toldailytopic: Is it irresponsible as a parent to allow your child to attempt to sail

[WizardofOz]

Jordon Romero , now 13, from Big Bear, Calif., made it to the top of the world's tallest mountain, 29,035 foot Mt. Everest.

13. Everest. I don't recall any outrage there.

He made it, good for him. Was it irresponsible for his parents to allow him to make the climb?

I don't think so.

Same applies here, but if the father was after a TV deal, then I'd say it is a bit irresponsible given his motives.

But, if the person is trained, equipped, mature and able then age has little to do with it.

 

[The Berean]

Jordon Romero , now 13, from Big Bear, Calif., made it to the top of the world's tallest mountain, 29,035 foot Mt. Everest.

13. Everest. I don't recall any outrage there.

He made it, good for him. Was it irresponsible for his parents to allow him to make the climb?

I don't think so.

Same applies here, but if the father was after a TV deal, then I'd say it is a bit irresponsible given his motives.

But, if the person is trained, equipped, mature and able then age has little to do with it.

Read my first post, Wiz. Having a 13 year old climb Mt. Everest is just stupid. Did he carry his own equipment (tents, food, supplies, bottled oxygen, etc.) or did daddy pay for some Sherpas to carry it up his stuff for his son? Sir Edmund Hillary and all the experienced climbers hate this kind of stuff. Oh and by the way the Nepalese government refused to give Jordan permission (citing his age as the reason) to climb Everest so his daddy had to take him to the Chinese side.

 

[Aimiel]

Allowing a 13-year-old on a climb to the peak of Mt. Everest is even more irresponsible than letting a qualified 16-year-old attempt to circumnavigate the globe.

 

[Lighthouse]

Have these parents not seen Taken?

 

[grit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 14th, 2010 10:25 AM

toldailytopic: Is it irresponsible as a parent to allow your child to attempt to sail around the world or something else similarly dangerous?

Yes, but only if allowing them to do so solo, because it should always be done in twos, after their kind, male and female, and maybe with some birds and animals and creeping things, two by two. But...

If you're going to attempt taking two of everything with you on the boat... welll...

I would recommend waiting until you're about 600 years old. Yeah... that sounds about right.

 

[kmoney]

Have these parents not seen Taken?

Or Titanic?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

The father should be put in a cell along with Richard Heene, the balloon boy's dad.

The difference here is that Richard Heene didn't actually put his son in harms way, he only acted like he did. :think: Therefore, are these parents even worse than the Heene's? :idunno:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yes, it is risky. But you and others see the risks as far greater than somebody who has been trained to evaluate those risks and deal with them.

It's risky period. For seasoned veterans it would be perilous and many testify to that during all sorts of potentially life threatening careers. They know the risks and they don't make light of them at all.

Isn't it? How many marriages end with the death of one (usually the woman) of the spouses? Sailing around the world and getting married require to completely different levels of maturity. To sail the world she requires the physical stamina to sail her vessel, and the emotional maturity to deal with long periods of being alone. On the other hand, to deal with marriage you need to know who are and be very secure in that knowledge. You need to be able to accept another person for who and what they are because you will not be able to change them. The demands of dealing with another person and kids requires much more emotional maturity than dealing with the demands of sailing around the world. That is not to say that sail solo does not require a high degree of emotional maturity, it is just that dealing with a family requires significantly more.

Do you think it's 'standard' for a marriage to end with the murder of one of the spouses?! :squint: Get a grip CM, most marriages end without the death of either! How does one prepare for prolonged periods of isolation in order to be *ready* to sail the world CM? And how can they be *ready* to not only be alone but surrounded by ever present dangers to undertake such? On the one hand you're arguing that it's ok to respect the emotional and physical maturity of a 16 year old to literally risk her life on an ocean voyage but don't respect it enough to let her make a decision regarding her own choice in partner.

So is it a double standard? Not really. It is helping your child learn to deal with the challenges and dreams and facts of life in a way that is appropriate for their age and degree of maturity.

Yes it is a double standard. If you're prepared to let your child risk her life then you should be prepared to respect her choice of partner if 'maturity' is so important a factor.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Jordon Romero , now 13, from Big Bear, Calif., made it to the top of the world's tallest mountain, 29,035 foot Mt. Everest.

13. Everest. I don't recall any outrage there.

He made it, good for him. Was it irresponsible for his parents to allow him to make the climb?

I don't think so.

Same applies here, but if the father was after a TV deal, then I'd say it is a bit irresponsible given his motives.

But, if the person is trained, equipped, mature and able then age has little to do with it.

I hadn't actually heard of it. That being said I think I think his parents were flaming morons. As TB has pointed out he would have needed a great deal of help but that still doesn't undermine the myriad dangers regardless. What next, a 5 year old swimming the channel?

lain:

 

[Son of Jack]

Have any of you been on the roadways of the United States of America where just about anybody can get licensed to drive and plenty of people putter about without one with how much actual training?:think:

Is a parent of a child who drives at the same age, solo irresponsible?

 

[Arthur Brain]

The difference here is that Richard Heene didn't actually put his son in harms way, he only acted like he did. :think: Therefore, are these parents even worse than the Heene's? :idunno:

Yes. If Heene hadn't actually being pulling a publicity stunt he would be just as guilty of being an irresponsible parent.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Have any of you been on the roadways of the United States of America where just about anybody can get licensed to drive and plenty of people putter about without one with how much actual training?:think:

Is a parent of a child who drives at the same age, solo irresponsible?

I've never been to the US so no....

Getting a driving license in the UK is pretty darn stringent

 

[Son of Jack]

I've never been to the US so no....

Getting a driving license in the UK is pretty darn stringent

I was saying that mostly tongue-in-cheek....but we are having to pass laws to discourage driving while texting in the States. Does that sound safe?:idunno:

 

[CabinetMaker]

It's risky period. For seasoned veterans it would be perilous and many testify to that during all sorts of potentially life threatening careers. They know the risks and they don't make light of them at all.

We have no evidence that she made light of the risks involved. Indeed, she had a plan in place for what to do if her boat became disabled and she lost communication. She followed that plan and is now safe because of it.

Do you think it's 'standard' for a marriage to end with the murder of one of the spouses?! :squint: Get a grip CM, most marriages end without the death of either! How does one prepare for prolonged periods of isolation in order to be *ready* to sail the world CM? And how can they be *ready* to not only be alone but surrounded by ever present dangers to undertake such? On the one hand you're arguing that it's ok to respect the emotional and physical maturity of a 16 year old to literally risk her life on an ocean voyage but don't respect it enough to let her make a decision regarding her own choice in partner.

There are several races with sail boats in the ocean that range from time trials such as the Americas Cup to intercontinental single man races that are repeatedly completed safely. The fact that a person could die while sailing in the ocean does not mean that they will die. Proper training reduces risks to manageable levels. Not eliminate risk, manage risk. Which is why you should get out of a house that is on fire and let the fire department put it out. They are properly trained and equipped to deal with the risk, you are not (assuming you are not a fire fighter. And even then you should get out if you don't have your equipment!)

I do not know how many marriages end in death. But the fact that any marriage resulted in a death means that marriage is not free of fatal risks.

This girl had enough training and experience to feel equal to the challenge. The facts in evidence right now support that she was equal to the challenge. You will have to ask her how she prepared to be isolated. It may be just as simple as her personality allowed her to be perfectly comfortable in relative isolation.

Yes it is a double standard. If you're prepared to let your child risk her life then you should be prepared to respect her choice of partner if 'maturity' is so important a factor.

You fail to see the subtitles in each of these situations. In one case, she has to deal with only herself. In the other case she be able to deal with another person. My experience has taught me that a person can be ready for monumental physical accomplishments at a relatively young age while the maturity to deal with another person in the deeply personal and intimate way that marriage requires takes several more years to develop. As a parent, it is my job to help my children learn and understand the differences.

 

[zoo22]

It would have been irresponsible for my parents to allow me to try to circumnavigate the globe alone when I was 16 (even though I'd spent a whole lot of time on sailboats). But I don't know if it was irresponsible for Abby Sunderland's parents to allow her to. Obviously, she's an extraordinary sailor. I'm inclined to say that it's not necessarily irresponsible, though in most cases it would be.

 

[GuySmiley]

We don't allow children to make decisions for themselves. A child can't sign any kind of contract. A child can't decide to move out on their own. A child can't take a vacation on their own. A child can't decide to have surgery on their own or make medical decisions on their own. Etc.

Do we consider climbing Mt Everest or sailing around the world a legitimate decision of a child. I think no. Its the parents decision. The parents should be held responsible for the outcome. If the child dies, the parents should be held responsible. If the child is sent around the world in a sailboat with no escort, and the child is hurt, that's child abuse in my opinion.

Can I leave my 7 year old in the parking lot of Wal Mart unattended for a week, just to see if he can survive this great feat? Does it make it sound better if it would be a world record?

 

[CabinetMaker]

We don't allow children to make decisions for themselves. A child can't sign any kind of contract. A child can't decide to move out on their own. A child can't take a vacation on their own. A child can't decide to have surgery on their own or make medical decisions on their own. Etc.

Do we consider climbing Mt Everest or sailing around the world a legitimate decision of a child. I think no. Its the parents decision. The parents should be held responsible for the outcome. If the child dies, the parents should be held responsible. If the child is sent around the world in a sailboat with no escort, and the child is hurt, that's child abuse in my opinion.

Can I leave my 7 year old in the parking lot of Wal Mart unattended for a week, just to see if he can survive this great feat? Does it make it sound better if it would be a world record?

She didn't make the decision by herself. She didn't steel the boat and sneak away. She had discussions with her parents and they all agreed that she could go.

 

[Arthur Brain]

We have no evidence that she made light of the risks involved. Indeed, she had a plan in place for what to do if her boat became disabled and she lost communication. She followed that plan and is now safe because of it.

I'm not talking about the girl here. I'm talking about the responsibility (or lack thereof) regarding her parents. I have no interest in criticising the child at all in this scenario as none of it is her fault. I don't deny that she had skill or training either. Nor am I saying she made light of any risk. But there were plenty of variables where no matter what plan she had followed could have easily resulted in her premature death.

There are several races with sail boats in the ocean that range from time trials such as the Americas Cup to intercontinental single man races that are repeatedly completed safely. The fact that a person could die while sailing in the ocean does not mean that they will die. Proper training reduces risks to manageable levels. Not eliminate risk, manage risk. Which is why you should get out of a house that is on fire and let the fire department put it out. They are properly trained and equipped to deal with the risk, you are not (assuming you are not a fire fighter. And even then you should get out if you don't have your equipment!)

How many of these races allow children to participate?

I do not know how many marriages end in death. But the fact that any marriage results in a death means that marriage is not free of fatal risks.

In that case you could never feel comfortable about your daughter marrying then could you? It's a ridiculous comparison CM. Getting out of bed has killed some people down the line.

This girl had enough training and experience to feel equal to the challenge. The facts in evidence right now support that she was equal to the challenge. You will have to ask her how she prepared to be isolated. It may be just as simple as her personality allowed her to be perfectly comfortable in relative isolation.

Again CM. This is not about what the child thinks. I saw an episode of The Simpsons lately where Bart intends to skateboard across the Springfield gorge. Homer ends up stopping it (with highly amusing consequences to be fair :chuckle so take the cartoon element out of this and would Homer be a responsible parent if he let it continue? In the episode Bart is an accomplished skateboarder so what's the problem? Would you let your teenager do the same?

You fail to see the subtitles in each of these situations. In one case, she has to deal with only herself. In the other case she be able to deal with another person. My experience has taught me that a person can be ready for monumental physical accomplishments at a relatively young age while the maturity to deal with another person in the deeply personal and intimate way that marriage requires takes several more years to develop. As a parent, it is my job to help my children learn and understand the differences.

No I don't. Your child may be highly emotionally mature to take relationship dynamics into account yet you won't respect that. You will however respect her decision to risk her life on a highly dangerous journey where emotional maturity would already play a distinct part in her chances of success/surviving. Double standards.

 

[Arthur Brain]

She didn't make the decision by herself. She didn't steel the boat and sneak away. She had discussions with her parents and they all agreed that she could go.

So what? The responsibility lies on the parents. If a parent agrees that their ten year old can go scuba diving on their own, and it ends up in the drowning of the child then who is at fault? The parent. No matter how many "discussions" were had.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I was saying that mostly tongue-in-cheek....but we are having to pass laws to discourage driving while texting in the States. Does that sound safe?:idunno:

Ah. We have the same in the UK. To be honest I can see the logic behind it, although I think I would have reversed it to 'texting while driving'....