toldailytopic: Is space exploration worth the expense for our country?

[Yazichestvo]

In the short term, the space program may seem costly and of little benefit, but in the long term I think it's necessary. Expanding our reach to outer space is the logical direction that mankind must eventually go in. We may as well get started as early as possible. Keep in mind that we already benefit from a lot of technology we previously developed with NASA.

 

[Bright Raven]

No, what do you expect to find out there anyway.

 

[rocketman]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for July 8th, 2011 09:52 AM

toldailytopic: Is space exploration worth the expense for our country?

Today I was one of the fortunate people able to watch the historic last launch of our Space Shuttle fleet, Atlantis STS 135 and it was incredibly exciting and incredibly sad at the same time. I am rather biased on the subject but, I would say yes, it is worth the expense because it gives back in so many ways. Our space program has given us everything from velcro to hydrogen fuel cells while employing people directly and not directly associated with the space program. It is a source of national pride and achievement which all Americans can take credit for, it is the best of who we are as a people. I hope that we are able to find a way to restore our place in spaceflight soon as buying rides for our astronauts from the Russians is not only embarassing but, costly at $50 million per person per ride to the ISS. We are Americans and we can do better than that...

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Farewell Atlantis...:sigh: Farewell

 

[The Berean]

I hope that we are able to find a way to restore our place in spaceflight soon as buying rides for our astronauts from the russians is not only embarassing but, costly at $50 million per person per ride to the ISS. We are Americans and we can do better than that...

The SpaceX Dragon says :wave2:

 

[some other dude]

No, what do you expect to find out there anyway.

We expect to find what's out there. :idunno:

 

[frostmanj]

I appreciate both rocketman's and rexlunae's points. The space program led to a great deal of our innovation over the last 50 years (computers, composites, ceramics, etc.). I think that The Berean makes an excellent point though. Private investment and enterprise will continue much of this work, and in many cases is moving faster than NASA in many areas. It may be time for the government to step aside and let the private enterprises take over.

 

[rocketman]

The SpaceX Dragon says :wave2:

From what I have been hearing Spacex may not be the only one in the hunt to take the Shuttles place. There are talks of Sierra Nevada Aerospace putting their "Dreamchaser" atop of an Atlas V and Boeing is trying to purchase a ride on Delta IV for it's capsule so, let the competition begin.

DeamChaser atop an Atlas V
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View attachment 16490

 

[The Berean]

From what I have been hearing Spacex may not be the only one in the hunt to take the Shuttles place. There are talks of Sierra Nevada Aerospace putting their "Dreamchaser" atop of an Atlas V and Boeing is trying to purchase a ride on Delta IV for it's capsule so, let the competition begin.

DeamChaser atop an Atlas V
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View attachment 16490

Check out my previous post with all the photos. I have two shots of the composite fuselage of the Dream Chaser atmospheric test vehicle. It's good to see competition among the alt.space companies to create a new manned space vehicle.

 

[some other dude]

Suppose a private enterprise successfully established a colony on the moon, Mars, whatever.

They'd have the right to claim it in their name, wouldn't they?

 

[The Berean]

Suppose a private enterprise successfully established a colony on the moon, Mars, whatever.

They'd have the right to claim it in their name, wouldn't they?

That is an interesting question. I believe there is international law already in place to address this but I am not sure. At least for the Moon, governments cannot "claim" land on the Moon. There is a wiki page on Extraterrestrial Real Estate.

 

[Buzzword]

That is an interesting question. I believe there is international law already in place to address this but I am not sure. At least for the Moon, governments cannot "claim" land on the Moon. There is a wiki page on Extraterrestrial Real Estate.

I think SOD was referring to the COMPANY claiming whichever heavenly body they land on.
Similar to the basic premise of the Red Faction videogames, in which a corporation basically owns Mars, and thus is free to oppress any and all people who live there.

One of many new sociopolitical questions which will no doubt arise in the future.


I think a renaissance in space technology is on its way, similar to the revolution in computer technology which took place after the private sector got started on it in the mid-20th century.

 

[rocketman]

Check out my previous post with all the photos. I have two shots of the composite fuselage of the Dream Chaser atmospheric test vehicle. It's good to see competition among the alt.space companies to create a new manned space vehicle.

Sorry I have not went through the whole thread yet, I just got back to my hotel from the launch and work all day, I'll catch up later. I agree though, it is good to see competition.

 

[The Berean]

I think SOD was referring to the COMPANY claiming whichever heavenly body they land on.
Similar to the basic premise of the Red Faction videogames, in which a corporation basically owns Mars, and thus is free to oppress any and all people who live there.

One of many new sociopolitical questions which will no doubt arise in the future.


I think a renaissance in space technology is on its way, similar to the revolution in computer technology which took place after the private sector got started on it in the mid-20th century.

Well a company's "claim" on any extraterrestrial land would only be "valid" or enforceable if it is recongnized by a government body, right?

 

[Buzzword]

Well a company's "claim" on any extraterrestrial land would only be "valid" or enforceable if it is recongnized by a government body, right?

Maybe.

But if the company simply starts using their privately-owned vehicles to ship hordes of employees to basically colonize, say, an asteroid, they don't really require the recognition of an Earth government.

It would be different if they used NASA shuttles to get the project started. That would obviously require the consent of the American government.

But as space tech companies grown, and become able to mass-produce their vehicles and equipment without government money, I foresee the need for government recognition falling to the wayside.

"We found it, we colonized it, therefore it's ours no matter what you guys back on Earth say."
Kinda the same mentality taken by some of the early American colonists regarding the treaties between England and the Native tribes.

 

[rexlunae]

I appreciate both rocketman's and rexlunae's points. The space program led to a great deal of our innovation over the last 50 years (computers, composites, ceramics, etc.). I think that The Berean makes an excellent point though. Private investment and enterprise will continue much of this work, and in many cases is moving faster than NASA in many areas. It may be time for the government to step aside and let the private enterprises take over.

I don't think the image of the government standing aside is quite right though. Note the NASA logo on the dream chaser models posted by The Berean. As private enterprises enter space, it seems to me that the role of government shifts but doesn't disappear. We might outsource the design of spacecraft, and any number of other work, now that some of the heavy initial lifting was done by government workers directly, but the government presence in space will probably increase as an absolute quantity as it decreases in proportion to private activities. This kinda parallels the development of the Internet from a government and university project sponsored by DARPA into a large commercial network.

 

[The Berean]

Maybe.

But if the company simply starts using their privately-owned vehicles to ship hordes of employees to basically colonize, say, an asteroid, they don't really require the recognition of an Earth government.

Yes, they do. Launching any rocket from Earth into space requires government approval.

It would be different if they used NASA shuttles to get the project started. That would obviously require the consent of the American government.

This applies to private companies as well.

But as space tech companies grown, and become able to mass-produce their vehicles and equipment without government money, I foresee the need for government recognition falling to the wayside.

Can a new airline company just start flying airplanes without government approval? No, it cannot. Just like how the airline industry is highly regluated by goverment, space travel will also.

"We found it, we colonized it, therefore it's ours no matter what you guys back on Earth say."
Kinda the same mentality taken by some of the early American colonists regarding the treaties between England and the Native tribes.

Ummm no...those early American settlers had deeds to their property did they not? The American West was opened up to homesteaders by the US government. Shoot, when the Pilgrims landed in North America they had to get permission from the English government to travel to North America.

 

[Nick M]

Space exploration and the space program aren't interchangable terms. Exploration, mostly a waste of time. There is nothing to visit or gain. Using space for some things is obviously useful.

 

[Buzzword]

Yes, they do. Launching any rocket from Earth into space requires government approval.


This applies to private companies as well.


Can a new airline company just start flying airplanes without government approval? No, it cannot. Just like how the airline industry is highly regluated by goverment, space travel will also.



Ummm no...those early American settlers had deeds to their property did they not? The American West was opened up to homesteaders by the US government. Shoot, when the Pilgrims landed in North America they had to get permission from the English government to travel to North America.

Well dang, rip me to shreds why doncha?
Okay, American West /= space.

Though the airline company part seems to be a bad comparison, given that a national government holds claim to its airspace.
Do we act as though all points upward from a region on a spinning planet belong to that region?

I still believe the "rules" regarding space travel will soon be rewritten as companies rely less and less on governments for finances and materials.

Especially if a particular company has enough money to basically buy a third-world country for the purposes of using their airspace to launch private spacecraft.

 

[Nick M]

Yes, they do. Launching any rocket from Earth into space requires government approval.


This applies to private companies as well.

There is always a customer for the private launch.

 

[Flipper]

The Space Elevator may be one possible alternative. It is being worked on right now.

When will Wonka share the secrets of his technology?