toldailytopic: Columbus: good guy or bad guy?

Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for October 10th, 2011 06:38 AM


toldailytopic: Columbus: good guy or bad guy?






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genuineoriginal

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The Spanish Expulsion, 1492

In the same month in which their Majesties [Ferdinand and Isabella] issued the edict that all Jews should be driven out of the kingdom and its territories, in the same month they gave me the order to undertake with sufficient men my expedition of discovery to the Indies." So begins Christopher Columbus's diary. The expulsion that Columbus refers to was so cataclysmic an event that ever since, the date 1492 has been almost as important in Jewish history as in American history. On July 30 of that year, the entire Jewish community, some 200,000 people, were expelled from Spain.​
 

Lon

Well-known member
Kids in school are learning from their textbooks that he gets credit for making Europe know of the Americas but they are also given the picture of how European trade, including that of Columbus was less 'trade' than it was conquering and exploiting.

Was Columbus bad? Were we Amercans bad taking native lands?

Native lawsuits would suggest we are taking ownership of our former's exploitations.
 

Sherman

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This quote about the edict doesn't give any indication of Christopher Columbus feelings on the matter.

Is he a good guy or a bad guy well let's take a look.

Here is the answer you will hear from text books---->" Columbus wanted to find a trade route to the Orient. Writer Robert Hughes expressed the conventional wisdom: “Sometime between 1478 and 1484, the full plan of self-aggrandizement and discovery took shape in his mind. He would win glory, riches, and a title of nobility by opening a trade route to the untapped wealth of the Orient. No reward could be too great for the man who did that.
Incomplete answer given in a way that it is misleading. Later in his life Columbus saw his voyage in grander terms “Who can doubt that this fire was not merely mine, but also the Holy Spirit who encouraged me with a radiance of marvelous illumination from his sacred Scriptures, … urging me to press forward?” Through his voyage he felt the hand of the Holy Spirit guiding him. He spoke often of God's guidance. Columbus was responsible for first planting Christianity in the Western world. This is why there is now an all out assault on his reputation. I wouldn't call him pristine, but he isn't the devil the media today portrays.

Good guy or bad guy? I would say he is a good guy.

Good reading material on Columbus.
 
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Ted L Glines

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for October 10th, 2011 06:38 AM


toldailytopic: Columbus: good guy or bad guy?


Depends on how you judge Imperialism, and the cultural impact his explorations had on the Bahamas and the Americas.

In the context of emerging western imperialism and economic competition between European kingdoms seeking wealth through the establishment of trade routes and colonies, Columbus' far-fetched proposal to reach the East Indies by sailing westward received the support of the Spanish crown, which saw in it a promise, however remote, of gaining the upper hand over rival powers in the contest for the lucrative spice trade with Asia. During his first voyage in 1492, instead of reaching Japan as he had intended, Columbus landed in the Bahamas archipelago, at a locale he named San Salvador. Over the course of three more voyages, Columbus visited the Greater and Lesser Antilles, as well as the Caribbean coast of Venezuela and Central America, claiming them for the Spanish Empire.

Columbus' voyages led to the first lasting European contact with America, inaugurating a period of European exploration and colonization of foreign lands that lasted for several centuries. They had, therefore, an enormous impact in the historical development of the modern Western world. Columbus himself saw his accomplishments primarily in the light of the spreading of the Christian religion, and he was a candidate for sainthood in the Catholic Church in 1866.

Among non-Native Americans Christopher Columbus is traditionally considered the discoverer of America. Columbus was preceded by the various cultures and civilizations of the indigenous peoples of the Americas, as well as the Western world's Vikings at L'Anse aux Meadows. He is regarded more accurately as the person who brought the Americas into the forefront of Western attention. "Columbus's claim to fame isn't that he got there first," explains historian Martin Dugard, "it's that he stayed."

Recent views of Columbus, particularly those of Native Americans, have tended to be critical. This is because the native Taino of Hispaniola, where Columbus began a rudimentary tribute system for gold and cotton, disappeared so rapidly after contact with the Spanish, due to overwork and especially, after 1519, when the first pandemic struck Hispaniola, due to European diseases. Some estimates indicate case fatality rates of 80–90% in Native American populations during smallpox epidemics. The native Taino people of the island were systematically enslaved via the encomienda system. The pre-Columbian population is estimated to have been perhaps 250,000–300,000. According to the historian Gonzalo Fernandez de Oviedo y Valdes by 1548, 56 years after Columbus landed, less than five hundred Taino were left on the island. So we have cultural impact on steroids.

To the Americas, the explorations of Columbus brought an influx of Western Imperialism, disease, and Christianity. It would sound like he was a bad guy until you realize that this was destined to happen anyway as civilization spread outward from Europe.
 

kmoney

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Howard Zinn has a chapter on Columbus in his Peoples History of the US. It was not positive. He did some very bad things. Things I don't really hear about. I'll say he is a bad guy. But that doesn't mean it is all bad. And he really wasn't much different from the other European settlers.
 

MrRadish

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Not a lot different to other colonialists, really. There was a culture of exploration going on in Europe at the time, Columbus was just a product of it. I'd say that more of the things for which he was famous seem either immoral (claiming parts of America by displacing natives) or profit-oriented (trying to earn favour at court by opening a new trade route) than being particularly motivated by the betterment of mankind.

That said, of course, you have to bear in mind the mentality of the time. For somebody of his cultural background, spreading European culture and religion to 'savage lands' while at the same time bringing riches to his own country was considered an extremely moral thing to do. So he was in many ways doing what he thought and had been brought up to believe was best.

At the end of the day, Columbus was, like anybody else, neither a 'good guy' nor a 'bad guy'. He was just a guy.
 

The Berean

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Instead of funding his voyages on his own he had to get "government money". Sounds like a :Commie: to me. :chuckle:
 

The Berean

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Howard Zinn has a chapter on Columbus in his Peoples History of the US. It was not positive. He did some very bad things. Things I don't really hear about. I'll say he is a bad guy. But that doesn't mean it is all bad. And he really wasn't much different from the other European settlers.

I would expect a "Chiefs" fan to say that. :chuckle:
 

chrysostom

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Howard Zinn has a chapter on Columbus in his Peoples History of the US. It was not positive. He did some very bad things. Things I don't really hear about. I'll say he is a bad guy. But that doesn't mean it is all bad. And he really wasn't much different from the other European settlers.

can you share those bad things with us?
 

chrysostom

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Are you going to add to the discussion by explaining your opinion?

the burden of proof is on those who think he was a bad guy
and
need to explain what he should have done

we on the other hand accept what he had to do as being reasonable under the circumstances
 
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