toldailytopic: Bombing at Moscow airport.

[No Sheep Here]

Looks like Islamic terrorists have struck again. It's becoming more and more apparent that it's either going to be us.... or them. Islamic extremists need to be dealt with or we will never be able to live in relative peace again.

From reading history, it seems that people around the world once felt that way about Christians. Maybe you should consider yourself lucky to have a religion that was touched by the enlightenment and forced into civility unlike Islam.

Maybe you should fight against the fundamentalist Christians of your day so that we do not fall like Islam did. As I understand it from my readings, Islam was once a very open group during their rule of the European world. I know Baghdad was considered to be a sort of intellectual center where people of all religions and ideas came to debate, learn etc. Then they had an influential fundamentalist that helped them fall apart. He had silly ideas like mathematics is of the devil etc. Makes me think of the fundamentalist creationist and militant Christian groups.

These Muslim terrorist groups obviously recruit young ignorant people whom have been through hard times and brainwash them.

 

[No Sheep Here]

Muslims are becoming the 14th century Christians with 21st century weapons.
The cure will be the same for the Middle East as it was for Western Europe: economic development and secularization of the state.

Agreed.

Unfortunately most Christians carry around a sense of arrogance that their religion is better because they aren't acting like Muslims are today. We only need to take a trip down history's lane to see that their doctrine made them no better. They have secular society to thank for their civility.

 

[No Sheep Here]

McVeigh believed in national socialism, just like Islam. He was wrong to retailate for the murders commited by Reno in Waco and Ruby Ridge, but that isn't the point here. This is.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70N2TQ20110124

Islamist rebels have vowed to take their bombing campaign from the North Caucasus to the Russian heartland in the year before presidential elections, hitting transport and economic targets. They have also leveled threats at the 2014 Winter Olympics, scheduled for the Black Sea resort town of Sochi, a region some militants consider "occupied."

Dense smoke filled Domodedovo's international arrivals hall and a fire burned along one wall.

What about the Atlanta Olympic games bombing done by the Christian group 'Army of God"?

What about the Christian terrorist who were arrested early 2010 before they could carry out their plans? It seems that in America we are much better at derailing terrorist plots before they happen, except for the abortion shootings and bombings.

Don't act like there aren't Christan terrorist sitting in America too. I'm equally scared of Christians and Muslim fundamentalist. I'm thankful to live in a secular government, or else we'd have Christian executing people just as Muslims do in their government, and like Europe use to do.

 

[MrDeets]

If ya had to bet money who was responsible for a suicide bombing in an airport where they have had trouble with Islamic terrorists in past where would you place your money?

The Pentecostals.

 

[some other dude]

The Mennonites

 

[TomO]

Baptists :noid:

 

[Nydhogg]

He was wrong to retailate for the murders commited by Reno in Waco and Ruby Ridge, but that isn't the point here. This is.

I'd say Reno was worse: she had civvies killed. McVeigh attacked a government target.
Murdering civvies is always a worse crime.

 

[TomO]

Good.

The Russians are equalled only by the Syrians and the Israelis when it comes to ferretting out and clamping down hard on terrorists. They don't pussyfoot around, they don't play nice, they don't debate whether terrorists should be afforded the same constitutional rights of the people they just murdered. They play extremely dirty when it comes to this sort of thing.

Well, you can't really expect the Chechens to stay civil.
The Russians have oppressed them quite a bit. So they lash out.

A shame they take it on civvies, but you really can't expect the Chechens to bend over and let the Ruskies screw them either.

lain: It had to have been the Chechens; they are the only ones crazy enough to mess with the Russians.

From what I have read (I think it was Kissinger who recounted the tale) a Middle Eastern terrorist cell kidnapped and killed one of their embassy staff in the early 70's. They didn't mess around going after the actual terrorists who did the act. The KGB went straight to the leadership of the cell.....it did not work out well for the family of the terrorists leader. :nono:
I won't recount the finer points but lets just say gruesome would be an understatement.

 

[Nydhogg]

lain: It had to have been the Chechens; they are the only ones crazy enough to mess with the Russians.

Well, if my memory still works according to factory specs, the Finns and the Pashtun messed with the Russians too.

 

[Flipper]

Baptists :noid:

A militant Quaker faction?

 

[Flipper]

Good.

The Russians are equalled only by the Syrians and the Israelis when it comes to ferretting out and clamping down hard on terrorists. They don't pussyfoot around, they don't play nice, they don't debate whether terrorists should be afforded the same constitutional rights of the people they just murdered. They play extremely dirty when it comes to this sort of thing.

Yeah, and look how well it's working out for them so far.

I would have thought that the last four decades or so would have shown that playing hardball doesn't actually prevent terrorism, but actually feeds the problem.

The Russians played much dirtier than the US in Afghanistan (chemical weapons, indiscriminate bombing and mining, etc) with a larger troop pool and they still lost.

Some guys like to talk about getting tough on militants and what not, but they never explain what that means, exactly. I am starting to think it's because they don't know.

 

[some other dude]

Yeah, and look how well it's working out for them so far.

I would have thought that the last four decades or so would have shown that playing hardball doesn't actually prevent terrorism, but actually feeds the problem.

The Russians played much dirtier than the US in Afghanistan (chemical weapons, indiscriminate bombing and mining, etc) with a larger troop pool and they still lost.

Some guys like to talk about getting tough on militants and what not, but they never explain what that means, exactly. I am starting to think it's because they don't know.

Their success in Lebanon speaks for itself.

 

[some other dude]

lain: It had to have been the Chechens; they are the only ones crazy enough to mess with the Russians.

From what I have read (I think it was Kissinger who recounted the tale) a Middle Eastern terrorist cell kidnapped and killed one of their embassy staff in the early 70's. They didn't mess around going after the actual terrorists who did the act. The KGB went straight to the leadership of the cell.....it did not work out well for the family of the terrorists leader. :nono:
I won't recount the finer points but lets just say gruesome would be an understatement.

I had always wondered if that story was just an urban legend, but apparently it's true. I' have seen it documented on Wiki (and elsewhere.)

 

[some other dude]

I'd say Reno was worse: she had civvies killed. McVeigh attacked a government target.
Murdering civvies is always a worse crime.

 

[Nydhogg]

I'd like to post the kids the ATF burnt alive at Waco, but the pictures are nowhere to be found anymore.
That's deliberately burnt. As in "stormed the place regardless that the kids were in there."

At the very least, both actions (Waco and Oklahoma) are morally equivalent. Still, my gut feeling says Waco was worse.
Why, you'll ask? Stationing kids alongisde military or law enforcement personnel is a textbook example of "using human shields". And the ATF mass murdered kids first.

We whine when the terr'rists use human shields, but we consider the authorities doing it completely appropriate. Puzzling.

 

[lightbringer]

I'd like to post the kids the ATF burnt alive at Waco, but the pictures are nowhere to be found anymore.

The ATF and the FBI are still hiding incriminating evidence.

 

[Nydhogg]

You're a retired Marine.
I'm sure you hate state terrorism, most Marines I've met dislike killing civvies.

Whaddaya think is more evil: The government ordering and executing the murder of a bunch of civvies, or a guy attacking the government in retaliation?

 

[MrDeets]

The ATF and the FBI are still hiding incriminating evidence.

Like the fact that Lon Horiuchi shot unarmed Vicki Weaver and was at the #4 sniper post at Waco... until the BATF/FBI changed its lineup of the Waco events? That guys is a straight up gooberment hitman/murderer.

 

[lightbringer]

You're a retired Marine.
I'm sure you hate state terrorism, most Marines I've met dislike killing civvies.

Whaddaya think is more evil: The government ordering and executing the murder of a bunch of civvies, or a guy attacking the government in retaliation?

No, I do not like State Condoned Terrorism.

Both are bad regardless of who is doing it, especially for the civilian populace.

I don't believe in evil.

I've never met anyone that thinks the killing of civilians is good, but unfortunately, when bullets fly there will be collateral damage, it is inevitable.

Which is why I believe disputes should be settled by Heads of State at a peaceful summit.

In the case of an individual acting on his own (not part of an organized rebellion), retaliating due to some disservice or grievance with the government, I see a person that needs help, not some kind of Patriotic Soldier.

 

[lightbringer]

Like the fact that Lon Horiuchi shot unarmed Vicki Weaver and was at the #4 sniper post at Waco... until the BATF/FBI changed its lineup of the Waco events? That guys is a straight up gooberment hitman/murderer.

:thumb: