toldailytopic: Extraterrestrials. Do you believe there is life on other planets in th

[The Berean]

Getting back to the DEPTHX project and the moon Europa. It seems the project is still within its initial stages. Stone Aerospace has received a 3-year, $5 million research grant to develop the technology. It sounds like its at least a decade always from actually going to Europa/ But this would be an incredible project to wrk on. As an engineer who works on aerospace project this one has a very high "coolness factor". :chuckle: For those who do not know Europa has a liquid ocean beneath a sheet of ice. From what I can gather the ice is about 6 miles thick! I'm curious to know how they plan to cut through so much ice. :think:

 

[Jacob]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for December 16th, 2009 11:01 AM

toldailytopic: Extraterrestrials. Do you believe there is life on other planets in the universe?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

Simply "no".

 

[The Berean]

Satellite technology has gotten to the point where we may be able to detect extrasolar Earth-sized planets in the near future. The Kepler Mission was launched this past March. It's mission is to look for Earth-sized extrasolar planets.

Kepler Mission NASA website.

 

[Town Heretic]

Getting back to the DEPTHX project and the moon Europa....For those who do not know Europa has a liquid ocean beneath a sheet of ice. From what I can gather the ice is about 6 miles thick! I'm curious to know how they plan to cut through so much ice. :think:

As far as icebreakers go, I've found a firm handshake and a winning smile fare as well as any...lain:

Seriously, it's just that kind of day for me. :idunno:

 

[kmoney]

As far as icebreakers go, I've found a firm handshake and a winning smile fare as well as any...lain:

Seriously, it's just that kind of day for me. :idunno:

:chuckle: Maybe you should hit the sack. Hope for a better tomorrow.

 

[Sozo again]

I suspect intelligent life does exist elsewhere.

Ah... a comparative analysis.

 

[The Berean]

:chuckle: Maybe you should hit the sack. Hope for a better tomorrow.

Hey, kmo, what if extraterrestrials do if fact "crush a lot"? :think:

 

[Tyrathca]

I don't know if there's life on other planets and nobody really knows. You could try to use the Drake equation. But you can come up with numbers anywhere from 1,000,000 to 1 depending on your assumptions.

What is forgotten here is that the Drake equation was meant only to calculate extraterrestrial civilisations in our galaxy which is a very small piece of the universe. I have learnt one trick for whenever I try and contemplate the size of the universe, every time you succeed assume you're wrong and think bigger. Thus even if the odds of another civilisation in our galaxy are extremely low the odds of another civilisation in the universe can still be extremely high. Unfortunately our ancestors are unlikely to ever get to meet them due to the distance, at the very least Fermi's Paradox would seem to indicate that we are at least alone in our Milky Way though.

 

[The Berean]

What is forgotten here is that the Drake equation was meant only to calculate extraterrestrial civilisations in our galaxy which is a very small piece of the universe. I have learnt one trick for whenever I try and contemplate the size of the universe, every time you succeed assume you're wrong and think bigger. Thus even if the odds of another civilisation in our galaxy are extremely low the odds of another civilisation in the universe can still be extremely high. Unfortunately our ancestors are unlikely to ever get to meet them due to the distance, at the very least Fermi's Paradox would seem to indicate that we are at least alone in our Milky Way though.

Do you mean descendants? Just to put the vast distances involved the distance from our Milky Way galaxy to the next nearest galaxy (Andromeda) is 2,500,000 light years away. In miles that is:

14,697,500,000,000,000,000 miles

That's over fourteen sextillion miles! :jawdrop:

And that is to the NEAREST galaxy.

I believe that one day man could have the technology to travel to nearby planets in our own galaxy. But to travel to another galaxy is simply unimaginable to me.

 

[kmoney]

Hey, kmo, what if extraterrestrials do if fact "crush a lot"? :think:

I imagine we'd get along swimmingly. :chuckle:

But what if they could crush better than me? :shocked: :Clete:

 

[Nick M]

I suspect intelligent life does exist elsewhere.

Despite the fact there is zero evidence, aside from those that have fabricated something because they want there to be.

Ironic. He doesnt' believe in God with evidence, yet believes in something without evidence. We have creation and life here, but not elsewhere.

 

[TeeJay]

From 1969 to 1974, I was the man in the Pentagon who answered the phone when UFO's were reported. I worked from 1800 hrs (6 PM) until 0600 (6 AM) and if anyone spotted a UFO, they called me. I took thousands of calls from all over the USA and American possessions. I never investigated any of them; I simply took down the information and gave it to the Blue Book officer.

Some calls sounded credible to me, and worth looking into. Most I could have written off myself. The calls ranged from the amusing to the serious. One night I got a call from a man who was intoxicated. He said that a flying object was outside his house and he was about to shoot at it with his rifle. I quickly asked him to reconsider. He asked, Why? I replied, "Because it may shoot back." I kept him on the line, and he reconsidered.

I live on a ranch in Texas. One night, my wife and I saw a round UFO with lights circulating around the edge (just like in "close Encounters of the ...."). It did not emit a sound. It was moving at about 10 knots. I've am a retired Air Force master sergeant, so I had never seen a craft like that before. This was in 1985, and I was in good shape in those days. I sprinted across the pasture to get under it to see if it had any outriggng to hold up the lights that were around it. (As I sprinted off, I seem to recall my wife shouting, "You're going to get abducted by illegal aliens or something like that.") When I got under it, I could not see the stars, so it was a solid craft. It went over the trees never to be seen again.

Do I believe in ET life on other planets? No, I don't. I'm sure there is an explanation for what I saw. I think there is some Black technology that the Americans have that we are unaware of at the present time.

Many of those UFO sensational books you see on the news stands should be taken with a grain of salt. I can remember picking up a few and scanning them. The story would read that this was reported to the Pentagon at such and such a time on this date. I knew this to be a lie because I was the man who would have received he call. I had received no such call.

The main reason I believe that Earth is the only show in town is because if there is another planet with people as wicked as we are, it would be too much for God to handle.

God bless, Tom from Mabank, TX

 

[Sozo again]

Psalm 115:16

"The heavens are the heavens of the LORD; But the earth He has given to the sons of men."

When God created the heavens and the earth, He did so with a purpose. The earth was created for men, with a predetermined plan of salvation. If other life forms exist, you have a problem. No one on any other planet is related to Adam by blood, who sinned and affected all of creation.

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now." Rom 8:20-22

Jesus came in the likeness of man, not an alien. He died for all sins, for all men. Not for aliens.

No one can come to God except through Jesus.

 

[The Berean]

Speaking of Earth-like planets...

Scientists discover Earth-like, water-rich planet: study
Wed Dec 16, 1:55 pm ET

PARIS (AFP) – Astronomers have discovered a new Earth-like planet that is larger than our own and may be more than half covered with water, according to a study published Wednesday in the science journal Nature.

The so-called "super Earth" is about 42 light years away in another solar system and has a radius nearly 2.7 times larger than that of our planet, according to the study by the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics.

The discovery of the planet, called GJ 1214b, represents a "major step forward" in the search for worlds similar to the Earth, added the University of California's Geoffrey Marcy in a commentary also in Nature.

The "newfound world" is too hot to sustain life as we know it, said the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics in a statement.

Its density suggests however it "is composed of about three-fourths water and other ices and one fourth-rock," it said. "There are also tantalising hints that the planet has a gaseous atmosphere."

Its temperature is estimated at between 280 and 120 degrees Celsius (536 and 248 degrees Fahrenheit) with its host star about one-fifth the size of the Sun, according to the scientists.

"Despite its hot temperature, this appears to be a waterworld," says Zachory Berta, a graduate student who first spotted hints of the planet's presence.

"It is much smaller, cooler and more Earthlike than any other known exoplanet," he said in the statement.

An exoplanet is one outside of our solar system.

Berta said some of the water would likely be in crystalline form that exists at pressures greater than 20,000 times Earth's sea-level atmosphere.

Its temperature is much lower than that on the only similar discovery, called CoRoT-7b, which revolves around a star that is much hotter, the scientists say.

The CoRoT-7b has a density close to that of the Earth (5.5 grammes per cubic centimetre) and seems to be rocky, while the new discovery appears to be much less dense (1.9 g/cm3).

"To keep the planet's density that low requires that it contains large amounts of water," said Marcy. "It must contain a huge amount of water, roughly 50 percent by mass."

The "wild card" is the make-up of the gases on the planet, he said.

The planet orbits every 38 hours around a small, faint star that was first spotted by eight ground-based telescopes no larger than those used by amateur astronomers, the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre said.

Its relative closeness makes its possible to study it to determine its atmosphere.

"That will make it the first super Earth with a confirmed atmosphere -- even though that atmosphere probably won't be hospitable to life as we know it," said David Charbonneau who heads the research team.

How can it be "Earth-like' if it has a surface temperature between 248-536 degrees F?

 

[allsmiles]

You definitely don't need aliens to explain UFO's, but they would. Do I believe in aliens? Sure, why not? In the Fermi Paradox link that Tryathca posted it says

The Fermi paradox can be asked in two ways. The first is, "Why are no aliens or their artifacts physically here?" If interstellar travel is possible, even the "slow" kind nearly within the reach of Earth technology, then it would only take from 5 million to 50 million years to colonize the galaxy.[5] This is a relatively small amount of time on a geological scale, let alone a cosmological one. Since there are many stars older than the sun, or since intelligent life might have evolved earlier elsewhere, the question then becomes why the galaxy has not been colonized already. Even if colonization is impractical or undesirable to all alien civilizations, large scale exploration of the galaxy is still possible; the means of exploration and theoretical probes involved are discussed extensively below. However, no signs of either colonization or exploration have been generally acknowledged.

If the aliens we're talking about are incredibly more advanced than we are it would explain the mountains of anecdotal evidence pointing towards alien encounters and sightings of bizarre and unexplainable UFO's. And if this alien civilization is so advanced than we must have to face the possibility that it's advanced enough to keep itself relatively hidden from us.

Or aliens could be the cover up for a secret government program. Or there could be aliens and a secret government cover up. Who knows? :idunno:

All I know is that there's no reason to not believe we're surrounded by aliens constantly. They could be invisible, inter-dimensional, shape-shifting lizards that are completely undetectable to us humans. Why not? :chuckle:

 

[freelight]

Resources

Resources

I would say no. The vastness of the universe is but a testimony to the outpouring of the power and glory of God for our sole benefit. It is not a "waste of space".

AMR

I find this view rather 'presumptuos' (besides 'myopic') considering 'God' is an Infinite Intelligence whose creation is quite capable of extending beyond anything we could measure, there being worlds without number in universes beyond this one with varying life forms of progressing development. We dont even know the vast extent of the universe to make an 'assumption' that we are God's prized little garden, the only planet in space with sentient life on it. (but then again, it might be hard to look beyond ones entire investment in being the 'predestined lot' of God's love, to see anything beyond one's own infactuation of 'salvation' as being the sole beneficiary of God).

See:

Extraterrestrial Theology (ample resources here exploring spirituality/theology from a variety of extraterrestrial sources and perspectives, cosmic evolution, exo-politics, and more)

The Disclosure Project (continued ET studies, UFO's, government cover-ups, technology, off-planet cultures/races, etc.)


~*~*~

The Urantia Papers also give us a wonderful presentation of the cosmic over-lay and eternal purpose of Creation amid the 7 superuniverses that revolve around the nuclear Isle of Paradise, the divine center of the Grand Universe.

A being of the celestial order of 'Universal Censors' tells us -

15:2.1 Only the Universal Father knows the location and actual number of inhabited worlds in space; he calls them all by name and number. I can give only the approximate number of inhabited or inhabitable planets, for some local universes have more worlds suitable for intelligent life than others. Nor have all projected local universes been organized. Therefore the estimates which I offer are solely for the purpose of affording some idea of the immensity of the material creation.

The Seven Superuniverses (here the numbers of inhabitable worlds and organizational over-lays are presented) - this source attests to millions upon millions of inhabited and inhabitable (yet evolving to become inhabited with progressing life-forms) worlds.

15:14.5 Your world is called Urantia, and it is number 606 in the planetary group, or system, of Satania. This system has at present 619 inhabited worlds, and more than two hundred additional planets are evolving favorably toward becoming inhabited worlds at some future time.

15:14.9 Your planet is a member of an enormous cosmos; you belong to a well-nigh infinite family of worlds, but your sphere is just as precisely administered and just as lovingly fostered as if it were the only inhabited world in all existence.

* Whether you choose to believe the record from this group of celestials (or any other sources provided) is your own responsibility/choice...but the opportunity of "re-search" is ever before us.




pj

 

[drbrumley]

I find this view rather 'presumptuos' (besides 'myopic') considering 'God' is an Infinite Intelligence whose creation is quite capable of extending beyond anything we could measure, there being worlds without number in universes beyond this one with varying life forms of progressing development. We dont even know the vast extent of the universe to make an 'assumption' that we are God's prized little garden, the only planet in space with sentient life on it. (but then again, it might be hard to look beyond ones entire investment in being the 'predestined lot' of God's love, to see anything beyond one's own infactuation of 'salvation' as being the sole beneficiary of God).

See:

Extraterrestrial Theology (ample resources here exploring spirituality/theology from a variety of extraterrestrial sources and perspectives, cosmic evolution, exo-politics, and more)

The Disclosure Project (continued ET studies, UFO's, government cover-ups, technology, off-planet cultures/races, etc.)


~*~*~

The Urantia Papers also give us a wonderful presentation of the cosmic over-lay and eternal purpose of Creation amid the 7 superuniverses that revolve around the nuclear Isle of Paradise, the divine center of the Grand Universe.

A being of the celestial order of 'Universal Censors' tells us -

15:2.1 Only the Universal Father knows the location and actual number of inhabited worlds in space; he calls them all by name and number. I can give only the approximate number of inhabited or inhabitable planets, for some local universes have more worlds suitable for intelligent life than others. Nor have all projected local universes been organized. Therefore the estimates which I offer are solely for the purpose of affording some idea of the immensity of the material creation.

The Seven Superuniverses (here the numbers of inhabitable worlds and organizational over-lays are presented) - this source attests to millions upon millions of inhabited and inhabitable (yet evolving to become inhabited with progressing life-forms) worlds.

15:14.5 Your world is called Urantia, and it is number 606 in the planetary group, or system, of Satania. This system has at present 619 inhabited worlds, and more than two hundred additional planets are evolving favorably toward becoming inhabited worlds at some future time.

15:14.9 Your planet is a member of an enormous cosmos; you belong to a well-nigh infinite family of worlds, but your sphere is just as precisely administered and just as lovingly fostered as if it were the only inhabited world in all existence.

* Whether you choose to believe the record from this group of celestials (or any other sources provided) is your own responsibility/choice...but the opportunity of "re-search" is ever before us.




pj

Just curious FreeLight, what do your buddies say about global warming?

 

[freelight]

each planet develops in its own special way given their conditions......

each planet develops in its own special way given their conditions......

Psalm 115:16

"The heavens are the heavens of the LORD; But the earth He has given to the sons of men."

When God created the heavens and the earth, He did so with a purpose. The earth was created for men, with a predetermined plan of salvation. If other life forms exist, you have a problem. No one on any other planet is related to Adam by blood, who sinned and affected all of creation.

How do you know the Infinite God-Source did not create other universes thru-out eternity before this one, and that Life is evolving and developing on millions of other spheres besides ours? Also you're referring only to the planet "Earth" above,....when millions of other inhabited worlds could occupy various points of space thru-out the Grand Universe/Multiverse. Your viewpoint above also "assumes" that these other planets or worlds need to be related to 'Adam', when this is not necessary (as other worlds may have their own seeded heirarchies of life and geneologies), for other worlds may not need to be redeemed or 'saved' such as we here on Earth. This is imposing a theological supposition upon conditions beyond this planet, which is unnecessary.

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now." Rom 8:20-22

Jesus came in the likeness of man, not an alien. He died for all sins, for all men. Not for aliens.

No one can come to God except through Jesus.

Still, this is 'presuming' humanoids from other planetary systems or planets need Jesus blood to be saved. - this is only a 'theology' form-u-lated on this earth by certain believers within our religous cult-ures, and is furthermore only believed in by a one religious expression of her people (Christianity). Again,...extraterrestrial races living in other systems have their own unique cultures/history/conceptual understandings of 'God' so their 'theology' will be modified accordingly.

On that note,....I can say thru research, that most advanced ET and spiritually channeled sources do not hold to the archaric doctrine or necessity of "blood-atonement",...for they know and experience 'God' as a Universal Spirit-Reality, Infinite Love, the essence of Life and Consciousness, the guiding Intelligence and all-pervading Energy that fills, invests and encompasses the Cosmos.



pj

 

[freelight]

Just curious FreeLight, what do your buddies say about global warming?

Hi doc,

Its a mixed bag - I have'nt really investigated the phenomena beyond the 'heresay', although if its something real to be concerned about,...the Universe and Mother Earth will take care of it, as we evolve and advance as a global society. - when we co-operate with the natural and spiritual laws that make for peace, harmony and global healing....all things take care of themselves. I have complete trust in The Universe (God).

I'm sure there are current contactees with ET's with information on 'global warming'...but It hasnt been my focus of late.

What is your take on it?



pj

 

[drbrumley]

Hi doc,

Its a mixed bag - I have'nt really investigated the phenomena beyond the 'heresay', although if its something real to be concerned about,...the Universe and Mother Earth will take care of it, as we evolve and advance as a global society. - when we co-operate with the natural and spiritual laws that make for peace, harmony and global healing....all things take care of themselves. I have complete trust in The Universe (God).

I'm sure there are current contactees with ET's with information on 'global warming'...but It hasnt been my focus of late.

What is your take on it?


pj

I find it amusing.