Islam.

Like I said, I get along fine with my Muslim neighbors, but if they ever asked me what I thought of Islam, I would tell them that I see it as an evil false religion, and that Muhammad was a false prophet.

Same thing for homosexuality. I don't care who asks me what I think, I tell them it doesn't really matter what I think, it's what God thinks about homosexuality, and God does not condone it.

Don't you think that Muslims already know what Christians think of them, and Christians already know what Muslims think of them?

"Don't you think that Muslims already know what Christians think of them, and Christians already know what Muslims think of them?"

The answer is NO, because I don't judge people and assume they feel any certain way other than what they show me--I am not prejudice, nor am I a bigot--maybe you should try rising above such low standards of dealing with people. And with a statement like that you wonder why your family compares you to the old racist who didn't like blacks. You are literally showing why they think this about you, and you still don't get it.

Once again you post and give another example of why your family thinks you are a fundamentalist wacko--judge much?

I didn't figure anything, I asked you and gave some examples of what religious people do that cause us to be labeled as fundamentalist. You read and saw what your heart wanted to in my post, I didn't imply or staple any of your mentioned accusations onto you.

You ever heard that saying: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

You should have taken that advice.

 

[Quincy]

My uncle that's a Christian is always apologizing to everyone else in the family for the reasons they don't want to be a Christian. That's causes some major division, especially with my dad. My dad hates religion and anything associated with them, to the point that he locked my uncle out one Christmas when he came over dressed up like Santa Clause to bring presents.

My cousin(not from that uncle) and I are the only people in the family that will talk to the guy or visit him. The weird thing is he can't understand why we would, but we tell him he is our uncle. We don't see him as a Christian, but just our uncle and we love him no matter what. He thinks we're crazy and that we should be against him also, but he does like our company. He likes to hear about what the family is into. Go figure, he isn't getting rid of us just because of his Jesus.

 

[tetelestai]

I didn't figure anything, I asked you and gave some examples of what religious people do that cause us to be labeled as fundamentalist. You read and saw what your heart wanted to in my post, I implied or asserted any onf your mentioned accusations at you.

You ever heard that saying: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

You should have taken that advice.

Who is "us"?

This thread is about Jesus dividing us (Christians) from others.

IMO, Jesus divides me from Muslims because Muslims do not believe He is the Son of God, not to mention the false prophet Muhammad that Muslims obey.

You and I have nothing in common when it comes to Jesus. We ("us") are not religious pals. Your Koran teaches that I am an enemy of Islam, and my Bible teaches that your Koran is a false gospel.

Therfore, my faith in Jesus Christ will always divide me from you and every other Muslim on the planet. I'm ok with that.