toldailytopic: How does one get to heaven?

griffinsavard

New member
Acts 16:25 About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them. 26 Suddenly there was such a violent earthquake that the foundations of the prison were shaken. At once all the prison doors flew open, and everyone’s chains came loose. 27 The jailer woke up, and when he saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself because he thought the prisoners had escaped. 28 But Paul shouted, “Don’t harm yourself! We are all here!”

29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized. 34 The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household.

Let's not pervert the simple teachings of the Gospel. The 'just shall live by faith' don't let the spiritual seducers put you under a yoke of bondage again by making you HAVE TO jump through all sorts of hoops.
When you do take Jesus as your Savior it also means you must do what he tells you to do. To find out what Jesus wants you to do, read his teachings, pray and ask, and have faith that Jesus will save you. Jesus is King and there is certain duties that all his subjects will be called upon to do. Ask God for the Spirit so He can lead you and show you how to live and serve Jesus. Watch out for there are many deceivers nowadays.....look to Jesus alone, not some religious group.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
that is not logic
and
you know I was answering a question

can you obey the two greatest commandments without fail?
and
my answer was 'no one can'
but
that doesn't mean 'no one can be saved'
and
you should know that

we have to ask God for help to love our neighbor
and
even with that help we will fail from time to time
but
we have to do the best we can

*
Do any of the apostles speak about salvation in this way?

In Germany in the last century it was totally inadequate, the church Catholic and protestant was overpowered by the evil, very few German christians were martyrs during ww2.

The best we can is not enough...and Jesus never says it to anyone. What is required is the new birth.
 

danoman31

Member
love your neighbor
So my neighbor to my left is a drug dealer, to my right is a pedophile, behind me is a murderer and across the street is a homo. You want me to love them. I think not. Would you inform the authorities of your neighbors? Would Jesus love them or would he condemn them to Hell for rejecting Him. Do you think that Jesus loved those that wanted Him crucified. Do they sit in Heaven with Him now? Will my neighbors be Heaven? If you had neighbors/friends like that and YOU say you love them, you my friend are either a liar or are better than God Himself.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
So my neighbor to my left is a drug dealer, to my right is a pedophile, behind me is a murderer and across the street is a homo. You want me to love them. I think not. Would you inform the authorities of your neighbors? Would Jesus love them or would he condemn them to Hell for rejecting Him. Do you think that Jesus loved those that wanted Him crucified. Do they sit in Heaven with Him now? Will my neighbors be Heaven? If you had neighbors/friends like that and YOU say you love them, you my friend are either a liar or are better than God Himself.

Jesus asked us to love our enemies
but
He didn't say that we couldn't rat on them
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
for that you will have to die

Yes "die unto sin and be made alive unto righteousness." 1 Peter 1

That's what God does when we recieve the new birth through faith. It is the words of Jesus, "unless a grain of wheat fall into the ground and dies it bideth alone...but if it die, it beareth much fruit."

It will be too late if we wait till we die, for the world needs this new life now.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Yes "die unto sin and be made alive unto righteousness." 1 Peter 1

That's what God does when we recieve the new birth through faith. It is the words of Jesus, "unless a grain of wheat fall into the ground and dies it bideth alone...but if it die, it beareth much fruit."

It will be too late if we wait till we die, for the world needs this new life now.

did anyone say to wait til we die?

who are you arguing with?
 

danoman31

Member
Jesus asked us to love our enemies
but
He didn't say that we couldn't rat on them
Enemies, neighbors, pick one dude. They are not the same thing. Ratting on your neighbors huh? Yeah I'm sure the neighbors were feeling loved all the way to jail. And I'm sure they were loving me as well. What did Jesus mean by neighbor? Who is my enemy? Jesus by the way didn't ask, He commanded. Why would He say that? Do you know?
 
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chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Enemies, neighbors, pick one dude. They are not the same thing. Ratting on your neighbors huh? Yeah I'm sure the neighbors were feeling loved all the way to jail. And I'm sure they were loving me as well. What did Jesus mean by neighbor? Who is my enemy?

your neighbor lives next to you
and
your enemy is the one you don't agree with
 

danoman31

Member
your neighbor lives next to you
and
your enemy is the one you don't agree with
Really? That's your answer? Sad is all I can say. No wonder youre so confused. Do you honestly think that Jesus wants you to love neighbors such as the ones I described. I'm filled with the Holy Spirit, yet I feel no love for neighbors such as that. Something must be wrong. Either I'm lying about being filled by the Holy Spirit or....?
I don't hate those that disagree with me, if that was the case I'd hate you, but I don't. I've been reading your posts here for several years and still I don't hate you. I actually kinda like you. You are misguided in your theology but thats OK, in time perhaps someone will be sucessful in enlightening you. I'm just a smart mouth peon when it comes to some of the folks on this site. :chuckle: Friends?
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Really? That's your answer? Sad is all I can say. No wonder youre so confused. Do you honestly think that Jesus wants you to love neighbors such as the ones I described. I'm filled with the Holy Spirit, yet I feel no love for neighbors such as that. Something must be wrong. Either I'm lying about being filled by the Holy Spirit or....?
I don't hate those that disagree with me, if that was the case I'd hate you, but I don't. I've been reading your posts here for several years and still I don't hate you. I actually kinda like you. You are misguided in your theology but thats OK, in time perhaps someone will be sucessful in enlightening you. I'm just a smart mouth peon when it comes to some of the folks on this site. :chuckle: Friends?

you must test the spirits
and
they should be telling you to love your neighbor
 

elohiym

Well-known member
How does one get to heaven?

In order to get to heaven one must come from heaven, just like Jesus.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Coming from heaven originally is the only way that one can literally be in the world but not of the world.

John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Whaat??? Dude you need to clean your pipe and change the water.

Your foolish comment doesn't make sense. What pipe do I need to clean and why? What water do I need to change and why? How would cleaning a pipe and changing water help me?

It appears you do not understand John 3:13 and John 17:16.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 
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elohiym

Well-known member
Forgive me for being a little slow tonight, but was the implication of Chickenman's questions that if we first think "I hope it's not my house" it means we don't love our neighbor as ourself? :idunno:

That's right. If we're putting our own good above that of our neighbor's, then we're not really loving our neighbor as ourself.

I disagree with you on this, my friend. God commands us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves, not better than we love ourselves, and that is an important distinction. Jesus magnified the law and made it honorable (Isa 42:21) when he said this:

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets (Mt 7:12).


How can you fail to fulfill the law if that is true? :idunno:

Seeing a fire in the neighborhood, I don't expect my neighbor to think about my house before his own house. God didn't give him stewardship over my house, wife, or kids. God gave him instincts to protect what God gave him stewardship over.

Naturally, if I expected my neighbor to think about my house first, based on that measure, I would think about his house first. As long as I'm not a hypocrite, expecting him to think of my house first while I think of my house first, then I am fulfilling Matthew 7:12 and the entire law ... by nature ... without being subject to or trying to follow a law.
 

Paidion

New member
The Purpose of Christ’s Sacrifice and the True Gospel


“Jesus Christ is the sacrifice for our sins!” Perhaps the majority of Christians would affirm this to be the central truth of the Christian faith. But what is the meaning and purpose of Christ’s sacrifice?

Did Christ die in order to appease the wrath of an angry God and through a legality which the Father Himself established, in order to make us positionally righteous so that we could go to heaven and escape hell? Or did Christ die in order to enable us in the process of living righteously and overcoming sin?

Let’s consider what the apostles Peter, and Paul, and the author of the New Testament letter to the Hebrews gives as the reason for Christ’s death.

I Peter 2:24 He himself endured our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

II Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Titus 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.

Heb 9:26 ...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.


Each of these reasons is essentially the same. Jesus died in order that we might come under His authority and thereby, through His enabling grace, become righteous persons. God, who wants people to be reconciled to Himself and gave His Son to make this possible. The reconciliation of the individual entails taking on the characteristics of God ---- righteousness, holiness, love, and compassion. Christ began His work by His own proclamation of the gospel of the Kingdom. He accomplished on the cross the means of making righteousness possible, and proclaimed from the cross that this aspect of His work was completed. Through His people, He continues His work in the hearts of people, reconciling them to Himself, enabling them to overcome wrongdoing, and giving to them the ministry of reconciliation. Christ’s work will not be complete until He has eliminated sin from the universe!

2 Cor 5:17-19 Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Does the fact that Jesus died to make people righteous imply that regenerated persons can be righteous now? Unequivocally — yes! But doesn’t Isaiah proclaim that all of our righteous deeds are as filthy rags? Yes, OUR righteousness deeds — OUR self-righteousness deeds, but not the righteousness deeds by which God enables us. And God’s righteousness through Christ, by whom He enables us, is not a substitute righteousness thrust upon us — a cloak of righteousness wrapped around us which covers our sin, so that when God looks at us, He is blinded to our sin and sees only Christ’s righteousness. It is a REAL righteousness which is available to us through the grace of Christ. It is a growing and developing righteousness.Paul describes it, and the way to obtain it in Philippians 3:8-14:

Indeed I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as refuse, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, based on law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith; that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

John made clear that this righteousness of God is a real righteousness which we now possess, and not a mere covering:

I John 3:7,8 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. He who practices sin is of the devil...

Are we going to let someone deceive us into believing that it is impossible to be righteous? Will we be deceived by Martin Luther who, in his A Treatise on Christian Liberty, wrote concerning the commandments of God that “it is equally impossible for us to keep any of them”? Is this idea in keeping with the character of God? Will He ask people to do that which is impossible to do? John, assumed, in the passage quoted above, that some people are indeed righteous, just as God is righteous.

Is it possible to be holy? Peter referred to Leviticus 19:2 when he wrote:

1Peter 1:15,16 ... as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct, since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

So we are to be righteous like God, and we are to be holy like God. And God does not require of us the impossible. This is the very purpose of Christ’s death.

But surely we can’t be perfect? Or can we? Jesus Himself required of His disciples— perfection:

Matthew 5:48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

So we are to be righteous, holy, and perfect like God. But surely no one is perfect! Do you know anyone who is perfect? No? Perhaps no one is yet complete or perfect, but it is God’s plan for everyone of His children to be complete. We are to be conformed to the image of Christ:

Romans 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also pre-appointed to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first‑born among many brethren.

Jesus Himself, though sinless, was not perfect or complete until He finished His course on the cross:

Heb 2:10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

Jesus knew no sin, (2 Cor 5:21), but even his sinlessness did not come about because His Deity precluded the possibility of His sinning, though doubtless His absolute unity with His Father made it possible for him to always choose righteousness. He deliberately chose the right and eschewed the wrong. It was a process; He learned obedience through what He suffered and He made the right choice every time.

Heb 5:8 Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered;

The apostle Paul, too, as indicated in the Philippians passage, knew that he, too, was still imperfect; yet he expected perfection at his personal resurrection. Paul wanted to be among the many brethren of the resurrection! But he didn’t expect this to happen automatically. He believed he had to press into it.

Philippians 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

Salvation from sin is a process which will continue until we are completed as Christians at our resurrection. Jesus was the first-born of the resurrection! Those whom Christ will save from sin, through His enabling grace, will be born into the first resurrection, and thus, complete, become Christ’s brethren! We must now be generated again (John 3) with the seed of Christ planted in us, but at the resurrection we will be born again, and will be manifested in the earth as the full-blown sons of God.

Romans 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God;

Yes, God sacrificed His beloved Son for our benefit, and Jesus sacrificed Himself for the same reason. Both the Father and the Son agreed about this, as they agreed on everything they ever did.

John 8:28 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am I, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me.

The Father and the Son have always had a total unity, a unity that no two human beings have ever had. Thus Jesus was able to say to Philip, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” John 14:9. Jesus, is the exact expression of the Father (Heb 1:3), or as the RSV puts it, “bears the very stamp of the Father’s nature”. For this reason, if you see the Son, you see the Father. Though they are two different divine Individuals, they are identical. So, by agreement, the Father sacrificed His Son for us, and the Son sacrificed Himself for our benefit, in order that we might live righteous, holy lives before God.

However, since Martin Luther’s day, and even earlier, there has been a different explanation of the sacrifice of Christ, and consequently a different gospel. It has been stated that the death of Christ has been a sacrifice to appease the wrath of an angry God, a God filled with rage about sin. Without this appeasing sacrifice, or propitiation, God in His anger would send everyone to eternal torment. But since this appeasement has been made, there is a way out. So the presentation of a different gospel approximates the following excerpt from Gustaf Aulen’s Christus Victor:

You have broken the law because it is impossible to keep it, and so you must have broken it. And because you cannot keep this impossible to keep law you will be charged with death because "the penalty for sin is death" and those are just the rules. God must have blood because the law requires it; there must be a penalty paid. The only payment that would have been enough is sacrificing someone who was the "perfect law-keeper", someone who could live a perfect life without sin. So God decided to kill his own Son on the cross to appease his legal need for blood. Now that Jesus has been sacrificed God is no longer mad at us for not doing what we can't do anyway, so we can now come and live with him forever - as long as we are grateful to him for his "mercy" to us.

We may be told that we need to “accept Christ as our personal Saviour”(a phrase that we do not find in scripture), or if we pray the sinner’s prayer, “God be merciful to me a sinner” or if we pray some other prayer of an evangelist’s composition, such as “Just pray this prayer along with me. I realize I am a sinner, and that Christ died in my place, and took my punishment for me. Father, I am very sorry for my sins (though I couldn’t have done otherwise), and I hereby accept the finished work of Christ as alone sufficient for covering my sins, so that when you look at me, You will no longer see my sins, but Christ’s righteousness. and I will become righteous in your sight and thereby qualify to go to heaven and avoid hell. Amen”.

“After praying this prayer,” you may be told, “you may not feel any different. But nevertheless, you have been saved from hell. Just accept that fact by faith, and it will be true for you.”

This gospel, so-called, does not require repentance, does not require a change of mind and heart concerning the way we are living, and does not require a turning away from our former way of life. Sometimes, we hear the word “repent” in the presentation of this “gospel”, but it is used to mean “feeling sorry for” our sins, rather than changing our minds about them and turning away from them. Implicit in this “gospel” is the concept that we cannot live consistently righteous lives even after were get saved from hell. Oh, it is thought to be a good idea to obey Christ, but it is not a necessity as far as salvation goes, because we are covered by his blood, and thus delivered from the wrath of God through Him, and because it has nothing to do with works . By contrast, the true gospel tells us that through Christ, we are delivered primarily from sin. The angel said to Joseph, “You shall call his name ‘Jesus’, for He shall save from their sins.” One might call deliverance from hell a side-effect of this process.

Is the Gospel All About Forgiveness?

A short “devotional” I once read contained the statement:

“Jesus Christ shed His blood to forgive our sin not to remove our sin”
The author had it exactly backwards. Jesus shed his blood to remove our sin, not to forgive our sin. This is obvious from the statement already quoted from Hebrews 9:26

...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Throughout the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation, it is obvious that God wants righteous people. We may well be satisfied merely with forgiveness so as to escape the Lake of Fire, but not God. He wants the very the very best for us, and He knows that we cannot dwell in total joy and health of soul until sin is removed from us.
At this point, some may object that it is obvious that salvation is all about forgiveness of sin. "But," you may object, "How about scriptures such as...?

Acts 13:38 Let it be known to you therefore, brethren, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you...

Colossians 1:14 ...in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.


There is reason to doubt that the Greek word ἀφεσις should be translated as “forgiveness”

This becomes obvious in the words of Jesus in quoting Isaiah 61:1

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed...”

The word translated as “release” to the captives (“deliverance” in the Authorized Version) is none other than ἀφεσις. Indeed, the word is used again in the phrase “set at liberty those who are oppressed.” This last phrase is literally “send away in deliverance the ones having been shattered”. Surely, Christ was not sent to forgive the oppressed, but was sent to deliver them from their oppression. Surely Christ was not sent to proclaim forgiveness to those who were unjustly imprisoned, but to proclaim their release from prison. So in addressing the men of Israel in Acts 13:38, surely Paul was saying that through Christ deliverance from sin, or release from sin was being proclaimed to them! Indeed, other than Jesus’ quote from Isaiah 61, all other instances of ἀφεσις in the New Testament relate to being delivered from sin.

Did John the Baptizer preach forgiveness of sins? According to most translations he did.

Mark 1:4 John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Looking at the record of John’s dealing with people, do we ever find that he ever mentioned forgiveness — even once? How did he deal with the multitudes that came to be baptized by him? Did he ever tell them, “Repent and be baptized, and your sins will be forgiven?” No. He warned them to bear fruit that is consistent with repentance. Here is Luke’s record:

Luke 3:7-16 He said therefore to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruits that fit repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father’; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
And the multitudes asked him, "What then shall we do?"
And he answered them, "He who has two coats, let him share with him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise."
Tax collectors also came to be baptized, and said to him, "Teacher, what shall we do?"
And he said to them, "Collect no more than is appointed you."
Soldiers also asked him, "And we, what shall we do?"
And he said to them, "Rob no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your wages."

As the people were in expectation, and all men questioned in their hearts concerning John, whether perhaps he were the Anointed One,

John answered them all, "I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into his granary, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." So, with many other exhortations, he preached good news to the people.


In examining further the true message of salvation, we may ask ourselves how we become regenerated. What do we actually do to appropriate the sacrifice of Christ so that we may have the enabling grace to do right and avoid wrong? If we repent of our way of living, submit ourselves to Jesus as Lord of our lives, and become baptized into Christ, then we shall enter the Kingdom of God now, and Christ’s enabling grace will become available to us. John the Baptizer and Jesus proclaimed the same message concerning the Kingdom of God:

In examining further the true message of salvation, we may ask ourselves how we become regenerated. What do we actually do to appropriate the sacrifice of Christ so that we may have the enabling grace to do right and avoid wrong? If we repent of our way of living, submit ourselves to Jesus as Lord of our lives, and become baptized into Christ, then we shall enter the Kingdom of God now, and Christ’s enabling grace will become available to us.
 

Livelystone

New member
Wow, long post

I scanned it and found some things that I liked.

Speaking of heaven and hell, most think they already know what each one is and what it is not.

Yet Jesus said He was in heaven while He was standing on earth (Jn.3:13) and effectively so did the apostles when they said their "conversation" was in heaven that defined their citizenship to apostles from heaven ministering to people on earth. (Phil. 3:20)

Considering the flip side of heaven, David spoke of suffering the pains of hell while he was alive on earth and that God existed both in hell and in heaven (do a search on the word "hell" in the OT.

Looking at the Garden of Eden and its definition we see that it was "heaven on earth" where Adam and Eve could remain as long as they did not sin. When they did sin they got the boot yet both them and the garden remained on earth albeit separately from each other.

To be in heaven is not as much a place as it is a relationship of righteousness with our creator that can happen in this life once the mysteries alluded to by Paul become known.

Meanwhile hell remains a given, and Jesus Christ is the only way to "living in a righteous relationship with God in heaven" that does not have to wait until after you die.

Blessings
 

Todah

New member
"Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?"

Even though there is much disagreement among men, about how to get to "heaven," so to speak, it is a loving and merciful God, who is, at the same time, a just and Holy God, who is our final Judge.

Many men feel extremely confident in certain scriptures, and that they have figured out the "exact" formula to be saved, and have boxed God in. They have decided for Him, in a sense.

Others are so focused on pleasing either a God whom can not possibly truly forgive and understand them, or think He is a bookkeeper, looking for the slightest error in their ledgers. They then begin focusing on crossing every tee and dotting every I.

I simply and truly believe that God is not going to make a single mistake in His final judgment concerning each individual.

He is not going to eliminate anyone on a technicality, nor accept a person who simply said a "sinner's prayer", even with tears, once upon a time, but whose heart was never really turned towards God, and others.

None of us is going to be able to "fool" God. Nor will we be able to persuade Him with false words, and promises. Neither will we be able to deny His overwhelming desire for love and mercy.

The people in my life whom, I have known and I think are saved, have several things in common.

They came to a point in their lives where they were broken over themselves and sin. They called out to God for mercy and to change them. They received some type of answer and some real change within themselves. {It is not exactly the same for everyone}

Though they are not perfect in word or deed, they always return to seeking and following after God and His word. They are more humble and contrite, than proud and stubborn.

I have found Catholics, Orthodox, Jews, people in every denomination, and unchurched people, whom 'I think' are God's children, and are following Him; despite errors in their own thinking, and the teaching that they are receiving.

I also see many people who are only fooling themselves. They are following a religion without a Redeemer, and are trusting in a method, or themselves, for an afterlife.

We are in a lost world and God is seeking us, and pursuing us. We must respond, when we hear His voice. He responded when He finally heard mine.
 

lighe

New member
Ro 9:16 It is not of he who wills nor of he who runs but of God who shows mercy.

In other words,,,,,, surrender!!
 
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