toldailytopic: Is it irresponsible as a parent to allow your child to attempt to sail

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 14th, 2010 10:25 AM

toldailytopic: Is it irresponsible as a parent to allow your child to attempt to sail around the world or something else similarly dangerous?

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[Son of Jack]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 14th, 2010 10:25 AM

toldailytopic: Is it irresponsible as a parent to allow your child to attempt to sail around the world or something else similarly dangerous?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

Depends on what you mean by child. At what age, does a boy become a man, or a girl become a woman?

 

[Aimiel]

If they're trained and equipped for the journey, and emotionally 'mature' individually, I'd still be very apprehensive about allowing a child of mine to make such a journey. It's grueling on an adult, due to the hardships, isolation and loneliness involved. I don't think any child of mine would ever get my permission for such a journey. Obtaining a pilot's license, by flying solo, or other such accomplishment: depends upon the individual. Circumnavigating the globe at sixteen, just to break the record? Never.

 

[Rusha]

I've already answered this and given detailed reason on the other thread, however, in short, my answer is yes.

I realize that life is full of dangers that can befall our children, even through the ages of adulthood. However, that doesn't mean allowing them to do something that is over the top and full of danger is okay.

I would never have allowed my minor children to go to party where I knew there would be alcohol and drugs and then state "well they are mature and I trust them".

I would never allow my minor children to bicycle on a tightrope across the grand canyon even IF they trained for months on their balancing and bicycling skills.

So yep, the wide world of the ocean that is infested with sharks and other critters as well having no control over the weather conditions or the tide of the ocean is enough for me to not even consider as to why allowing a child to do this would ever be acceptable.

 

[CabinetMaker]

If your child has been trained and conditioned for the endeavor and has the maturity to deal with the challenges then no.

A responsible parent teaches and guides and encourages a child to grow into an adult. At least one way they do so is by exposing them to ever greater challenges and helping them learn from both their failure and their successes. The more they are exposed to while living with the parent, the better equipped they will be to deal with the world when the leave home.

As part of this process, the child will mature. Some will mature faster than others and will be ready at a relatively young age to take on challenges that many people will never be ready to attempt. As long as the parent has done there job as God intends for us to do it, it is not irresponsible to allow your child to attempt something others perceive as overly risky.

 

[Aimiel]

Sure glad I wasn't YOUR child. :chuckle:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

This is a tough question.

My gut reaction is to say it's horribly irresponsible for a parent to allow their child to attempt something like this however I have seen 14 and 15 year old kids drive full size race cars which is at least as dangerous as sailing around the world. One slight difference is that with racing there are safety crews at the track in case there is an accident, something that a teenager lost at sea wouldn't have.

I don't know. I guess I am still torn on this issue.

 

[Nick M]

There is a big difference between a 16 year old trained on it and an 11 year old. I don't see it being different than a 26 year old trying to do it alone. Same obsticles.

I wouldn't let my child do it, not because she is a child, because it is alone.

 

[chrysostom]

Depends on what you mean by child. At what age, does a boy become a man, or a girl become a woman?

oh no
not another
depends on what you mean

please teach your children
not
to use that phrase

 

[CabinetMaker]

Sure glad I wasn't YOUR child. :chuckle:

Since I don't live near the ocean this is not likely to be a decision I will face. However, I do sometimes push my kids to take on a bit more risk than they are comfortable with.

My youngest is in gymnastics and is uncomfortable on the beam. She hates the handstand as is evidence by the fact that she barely picks up one of her feet. I told her that she runs a bigger chance of getting hurt by holding back and pushed her to go for it knowing she might well get hurt (and hurt bad!). The result? She went from a yellow ribbon (thanks for coming) to a red ribbon (second place) in a little over two weeks.

No where near sailing around the world, I know, but if that were to become her goal, I would help her try to achieve it.

 

[CabinetMaker]

oh no
not another
depends on what you mean

please teach your children
not
to use that phrase

It is a valid phrase and needs to be used. You cannot have a meaningful discussion about anything if you are not working from a common definition. For instance, is "child" determined by their age or by the fact that they are your off-spring. Both definitions of child are valid.

 

[Aimiel]

My youngest is in gymnastics and is uncomfortable on the beam.

How old?

 

[Son of Jack]

oh no
not another
depends on what you mean

please teach your children
not
to use that phrase

What you mean??lain:

 

[CabinetMaker]

How old?

11

 

[The Berean]

It has less to do with age than with experience. There is simply no way a 16 year old has the necessary experience to sail around the world alone. And ever her parents knew this. Otherwise why have GPS, satellite phone, and Internet connection? If one wants to truly do this trip alone then do it ALONE with no high tech gadgetry, only a map, a sextant, and the stars. That means totally cut off from the world. That is a true test of sailing skill.

It's similar to what's happening to climbing Mt. Everest. in recent years. For years only the most experienced climbers, those that have spent years honing their skills on lessor, yet still challenging, mountains, attempted to climb Mt. Everest. But in recent times novice, inexperienced, and/or rich people have been seduced by this "extreme sport" mentality and want to climb Mt Everest just to brag that they did it. So they pay some Sherpa $50,000 to carry all their stuff (food, tents, water, bottled oxygen, etc.) for them and the Sherpa do all the work while the rich folks just walk. Sir Edmund Hillary and other "real" alpinist have spoken out against this in recent times.

Rich tourists blamed for Everest's decline

50 years after epic climb, Tenzing's son says the mountain has lost its spirit of adventure

Luke Harding in Kathmandu
The Guardian
Saturday 17 May 2003

The son of Tenzing Norgay, the legendary Sherpa who, along with Sir Edmund Hillary, was first to climb Mount Everest, attacked novice climbers yesterday and said that 50 years after his father's epic ascent the world's highest mountain had "lost its spirit of adventure".

Jamling Tenzing, who climbed Everest in 1996, said that his late father would have been shocked to discover that rich thrill-seekers with no climbing experience were now routinely reaching the summit.

"You still have to climb this mountain yourself with your feet. But the spirit of adventure is not there any more. It is lost," Jamling told the Guardian.

"There are people going up there who have no idea how to put on crampons. They are climbing because they have paid someone $65,000 (£40,000)." He added: "It is being very selfish. It endangers the lives of others."

Jamling's outburst comes days before Nepal embarks on elaborate celebrations to mark the 50th anniversary of Hillary and Tenzing Norgay's historic achievement on May 29 1953.

Lost mystique

Dozens of veteran celebrity mountaineers, including Reinhold Messner, who became the first person to reach the summit without bottled oxygen, have gathered in Nepal's capital, Kathmandu. Sir Edmund, 83, will arrive in Nepal next week from his native New Zealand to be guest of honour at the celebrations.

But the anniversary takes place amid widespread disquiet among the world's elite alpinists that climbing Everest has lost its mystique and become banal.

A record 25 teams will attempt to reach the 29,028ft (8,848-metre) summit this season from Nepal. About 40 teams are getting ready to set off from the Tibetan side of the mountain.

Bad weather and strong winds have so far delayed any attempts and the Chinese have closed the border to Tibet because of the Sars virus.

None the less, the first teams are likely to set off next week. Dozens of climbers are hoping to reach the top at 11.30am on May 29, precisely 50 years after the first successful ascent.

Earlier this week Peter Habeler, the celebrated Austrian climber who reached the summit in 1978 without bottled oxygen together with Reinhold Messner, said this year's Everest expeditions had "nothing to do with real adventure". Before setting off for base camp, as part of the anniversary celebrations, he declared: "Alpinists don't think very highly of them. I'm sorry to say that but it's true."

He added: "It's peanuts, climbing surrounded by Sherpas and using oxygen. You cheat the mountain. People are now racing to be the fattest, the thinnest, the youngest, the oldest up Everest. This has nothing to do with alpinism any more." (sound familiar?)

Habeler, 60, claimed that what he and Messner had done was "real adventure". "There were more people telling us it couldn't be done than there were people believing it could," he said. The Nepalese government should start promoting other lesser-known Himalayan peaks instead, he added.

Since the pioneering ascent, about 1,200 climbers have reached the summit. About 175 people have died on the slopes of Everest. The Nepalese government has invited all surviving summiteers to the celebrations and says it expects about 400 to turn up. Also likely to attend is 84-year-old Gyalzen Sherpa, one of four from the original 1953 British Everest expedition who are alive.

As part of the festivities, Sir Edmund and his wife will process through the streets of Kathmandu in a horse-drawn carriage in a repeat of their "felicitation ceremony" of 1953.

The British embassy in Kathmandu is hosting a cocktail party, and Nepal's King Gyanendra is throwing a gala dinner. The King will also make Sir Edmund an honorary citizen.

About 200 journalists from New Zealand are flying in to cover the event, and dozens of international television crews are trekking through heavy snow up to the base camp.

Nepal is hopeful that the anniversary will help boost the country's flagging tourist industry, which has been badly affected by the war between the government and the kingdom's Maoist rebels.

Three months ago both sides agreed a ceasefire. But fewer visitors are coming to Nepal than ever: tourist numbers dropped from 500,000 three years ago to a little over 200,000 last year.

The kingdom's main climbing body, the Nepal Mountaineering Association, agreed that there were now too many amateurs trying to climb Everest but said Nepal needed the money.

"Edmund Hillary recently said Everest needs a rest," Bhumi Lal Lama, the association's general secretary, said yesterday. "He's right. But we are not in a position to give Everest a rest. We will be missing out on royalties. We can't afford that."

Yesterday Jamling Tenzing said that his father, who spent most of his life in the Indian hill station of Darjeeling, where he died in 1986, would have been dismayed by the situation.

Into the unknown

Along with Sir Edmund, he had climbed the mountain wearing ordinary woollen clothes and weighed down by old-fashioned oxygen cylinders. They also carried heavy wooden logs used by the expedition for fuel, he pointed out.

"They were climbing into the unknown," he said. "People didn't even know if you could exist above 29,000ft without a pressurised suit.

"They were two people from entirely different worlds. Hillary did not speak Nepali and my father hardly spoke English. They communicated just by signs and by understanding."

He said he respected the "experienced climbers" who wanted to follow in his father's footsteps but had nothing but contempt for "Everest tourists" who had not served an apprenticeship slogging up lesser peaks.

"My father would be shocked to see what is going on. Climbing Everest should be a passion."

 

[Arthur Brain]

If your child has been trained and conditioned for the endeavor and has the maturity to deal with the challenges then no.

A responsible parent teaches and guides and encourages a child to grow into an adult. At least one way they do so is by exposing them to ever greater challenges and helping them learn from both their failure and their successes. The more they are exposed to while living with the parent, the better equipped they will be to deal with the world when the leave home.

As part of this process, the child will mature. Some will mature faster than others and will be ready at a relatively young age to take on challenges that many people will never be ready to attempt. As long as the parent has done there job as God intends for us to do it, it is not irresponsible to allow your child to attempt something others perceive as overly risky.

Oh come off it CM. It is risky! How can you possibly argue that these risks are due to 'other people's perspectives'? :squint: The dangers are obvious.
You have complete double standards on this. You'd quite happily allow your 16 year old to sail the world but you'd deny them permission to marry. If some children mature faster than others then why not respect your child's emotional maturity to make that committment? It's not like your child's life would be on the line is it?

lain:

 

[Rusha]

Abby Sunderland's dad had TV deal as girl risked life at sea

Abby Sunderland's dad had TV deal as girl risked life at sea

This article just confirms my opinion as to the wisdom and now the motivations of these parents.


By ANITA BENNETT in Thousand Oaks, Calif., and ANNIE KARNI in New York

Last Updated: 1:44 PM, June 14, 2010

Posted: 3:13 AM, June 14, 2010

Here's a dose of reality.

The father of teen sailor Abby Sunderland told The Post yesterday that he's broke and had signed a contract to do a reality show, "Adventures in Sunderland," about his family of daredevil kids weeks after she set off on her doomed and dangerous solo sail around the globe.

Laurence Sunderland, a sailing instructor who lives in the middle-class Los Angeles suburb of Thousand Oaks with his pregnant wife and seven kids, opened their home to film crews four months ago.

"The show might be about family, it might be about Abigail's trip. It's something that was shopped around," he said.

PHOTOS: SOLO-SAIL GIRL ABBY SUNDERLAND

Abby, 16, set sail last January, but got stranded in the Indian Ocean last week after storms smashed the mast of her sailboat, Wild Eyes, knocking out satellite-phone reception. The near-disaster triggered a frantic international rescue effort.

The solo voyage ran into heavy criticism for its high risk and the allegedly poor planning that put Abby in the treacherous Indian Ocean right in the middle of storm season.

Yesterday, she remained aboard the French vessel that rescued her, according to the ship's captain, and was making her slow voyage home.

The boat, Ile de la Reunion, is scheduled to transfer the teen to another ship tonight. It will take her about a week to get to land, the captain said.

Standing in the driveway outside his home, Sunderland explained the theme he envisioned for the show.

"We thought it might be a good idea if it was encouraging to kids to get out there and do things," he said. Sunderland said he didn't initially get many bites.

But Magnetic Entertainment of Studio City, Calif., is already promoting "Adventures in Sunderland" and "Abby's Journey," a documentary, on its Web site.

The studio didn't reply to e-mails and calls for comment yesterday.

Sunderland insists Abby's trip wasn't just a stunt.

The reality show was, he said, "the last thing on my mind.

"The wheels in motion for this trip had actually started when Abigail was 13 years old," he added.

Sunderland also defended his decision to let his daughter take the risky journey.

"I love my daughter dearly," he said. "I love the passion of sailing dearly, and this was about Abigail following her dream. She followed the criteria that I had set out, and met all the requirements to embark on this trip."

Yesterday, Abby blogged that she was undaunted by her misadventure, and was considering writing a book.

She called her wild ride on Wild Eyes "the best thing I have ever done or been through and I don't ever want to forget all the great times . . . or the bad ones for that matter."

The large family has long been a curiosity in the community, neighbors said. All seven children are home-schooled.

"They rarely leave their house, and they rarely talk to neighbors," local resident Brian Gonzales said.

Additional reporting by Ginger Adams Otis

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/sail_kid_parents_set_cour_for_tv_crGRuKCVBcBCM5v3s23ULK

 

[Aimiel]

The father should be put in a cell along with Richard Heene, the balloon boy's dad.

 

[kmoney]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 14th, 2010 10:25 AM

toldailytopic: Is it irresponsible as a parent to allow your child to attempt to sail around the world or something else similarly dangerous?

I haven't read much about this story but I will answer "Yes". It is irresponsible. Although that's mostly due to experience, not age. If a child has enough experience, I'd probably be okay with it, but in my opinion the only way to get enough experience to sail around the world is to do just that, sail around the world. So I would say that unless your child has done it with you or some other experts, they haven't had the experience necessary to do it alone. Once they've done it with others, then perhaps they can do it alone.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Oh come off it CM. It is risky! How can you possibly argue that these risks are due to 'other people's perspectives'? :squint: The dangers are obvious.

Yes, it is risky. But you and others see the risks as far greater than somebody who has been trained to evaluate those risks and deal with them.

You have complete double standards on this. You'd quite happily allow your 16 year old to sail the world but you'd deny them permission to marry. If some children mature faster than others then why not respect your child's emotional maturity to make that committment? It's not like your child's life would be on the line is it?

lain:

Isn't it? How many marriages end with the death of one (usually the woman) of the spouses? Sailing around the world and getting married require to completely different levels of maturity. To sail the world she requires the physical stamina to sail her vessel, and the emotional maturity to deal with long periods of being alone. On the other hand, to deal with marriage you need to know who are and be very secure in that knowledge. You need to be able to accept another person for who and what they are because you will not be able to change them. The demands of dealing with another person and kids requires much more emotional maturity than dealing with the demands of sailing around the world. That is not to say that sail solo does not require a high degree of emotional maturity, it is just that dealing with a family requires significantly more.

So is it a double standard? Not really. It is helping your child learn to deal with the challenges and dreams and facts of life in a way that is appropriate for their age and degree of maturity.