toldailytopic: Columbus: good guy or bad guy?

[lightbringer]

:thumb:

Lightbringer's not thinking, he's emoting. :chuckle:

Thing is, it could have been a whole lot better for Native Americans than it was...by a really wide margin...seriously...really, really wide...but it was still better for Native Americans to have gone through everything they have since than having never met Europeans.

:think:

Well, probably. I mean, we can't know exactly what they otherwise would have gone through. But much more than likely.

I'm happy you are so certain of your answer Mary. Much more likely? By a really, really wide margin? But we can't know exactly?

I'm sure the Nations would agree, especially considering all the wonderful things non-Americans brought to them! :shut: :chuckle:

 

[fool]

Blaming Columbus for what happened to the Indians is silly, Somebody would have found America if not him.
It's not like they hid it very well, sure they tried to camoflage it by covering it with trees but lumber was one of the things people were looking for :doh:
They should have painted it to look like the Ocean.
They had paint.

 

[chrysostom]

please try to ignore the historians who are trying to rewrite history

it is what it is

I really hate questions like this

 

[MaryContrary]

I'm happy you are so certain of your answer Mary. Much more likely? By a really, really wide margin? But we can't know exactly?

I'm sure the Nations would agree, especially considering all the wonderful things non-Americans brought to them! :shut: :chuckle:

From my experience 'the nations' typically do agree, immediately before rushing on to complain about all they've suffered and everything the government owes them. A few of the wiser individuals just kinda shrug likes it's a dumb question in the first place.

 

[jwp98]

I know personally the curator of a native American museum in Illinois.
The natives he studies are now extinct. They all froze, starved, or killed each other. It appears the Europeans didn't get here soon enough.

 

[MaryContrary]

I know personally the curator of a native American museum in Illinois.
The natives he studies are now extinct. They all froze, starved, or killed each other. It appears the Europeans didn't get here soon enough.

What?! But...but...the Native Americans were all peace-loving and noble and lived in harmony with the land and stuff!

I'm going to have to tell my hubby about this.

...

Hey, did you know one of his ancestors was named...um...hm, can't remember it offhand...but it translated as something like "kills with a stick".

You know you might be on to something. :think:

 

[kmoney]

you tell me

you have him as a bad guy
so
what need he have done to be a good guy?

:think: Not murdered and displaced the Natives?

 

[kmoney]

the burden of proof is on those who think he was a bad guy
and
need to explain what he should have done

we on the other hand accept what he had to do as being reasonable under the circumstances

So the default position is that an action is good? :AMR:

What do you mean by "under the circumstances"?

 

[kmoney]

Why hold Columbus to a higher standard than the natives he encountered? :idunno:

Have you ever seen Apocalypto?

I didn't realize this thread was about the natives. lain:

I have seen that movie.

 

[kmoney]

:thumb:

Lightbringer's not thinking, he's emoting. :chuckle:

Thing is, it could have been a whole lot better for Native Americans than it was...by a really wide margin...seriously...really, really wide...but it was still better for Native Americans to have gone through everything they have since than having never met Europeans.

:think:

Well, probably. I mean, we can't know exactly what they otherwise would have gone through. But much more than likely.

What criteria are you judging your question with?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I know personally the curator of a native American museum in Illinois.
The natives he studies are now extinct. They all froze, starved, or killed each other. It appears the Europeans didn't get here soon enough.

But they did take note of some of the savagery, which appears to be quite common in non-Christian cultures.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n3p-7_Beary.html

 

[Ktoyou]

I do not have the impression Columbus was good or bad, just one looking to make a living sailing the Seas.

 

[Ktoyou]

I know personally the curator of a native American museum in Illinois.
The natives he studies are now extinct. They all froze, starved, or killed each other. It appears the Europeans didn't get here soon enough.

So what?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwp98
I know personally the curator of a native American museum in Illinois.
The natives he studies are now extinct. They all froze, starved, or killed each other. It appears the Europeans didn't get here soon enough.

So what?

Weren't you an atheist not too long ago? (Quit acting like one).

 

[MaryContrary]

What criteria are you judging your question with?

What question? It's a personal opinion. I don't typically sit down and make a listed criteria before I form one of those. But nearly all of my in-laws are NA, to one degree or another, and knowledgeable about NA history. And, as most have strong opinions about it and everything related, there's rarely a week that goes by that I'm not presented with a front row seat to a lively discussion along those lines. That'd be what I based my opinion on.

I could have just read a book, though. Still would have presented my opinion based on that.

 

[Granite]

He was an imperialistic greedy rapist pig and murderer. That said, he was merely a man of his time.

 

[lightbringer]

Hey, did you know one of his ancestors was named...um...hm, can't remember it offhand...but it translated as something like "kills with a stick".

Did your in-laws give you a name Mary?

Let's see...kills with a straight razor? Carries razor in boot?
I'm sure it was more poetic in the language of their people.

:idea: Dove close shave?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

He was an imperialistic greedy rapist pig and murderer. That said, he was merely a man of his time.

Do I know liberals or what?

Liberals HATE him; that's more than a good enough reason to honor him.

 

[Granite]

Do I know liberals or what?

You don't know much, period. Whether you like the guy or not he was a tool of imperialism and documented his acts of rape, torture, and murder. Sorry, but that's a matter of fact.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

You don't know much, period. Whether you like the guy or not he was a tool of imperialism and documented his acts of rape, torture, and murder. Sorry, but that's a matter of fact.

Where do you get your "facts"?