toldailytopic: Do you believe in ghosts?

[glorydaz]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 20th, 2013 09:05 AM

toldailytopic: Do you believe in ghosts?

Well, we might be in good company if we did.

Matthew 14:26
And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

Luke 24:37-39
But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


There was a time I would have scoffed at the very suggestion, but I have to admit there are things in the spiritual realm that are beyond my understanding.

I saw what sure looked like a ghost several years back. Bear in mind, I was a firm believer there was no such thing. But, I was a renting a house with a large loft bedroom with another small room adjoining it. The small room had a sweet little window seat where I would sit and read or do crossword puzzles. One morning, I awoke early and decided to go through into the small room, and saw my daughter, or so I thought, stooped over as if rising from the chair. Her long hair hung down covering her face. I had to make a little jag to get around a closet and when I entered I didn't see her. I laughed and called her name thinking she was playing a trick on her poor old mom....looked under and behind an old hospital bed that was there....then I looked in the closet calling her name. No one was there, and there was no way anyone could have gotten out. I was spooked. My daughter was down in her bed sleeping. We also heard someone walking up there once when we were downstairs.

Later, I was talking to my landlord about dismantling that old hospital bed and having her remove some old clothes (women's dresses) that had been left hanging in the closet when we moved in. She told me an old lady had died up there during the time her cranker son and his cronies moved in on her. They had to remove two truckloads of garbage from the house before we moved in.

So, I still don't really believe in ghosts, but I did see a stooped over woman with long hair and I've never had any other sorts of visions at any time in entire life. :idunno:

 

[Lighthouse]

toldailytopic: Do you believe in ghosts?

Not according to the typical definition.

But I do believe there is something going on; I just don't know what it really is.

And I've apparently had some experiences, or so I've been told; I don't recall them.

 

[glorydaz]

Not according to the typical definition.

But I do believe there is something going on; I just don't know what it really is.

And I've apparently had some experiences, or so I've been told; I don't recall them.

Now you've piqued my curiosity.

 

[Lighthouse]

Now you've piqued my curiosity.

Thank you for using the correct "piqued." I get so frustrated when I see people use "peaked," for this purpose.

Now, as to you curiosity I am afraid I cannot explain as I do not recall the incident.

All I know is that I was with my dad at his friend's house and I went upstairs to use the rest room. When I came back down I asked him why he hadn't told me her house was haunted. That is what I have been told happened. So there were no witnesses to what I experienced that led to my question. My dad doesn't remember it either. His friend is the only one who remembers me asking.:idunno:

 

[sky.]

Whether what Samuel said to Saul came true or not has nothing to do with the OP. The fact is that Samuel was conjured and he communicated with Saul. Nothing you posted negates that or negates God's command. Why would God command us not to conjure spirits/ghosts if it could not be done?

You're the one who brought up Saul and Samuel so if it had nothing to do with the OP it's your fault. I felt that it needed to be addressed because it is an incident where God allowed a witch to participate to deliver a message to Saul. I don't think you will find another one in Scripture but if you are willing to run rampant with the idea that it should become a wide spread practice free from consequences then go for it. You obviously think its just fine. I know why it's not supposed to be done. If you don't know then look it up.

You're the one who challenged me to address it, you're the one who brought it up with no explanation as to why it was done and why God allowed it in that ONE case. So you better figure it out instead of throwing it out there and then acting like you have a legitimate question.

Why would God command us not to conjure spirits/ghosts if it could not be done?

God can do it a witch can't, got it?

 

[Silent Hunter]

Superstitious nonsense . . .

 

[Charity]

Crazy thing, Jesus is reported to have made a Holy Ghost appearance some what haunting.

Haunting? In most cases ghosts experience is related to fearful traumatic circumstances, un resolved death. Perhaps trapped, they weren't ready to leave? Or perhaps the experience alone is hope in not being separated.

The energy force so great, pure passion brings itself to visible substance, The ghost needs help to complete something? a mission that they now have lost the power to complete. The love so great? The surety manifests itself above knowledge.

 

[Granite]

Superstitious nonsense . . .

All I can tell you is that I've had experiences that are anything but common superstition. But that's the thing, isn't it--when it comes to a lot of these things all we have is anecdotal evidence. Makes these matters quite slippery.

 

[Charity]

All I can tell you is that I've had experiences that are anything but common superstition. But that's the thing, isn't it--when it comes to a lot of these things all we have is anecdotal evidence. Makes these matters quite slippery.

Trouble is, there is a rule, Jesus is the only one that's allowed to walk threw closed doors, so the front brain needs permission to believe anyone else will do this.
The privileged ghost that you must believe in,there shalt not be any other ghost before him, therefor the brain is captured an cannot freely presume any experience as powerful an enlightening.

 

[Granite]

Trouble is, there is a rule, Jesus is the only one that's allowed to walk threw closed doors, so the front brain needs permission to believe anyone else will do this.
The privileged ghost that you must believe in

You know how effective this argument is as far as I'm concerned, right?:hammer:

 

[Quincy]

Really? You and Granite both...hmm. I admit that surprises me.

Oh yea, I do. I don't think a life force can be destroyed and that when someone dies some sort of shadow of them can imprint on the surrounding area or perhaps persist intelligently. It's definitely not what people think though, Scooby Doo junk about spooks trying to scare people. Definitely not demons, either. The idea of a demon is just what superstitious people called a normal spirit imprint, kind of thing.

 

[Charity]

You know how effective this argument is as far as I'm concerned, right?:hammer:

Boo :hammer:

 

[Charity]

Oh yea, I do. I don't think a life force can be destroyed and that when someone dies some sort of shadow of them can imprint on the surrounding area or perhaps persist intelligently. It's definitely not what people think though, Scooby Doo junk about spooks trying to scare people. Definitely not demons, either. The idea of a demon is just what superstitious people called a normal spirit imprint, kind of thing.

so how about, Elijah to John the Baptist, how about if you don't rise the dead, the fathers, those wandered the desert as faithful, they without us shall not complete an faith is vain. seems there are two promises two forms of identity to identify with.

The Ghost factor, an the two vessels to one soul.
again the front brain will need permission to continue contemplating the array of words an thoughts left behind .

just for the love to understand what each ones heart was touched by back then, not really to in courage political a genders following voting an the separating of beings wedding themselves to a denomination.

 

[sky.]

A good reason that God commands us not to conjure spirits is because demons like to disguise themselves and it shows we are trusting in something other than God by doing it and also being disobedient to God.

2 Corinthians 11:14

14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.


When spiritists conjure up spirits what they are actually doing is inviting demons. They can get a result.

 

[Silent Hunter]

All I can tell you is that I've had experiences that are anything but common superstition. But that's the thing, isn't it--when it comes to a lot of these things all we have is anecdotal evidence. Makes these matters quite slippery.

You must use the best pharmaceuticals is all I can say . . .

 

[Granite]

You must use the best pharmaceuticals is all I can say . . .

:chuckle:

A multi-vitamin every morning. What a hedonist.

 

[fool]

You know how effective this argument is as far as I'm concerned, right?:hammer:

Whoa.
You understood that word salad?

 

[IMJerusha]

Widely accepted? I've never even heard that suggested. Rather, it's better known that no one preceded Christ into heaven so the OT saints and all those who died prior to the cross were kept somewhere. The word "hell" is quite generic, and in the Hebrew and Greek it's known as Hades, Gehenna, and Sheol. Jesus explains it quite well in Luke 16 and the great gulf that separates the righteous from the unrighteous...Abraham's Bosom (Paradise) is very appropriate.

It comes from several verses including Jesus telling the thief he would be with him in Paradise that day. Paul talks of the lower parts of the earth, and Matthew calls it the "heart of the earth."

Ephesians 4:9
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?


Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Peter addresses it here...

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Since the cross, we go immediately to be with the Lord.

Apparently, you've had no exposure to the Roman Catholic, Episcopal, Anglican, Methodist, Lutheran, Reformed and a smattering of other Protestant churches. That's a wide acceptance whether you wish to agree to it or not.
Anyone who believes that no one preceded Yeshua into heaven is totally ignoring Scripture. Enoch? Elijah? Moses? Abraham?...and probably many more.

NIV notes regarding 1Peter 3:18-20 --
"Three main interpretations of this passage have been suggested: 1. Some hold that in his preincarnate state, Christ went and preached through Noah to the wicked generation of that time. 2. Others argue that between his death and resurrection Christ went to the prison where fallen angels are incarcerated and there preached to the angels who are said to have left their proper state and married human women during Noah's time (cf. Ge.6:1-4; 2Peter 2:4; Jude 6). The "sons of God" in Ge. 6:2,4 are said to have been angels, as they are in Job 1:6; 2:1. The message he preached to these evil angels was probably a declaration of victory. 3. Still others say that between death and resurrection Christ went to the place of the dead and preached to the spirits of Noah's wicked contemporaries. What he proclaimed may have been the gospel, or it may have been a declaration of victory for Christ and doom for his hearers. The weakness of the first view is that it does not relate the event to Christ's death and resurrection, as the context seems to do. The main problem with the second view is that it assumes sexual relations between angels and women, and such physical relations may not be possible for angels since they are spirits. A major difficulty with the third view is the term "spirits" is only used of human beings when qualified terms are added. Otherwise the term seems restricted to supernatural beings." In 1Samuel 28, the qualifying term is "Samuel."

Paradise isn't some holding spot. Paradise is Heaven. Hades and Gehenna are words used for Hell. Sheol was the generic “you're dead” term, Pharisees believing in life after death while Sadducees did not. Hell is not the Lake of Fire. Hell is the prison for wicked people prior to the final battle and being thrown into the Lake of Fire which is the second death.

I'm not stating that the term for Paradise (Abraham's bosom or side) is inappropriate. I'm stating that Abraham went to Heaven when he died, not to some holding place. I don't hold with Rabbinic teaching found in Talmud.

 

[IMJerusha]

You're the one who brought up Saul and Samuel so if it had nothing to do with the OP it's your fault. I felt that it needed to be addressed because it is an incident where God allowed a witch to participate to deliver a message to Saul. I don't think you will find another one in Scripture but if you are willing to run rampant with the idea that it should become a wide spread practice free from consequences then go for it. You obviously think its just fine. I know why it's not supposed to be done. If you don't know then look it up.

You're the one who challenged me to address it, you're the one who brought it up with no explanation as to why it was done and why God allowed it in that ONE case. So you better figure it out instead of throwing it out there and then acting like you have a legitimate question.



God can do it a witch can't, got it?

This is silly. Yes, I brought 1 Samuel 28 to the thread as proof text for my response which is that I believe in ghosts/spirits. Whether God allowed or didn't allow Samuel to be called up had nothing to do with the OP and that was my point. As an aside, you should know, however, that there is nothing in Scripture stating that God allowed it for the purpose of getting a message to Saul. The fact is that Saul went first to God and God refused to speak with Saul. The other fact is that a witch, specifically the witch of Endor, did call up Samuel as Scripture states. At no point in time did I state that the practice of witchcraft should be practiced widely or otherwise. You've missed your calling in Salem, Sister! You would have fit in quite well with the accusers at the Salem witch trials where the twisting of plain truth cost people their lives. It was I who posted God's command to not conjure, a command I hold with. http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3460170&postcount=18

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3460170&postcount=18
The only reason I am in conversation with you at all is because I posted Scripture to disprove your statement.

 

[sky.]

Widely accepted? I've never even heard that suggested. Rather, it's better known that no one preceded Christ into heaven so the OT saints and all those who died prior to the cross were kept somewhere. The word "hell" is quite generic, and in the Hebrew and Greek it's known as Hades, Gehenna, and Sheol. Jesus explains it quite well in Luke 16 and the great gulf that separates the righteous from the unrighteous...Abraham's Bosom (Paradise) is very appropriate.

It comes from several verses including Jesus telling the thief he would be with him in Paradise that day. Paul talks of the lower parts of the earth, and Matthew calls it the "heart of the earth."

Ephesians 4:9
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?


Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Peter addresses it here...

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Since the cross, we go immediately to be with the Lord.

You are correct.

Before Christ's death on the cross the souls of the righteous were kept on the righteous side of Hades or Sheol. There was a great impassable gulf there.

When Christ preached to the spirits in Hades he spoke to the ones on the non righteous side. When Christ left he emptied the righteous side and took them to the third heaven.

"He led captivity captive"

Ephesians 4:8

In other words it was a fulfillment of prophecy that Christ would and could be the bridge to God.