PureX
Well-known member
I do believe that some phenomena exists that we living humans refer to as "ghosts", but exactly what that phenomena is, I have no idea. And I have no particular interest in it.
toldailytopic: Do you believe in ghosts?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Only the Holy Ghost.
PyramidHead
Active member
Hard to say. Do I believe in the disembodied spirits of people floating around? No. But if something similar to ghosts were to exist, even then, I'm sure it exists in a manner we couldn't comprehend and trying to define it in the same reality we're familiar with is pointless anyway
Samuel was in Abrahams bosom, Christ emptied it. The only "spiritual" entities around the living now are either angelic or demonic.
Thunder's Muse
Well-known member
I absolutely believe that ghosts exist.
Never seen one, but then again I've never seen Glee and I,believe in it.
Dena
New member
Really? You and Granite both...hmm. I admit that surprises me.
IMJerusha
New member
Whether what Samuel said to Saul came true or not has nothing to do with the OP. The fact is that Samuel was conjured and he communicated with Saul. Nothing you posted negates that or negates God's command. Why would God command us not to conjure spirits/ghosts if it could not be done?
A good reason that God commands us not to conjure spirits is because demons like to disguise themselves and it shows we are trusting in something other than God by doing it and also being disobedient to God.
Since now we are already judged as believers - having passed already from death to life, we arent in abrahams bosom when we die awaiting the final judgment. To be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord.
IMJerusha
New member
Regardless, Samuel was conjured for a chit chat.
The one time that Abraham's bosom is mentioned is by Yeshua in Luke 16:22 and that's not in all translations. Other translations have it as "Abraham's side". There is no Scriptural proof text that Yeshua "emptied Abraham's bosom." That's a doctrine based upon the belief that there was a holding place (pergatory as Catholics call it) and no one entered heaven prior to Yeshua's death. Scripture proves this wrong.
In regard to the angelic or demonic, I would say that the demonic are fallen angels so perhaps it would be more correct to state that spirits are either Godly or not.
Actually Christ is shown in the scriptures having preached to the souls in prison before He ascended into heaven. Its not based on any Catholic teaching and its also in scripture that when we are absent in body we are present with the Lord.
Tell me, if we have been judged already, why there would be a need for us to wait the final judgment since that is what part of that waiting place was for.
Show me where scripture tells us there are ghosts of people who have died roaming the earth.
IMJerusha
New member
Agreed but that does not negate the fact that ghosts/spirits exist.
You do realize that is disobedience to OT Law and if one must be obedient to that, then why wouldn't one be obedient to God's Law regarding keeping the Sabbath holy? Not to mix one thread with another but I'm sure you can understand my confusion regarding your position on the Sabbath as opposed to your position regarding conjuring as outlined in Deuteronomy. I mean really, Angel!
No one was in Abraham's bosom according to Scripture unless one reads the KJV and translations in its lineage. That's Talmudic teaching that carried into Catholicism.
IMJerusha
New member
It's widely accepted that the souls in prison Yeshua preached to were demons, not folks in Abraham's bosom, hence the words "he descended into hell" from the Apostle's Creed of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
I too believe that when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord...at least for a time.
I never made any claim to ghosts/spirits roaming the earth. God's command to not conjure spirits and John's instruction to test the spirits does and I already posted that Scripture.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3460153&postcount=16
glorydaz
Well-known member
Widely accepted? I've never even heard that suggested. Rather, it's better known that no one preceded Christ into heaven so the OT saints and all those who died prior to the cross were kept somewhere. The word "hell" is quite generic, and in the Hebrew and Greek it's known as Hades, Gehenna, and Sheol. Jesus explains it quite well in Luke 16 and the great gulf that separates the righteous from the unrighteous...Abraham's Bosom (Paradise) is very appropriate.
It comes from several verses including Jesus telling the thief he would be with him in Paradise that day. Paul talks of the lower parts of the earth, and Matthew calls it the "heart of the earth."
Ephesians 4:9
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Peter addresses it here...
1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Since the cross, we go immediately to be with the Lord.
As a matter of faith I believe in the church triumphant and the chuch suffering as neither of these groups of people are alive I therefore believe in Ghosts. That being said I am posting from a 163 year old psychiatric hospital where I work on the night shift. There ought to be a lot of ghosts here but I have not experienced any that I am totally convinced of.
There is a lot of spooky stuff. The place is heated and cooled by fluids and steam generated at a power house and the circulating pipes have "knocks" caused by trapped air bubbles. These can be very loud. All the windows are barred on the outside and even a light wind can can make the building moan. It is an old building and has its share of resident wildlife. I have met bats in the hallways, little brown bats and the larger silver backed bats, both species common to this area.
There are certain rooms which have a reputation amoung the more impressionable members of the staff as poor places to take a nap. I have tried to take a nap in one of these and it was indeed creepy experience but just because I was restless and uncomfortable, not because I saw or heard anything.
And then there my one visual experience. I was in an office with my feet up and "in a state of reduced alertness". Suddenly a man came through the open door in a rush, He was balding, portly, wearing a light grey pinstriped swallow tail coat and green and yellow tattersal checked waitcoat, plain grey trousers and spats. He had a distinctively trimed beard. I recognized him as a former medical director of the facility. From the late 18 hundreds. He seems surprised to see me, and then was gone.
I do not think I saw a ghost . I think what I experienced was a "hypnogogic hallucination" that is a hallucination at the edge of sleep. Basicly a misfiring of the dream process. But wow!
There is a lot of spooky stuff. The place is heated and cooled by fluids and steam generated at a power house and the circulating pipes have "knocks" caused by trapped air bubbles. These can be very loud. All the windows are barred on the outside and even a light wind can can make the building moan. It is an old building and has its share of resident wildlife. I have met bats in the hallways, little brown bats and the larger silver backed bats, both species common to this area.
There are certain rooms which have a reputation amoung the more impressionable members of the staff as poor places to take a nap. I have tried to take a nap in one of these and it was indeed creepy experience but just because I was restless and uncomfortable, not because I saw or heard anything.
And then there my one visual experience. I was in an office with my feet up and "in a state of reduced alertness". Suddenly a man came through the open door in a rush, He was balding, portly, wearing a light grey pinstriped swallow tail coat and green and yellow tattersal checked waitcoat, plain grey trousers and spats. He had a distinctively trimed beard. I recognized him as a former medical director of the facility. From the late 18 hundreds. He seems surprised to see me, and then was gone.
I do not think I saw a ghost . I think what I experienced was a "hypnogogic hallucination" that is a hallucination at the edge of sleep. Basicly a misfiring of the dream process. But wow!