toldailytopic: During His earthly ministry would Jesus have approved of the homosexua

Jedidiah

New member
FIRST remove the plank from your own eye, and THEN you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Dear Knight,

As you've said, Mt7:3,4,5 is about when you have a plank in your eye, and your brother has a speck in his eye.

What would the Lord Jesus Christ say if you have a speck in your eye, and your brother has the plank in his eye ?

Do you have to remove the speck from your eye before you can help your brother remove the plank from his ?

In Him,
-Jed
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
I believe that the Bible defines homosexual behavior as the apex of evil (Romans 1). It is the outward evidence of man's rejection of God.

No one who is in Christ would believe or teach that homosexual behavior is an acceptable behavior (that it is not a sin or immoral).

Jesus is God, and God has never condoned any sin as acceptable. He never will.

However, it does not take the most egregious sin to bring death. Adam's disobedience was simply eating from a tree he was told not to eat from (though the reason goes deeper). As we know, the sin of Adam brought death to all men, and the evidence that all men are dead is that all men sin.

Jesus came to give us life.

Those who have received His life, know full well that in them dwells no good thing (that is, in their flesh). Paul no longer was under condemnation for practicing the very evil he did not wish to practice. Paul did not forget that he practiced coveting. He was forever aware that he was sold into bondage to sin, and that he could not do what he wanted to do. Paul never stopped coveting, and if God held this to his account, Paul would have never been free from the law of sin and of death. However, as we know, Paul was set free from that which condemned him, having now been crucified with Christ and having been raised to new life.

A person who was a homosexual, but has been washed , has been sanctified, and has been justified in Christ and by the Spirit of God, is no longer under condemnation for having practiced evil, and like Paul has been crucified with Christ, and raised to new life.

1 Cor 6:9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul follows this statement immediately by declaring...

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? Know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? For two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


Paul tells those who once practiced evil, that though they are no longer under the law that condemns them, and that all things have become lawful for them, not all things are profitable or expedient. Continuing to practice immoral behavior such as fornication or homosexuality is unprofitable behavior. Paul reasons with them as to how those who do such thing sin against their own body ( the self-righteous won't get Paul's point here, and think that Paul is saying that if they do those things now they are sinning, when in fact he is simply making the point of how it is a sin).

Paul never stopped coveting (practicing evil), but he was no longer under the condemnation of it. However, Paul refrained from practicing those behaviors associated with his coveting because it was profitable to do so. He did not want to reap the consequences associated with evil behavior. In fact, Paul spells out to the Body of Christ the importance of abstaining from evil behavior in Romans 13, because God has given us authorities to punish those who practice it.

For those of us who have children (we have 8) you know that your children sometimes do those things that they are not permitted to do (you, as parents, are their authority). When they do what they should not do, it does not bring them condemnation from God (if they are in Christ), but it does bring them discipline or punishment from you. It is supposed to be the same principle in the country, state, or town where a person lives, as well as in a school, business, or church. Paul gives plenty of instruction on disciplining those in the church who practice evil behavior. However, evil men (who claim to be "Christians", but are in fact, just religious and self-righteous), attempt to bring those who should be disciplined for evil behavior back under condemnation with God.

No Christian would ever refer to homosexual behavior as acceptable behavior. He, like Paul, would see himself as practicing the very evil he does not wish. Refraining from this behavior takes discipline, just as it did for Paul to not be mastered by his coveting. It is also evil behavior when authorities remove punishment from those who practice homosexual behavior, abortion, etc., because it not only removes the fear factor, but takes away the purpose and intent of the Law to condemn so that men will turn to Jesus to be set free.

This was a very good post S0Z0, it was really confirmation of how I personally feel concerning this matter. :thumb:
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear Knight,

As you've said, Mt7:3,4,5 is about when you have a plank in your eye, and your brother has a speck in his eye.

What would the Lord Jesus Christ say if you have a speck in your eye, and your brother has the plank in his eye ?

Do you have to remove the speck from your eye before you can help your brother remove the plank from his ?

In Him,
-Jed
Yep.... if you are cheating on your wife you have no place to judge adulterers. Therefore FIRST you should STOP cheating on your wife and THEN you will be able to rightly judge adulterers.

Paul was very frustrated with Christians who couldn't/wouldn't judge and it compelled him to write....

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 1 Cor 6:2-3
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
Barbarian asks:
So your argument is that He doesn't mind gays, just gay pride parades?

( I could understand that; I'd feel a lot better about gays, if they didn't have those parades.)

g.o. suggests:
Mark 7:20-23
20And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Yep, He says homosexual behavior is sinful, but He seems a lot more concerned about the stuff you mentioned; He spends a lot more ink on those than on homosexuality.

Makes sense to me.
 

MaryContrary

New member
Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
Barbarian asks:
So your argument is that He doesn't mind gays, just gay pride parades?

( I could understand that; I'd feel a lot better about gays, if they didn't have those parades.)

g.o. suggests:


Yep, He says homosexual behavior is sinful, but He seems a lot more concerned about the stuff you mentioned; He spends a lot more ink on those than on homosexuality.

Makes sense to me.
How many of those things do we have parades in the street celebrating? And how many are listed as death penalty crimes in the Mosaic law? Maybe the measure is more than the ink.
 

WizardofOz

New member
How many of those things do we have parades in the street celebrating? And how many are listed as death penalty crimes in the Mosaic law? Maybe the measure is more than the ink.

Drunk rebellious offspring are everywhere! You round them up and I'll grab some stones.

Deal?
 

eameece

New member
Do you have a double standard?
Do you think people criticizing murderers are going against what Jesus said?

Yes. Judge not. We have caesar to take care of those who break the law. Respect the law; it comes from above. I'm in favor of laws against murder. I am not in favor of laws against homosexual behavior.

No person is a "murderer." There are people who commit the sin of murder.
 

eameece

New member
You are blind.
It IS a bit hard seeing around that speck!
Matthew 7 is a instruction manual on HOW TO JUDGE. It's a step by step guide.

FIRST remove the plank from your own eye, and THEN you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Matthew 7 is very clear: judge not; period. Turning his words around to make Jesus ask people to judge, justifies your own unwillingness to do what he said.
eameece, do you ever love your neighbor enough to remove the speck from your brother's eye?
What I do is irrelevant. I am not a saint.
I do speak the truth, as much as I am given to see. If that is helpful, I am glad.
Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 1 Cor 6:2-3
Paul goes on in this chapter to say that we have the law, and we are subject to it; and that to do the right thing is the way to the kingdom. That's what the phrase you quoted means, and that's what I have said as well. Then he makes the greatest tribute to love in the scriptures, in chapter 13.

Judging is not the purpose of our life or our role in it. Jesus' commandment was love. Matthew 22:36-39

The world will not be, and does not need to be, judged. It needs love. We have the law to take care of misconduct, and we have the spiritual law to guide us to the right.

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."

John 12:47
 
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eameece

New member
Dear Knight,

As you've said, Mt7:3,4,5 is about when you have a plank in your eye, and your brother has a speck in his eye.

What would the Lord Jesus Christ say if you have a speck in your eye, and your brother has the plank in his eye ?

Do you have to remove the speck from your eye before you can help your brother remove the plank from his ?

Anyone want to bet that Knight does not have a speck in his eye? Or myself? Or anyone?
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
Barbarian asks:
So your argument is that He doesn't mind gays, just gay pride parades?

( I could understand that; I'd feel a lot better about gays, if they didn't have those parades.)

g.o. suggests:
Mark 7:20-23
20And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.


Barbarian observes:
Yep, He says homosexual behavior is sinful, but He seems a lot more concerned about the stuff you mentioned; He spends a lot more ink on those than on homosexuality.

Makes sense to me.

How many of those things do we have parades in the street celebrating?

So it is about the parades for you people. O.K.

And how many are listed as death penalty crimes in the Mosaic law?

Hmm... murder, adultery, fornication, blasphemy, among others. Letting a dangerous ox run lose and kill someone. Some of those are an abomination, like eating bacon.

Is there a point here?

Maybe the measure is more than the ink.

O.K. so He's a stickler for animal husbandry.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
I'm in favor of laws against murder. I am not in favor of laws against homosexual behavior.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.​

Men engaging in sexual acts with other men commit a sin worthy of death.

Leviticus 19:17
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.​

Anyone that does not rebuke someone committing that sin hates that person and wants them to die.

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.​

Anyone that hates another person so much that they will allow that other person to continue committing a sin worthy of death without attempting to rebuke that person is murdering that person through silence.
No person is a "murderer." There are people who commit the sin of murder.
A murderer is defined as a person, so you appear to be unable to use your God given ability to reason.
murderer
MUR'DERER, n. A person who in possession of his reason, unlawfully kills a human being with premeditated malice.​
 

genuineoriginal

New member
So it is about the parades for you people. O.K.
The parades are celebrating not only their refusal to repent but their refusal to even acknowledge that they are sinning. There is nothing more to it than that.


Luke 13:2-5
2And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.​

 

zippy2006

New member
Either God doesn't approve of their lifestyle but they are saved regardless, or God doesn't approve of their lifestyle and they are lost because they do not cease from sin. Take your pick.

This is an interesting corollary for those who believe that Jesus disapproves of homosexuality. :thumb:
 

The Barbarian

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Banned
The parades are celebrating not only their refusal to repent but their refusal to even acknowledge that they are sinning. There is nothing more to it than that.

I'd like to believe you think so, but your unwillingness to accept that homosexual behavior is a serious sin on a par with many others, no worse, no better, suggests an agenda apart from the Christian take on it.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
I'd like to believe you think so, but your unwillingness to accept that homosexual behavior is a serious sin on a par with many others, no worse, no better, suggests an agenda apart from the Christian take on it.

Your attempts to claim homosexual behavior is not any different than eating bacon shows that you are not capable of the level of rationality that is needed to make that kind of judgment.
 

The Barbarian

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Banned
g.o. misses the point, yet again:
Your attempts to claim homosexual behavior is not any different than eating bacon...

Is yet another of your imaginary opinions you want me to accept as my own. I'm just pointing out what little validity your "strongest condemnation" has.

If you were rational, you'd be most concerned about the sins that God expresses the most concern over. But for some reason, homosexuality has your fascination, instead.

I'm just noting that it's a personal issue for you, not what God has to say about it. It's a sin, but no different than any other sin of lust. I agree with you about the parades, though. It would probably be better if they didn't do them. Stirs up the closeted homophobes.
 

eameece

New member

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.​

Men engaging in sexual acts with other men commit a sin worthy of death.
Fortunately we don't live in a theocracy like you religious right types want. Maybe you should try Saudi Arabia; you might like it better there.

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.​

Anyone that hates another person so much that they will allow that other person to continue committing a sin worthy of death without attempting to rebuke that person is murdering that person through silence.
The passage does not say what you say it does.

People who have the real consciousness of eternal life do not commit murder. But people who have the wrong idea about eternal life, sometimes do.
A murderer is defined as a person, so you appear to be unable to use your God given ability to reason.
murderer
MUR'DERER, n. A person who in possession of his reason, unlawfully kills a human being with premeditated malice.​
People are not defined by their actions. I am not what I do. People who murder break the law and need to be dealt with accordingly.
 

eameece

New member
The parades are celebrating not only their refusal to repent but their refusal to even acknowledge that they are sinning. There is nothing more to it than that.

Homosexuality is a valid choice, not a sin. Sex is only a sin when those involved abuse people in some way. Love, the golden rule; those are the commandments. Not outdated rules in the history/mythology book of a non-Christian people that committed horrible acts of genocide, and sometimes continue to do so and refuse to make peace with their neighbors.
 
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