toldailytopic: Bombing at Moscow airport.

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rexlunae

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This link you provided, http://www.time.com/time/daily/newsf...co/051793.html,

Was this to give some credence to the accusations of abuse?

It was an article written by "Sophronia Scott Gregory", after looking for information on her, hoping to find some credentials that would lead me to give some weight to her findings, all I could find is that she is a writer, provides book coaching and writers workshops?

The article was written in 1993. :idunno: Do you doubt what she describes? It's certainly more substantive than anything you've offered to demonstrate any liability for any specific federal agents.

Are we going to develop prosecution based on a person that earns her living by writing? Or would it be better to find a child psychologist or a criminal psychologist for this or at least some form of hard evidence (kind of hard to do after every one is dead and most site evidence went up in flames) that would stand up to a congressional investigation? Not to forget that the accused is normally provided with an opportunity to defend him/herself....another difficult thing when almost all the accused are dead, at least the prime suspects.

Well, yes, I would agree. But then, I don't really have subpoena power either, so my resources are limited.

That is one of the things I noticed reviewing the tapes of the congressional investigation, many of the Congressmen on the panel were getting some what angry with so much evidence that was word of mouth/hearsay and not very much that a court would actually call hard evidence.

Sometimes there just isn't much to go on. But I'm fairly satisfied to draw some conclusions based on the obvious motivations of the two sides. I'm still waiting for you to show me anything, even just one thing, that justifies comparing the government's actions at Waco to the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building and finding the government more reprehensible.
 

lightbringer

TOL Subscriber
The article was written in 1993. :idunno: Do you doubt what she describes? It's certainly more substantive than anything you've offered to demonstrate any liability for any specific federal agents.
Well, yes, I would agree. But then, I don't really have subpoena power either, so my resources are limited.
Sometimes there just isn't much to go on. But I'm fairly satisfied to draw some conclusions based on the obvious motivations of the two sides. I'm still waiting for you to show me anything, even just one thing, that justifies comparing the government's actions at Waco to the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building and finding the government more reprehensible.

Question, have you done anything more substantial or in depth than a Wiki scan?

And yes I doubt what she has written and would hope that you would also, considering she holds no qualifications in the field of psychiatry or criminal investigations and offers articles for sale that she knows would be seen as conjecture in a court so she risks nothing but gains all.

I have spent many hours watching the tapes that were presented to the Congressional panel and reading statements of those that were brought before the panel...if Wiki is good enough for you to prosecute someone I feel sorry for you and anyone else that would treat another persons life with so little value or respect, and no I'm not going to do your homework for you..you wish to present your case for debate it is up to you to present it well enough to be believed. So far you have failed to do so.
 

rexlunae

New member
Question, have you done anything more substantial or in depth than a Wiki scan?

I have the advantage of it being within the range of my living memory, along with some of the subsequent response. But reading the Wikipedia articles is some of the most useful information, especially because it provides background on what sort of movement was camped out in that compound.

And yes I doubt what she has written and would hope that you would also, considering she holds no qualifications in the field of psychiatry or criminal investigations and offers articles for sale that she knows would be seen as conjecture in a court so she risks nothing but gains all.

You don't need any such credentials to report on child abuse. And other than it being potentially considered heresay, there's no reason you need those credentials to testify in a court of law (since that seems to be the standard you want to apply) about child abuse either. A court would want the child to testify rather than a third party, but I see no reason to suspect she's lying about what the children have told her.

I have spent many hours watching the tapes that were presented to the Congressional panel and reading statements of those that were brought before the panel...

And what did you find that made you think that the actions of federal agents were worse than driving a truck up to a building full of innocent people and blowing it up while you flee to safety? I mean, it would have to be seriously sinister stuff to be as bad as that.

if Wiki is good enough for you to prosecute someone I feel sorry for you and anyone else that would treat another persons life with so little value or respect,

I never said that it was. I'm challenging the way you make the comparison. If you feel that you have presented enough to justify your accusations against Janet Reno and other federal officials, by all means, leave it at that, but I am not satisfied, and therefore not persuaded. I would point out that you have offered less substance than I have to support your case, and in fact, you have suggested that I spend hours of my time chasing down some evidence of some so-far-unspecified wrongdoing by federal agents. If you really had something impressive, you'd have at least said what it is by now.

To be clear, what I am asking for is what you believe the federal agents did wrong. I'm willing to do some searching myself, but you need to point the way if you want me to find the evidence that you consider relevant.

and no I'm not going to do your homework for you..you wish to present your case for debate it is up to you to present it well enough to be believed. So far you have failed to do so.

Look, we each have our burdens to satisfy in order to persuade others, and on a forum post, we really aren't accountable to anyone but ourselves. In my case, I'm drawing from widely available public sources of information that I've read to draw conclusions about the group involved. I've provided those sources, and you haven't even said where you think they err. I'm open to persuasion that there is more to consider, but you haven't really even given me a reason to think that I'm missing something really important. I don't even know what sort of wrongdoing you're thinking of when you refer to the Congressional panel recordings, and you should recognize that I need some more serious reason to look that deep into it.

In your case, you have said that things which federal officials have done are worse than mass murder. If I were you, I'd want to justify that claim when challenged. But suit yourself.
 

Dena

New member
Because I don't feel like reading through the entire thread and I don't watch the news, I'm going to ask...did anyone take credit for this or no?
 

lightbringer

TOL Subscriber
I have the advantage of it being within the range of my living memory, along with some of the subsequent response. But reading the Wikipedia articles is some of the most useful information, especially because it provides background on what sort of movement was camped out in that compound.
You don't need any such credentials to report on child abuse. And other than it being potentially considered heresay, there's no reason you need those credentials to testify in a court of law (since that seems to be the standard you want to apply) about child abuse either. A court would want the child to testify rather than a third party, but I see no reason to suspect she's lying about what the children have told her.
And what did you find that made you think that the actions of federal agents were worse than driving a truck up to a building full of innocent people and blowing it up while you flee to safety? I mean, it would have to be seriously sinister stuff to be as bad as that.
I never said that it was. I'm challenging the way you make the comparison. If you feel that you have presented enough to justify your accusations against Janet Reno and other federal officials, by all means, leave it at that, but I am not satisfied, and therefore not persuaded. I would point out that you have offered less substance than I have to support your case, and in fact, you have suggested that I spend hours of my time chasing down some evidence of some so-far-unspecified wrongdoing by federal agents. If you really had something impressive, you'd have at least said what it is by now.

To be clear, what I am asking for is what you believe the federal agents did wrong. I'm willing to do some searching myself, but you need to point the way if you want me to find the evidence that you consider relevant.
Look, we each have our burdens to satisfy in order to persuade others, and on a forum post, we really aren't accountable to anyone but ourselves. In my case, I'm drawing from widely available public sources of information that I've read to draw conclusions about the group involved. I've provided those sources, and you haven't even said where you think they err. I'm open to persuasion that there is more to consider, but you haven't really even given me a reason to think that I'm missing something really important. I don't even know what sort of wrongdoing you're thinking of when you refer to the Congressional panel recordings, and you should recognize that I need some more serious reason to look that deep into it.

In your case, you have said that things which federal officials have done are worse than mass murder. If I were you, I'd want to justify that claim when challenged. But suit yourself.

No need to justify anything if Wiki is your source for facts.

Your other link was by a writer with no expertise in investigation or psychology.

:idunno:
 
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