toldailytopic: Are Christians called to forgive the Colorado Movie Theater killer?

Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for July 23rd, 2012 10:59 AM


toldailytopic: Are Christians called to forgive the Colorado Movie Theater killer?






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Nathon Detroit

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Are Christians called to forgive the Colorado Movie Theater killer?

ANSWER: No.

First off... you can only forgive someone if they have sinned against you. You don't have the right to forgive someone who has sinned against others.

But most importantly, you shouldn't forgive anyone unless they are repentant and are asking for forgiveness.

Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Luke 17:3

And finally, even if he were repentant, and the victims forgave him... justice still must be served therefore the shooter should still be put to death.
 

CabinetMaker

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Are Christians called to forgive the Colorado Movie Theater killer?

ANSWER: No.

First off... you can only forgive someone if they have sinned against you. You don't have the right to forgive someone who has sinned against others.
Don't tell the Catholics that, the priests would get bored!

Knight said:
But most importantly, you shouldn't forgive anyone unless they are repentant and are asking for forgiveness.

Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Luke 17:3

And finally, even if he were repentant, and the victims forgave him... justice still must be served therefore the shooter should still be put to death.
I agree that I cannot forgive him since what he did did not effect me - he didn't sin against me. Even if repentant and forgiven, justice must still take its course.
 

Traditio

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Are Christians called to forgive the Colorado Movie Theater killer?

ANSWER: No.

"Shouldst not thou then have had compassion also on thy fellow servant, even as I had compassion on thee? [34] And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all the debt. [35] So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not every one his brother from your hearts" (Matthew 18:33-35).

First off... you can only forgive someone if they have sinned against you. You don't have the right to forgive someone who has sinned against others.

"To thee only have I sinned, and have done evil before thee: that thou mayst be justified in thy words and mayst overcome when thou art judged" (Psalm 51:6).

But most importantly, you shouldn't forgive anyone unless they are repentant and are asking for forgiveness.

"And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, they crucified him there; and the robbers, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. [34] And Jesus said: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. But they, dividing his garments, cast lots" (Luke 23:33-34).

And finally, even if he were repentant, and the victims forgave him... justice still must be served therefore the shooter should still be put to death.

"Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity 'are very rare, if not practically non-existent'" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2267).
 

john w

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But most importantly, you shouldn't forgive anyone unless they are repentant and are asking for forgiveness.

Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Luke 17:3

Ephesians 4:32 KJV
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

"even as"

In this dispensation, we are to forgive others, not on the basis of whether they have asked us, or not, but on the basis of God the Father, forgiving us, "for Christ's sake," i.e., we never ask forgiveness for our sins-we are to believe that the sin/sins issue was settled completely 2000 years ago. And, accordingly, because of what Christ is, and what He did, including forgiving us w/o us having any inclination to be forgiven, dying for us while we were yet sinners.....as the principle of grace operates independently of merit, or lack thereof, on the sinner's part, we are to forgive in like manner, disregarding the offender's "pleading...asking...". God the Father already has forgiven us, "for Christ's sake," and tells us to believe it, based upon what the Christ has already done as pertaining to the sin/sins issue. If someone sins against you, we are to say, "I forgive you," not because you asked for my forgiveness, but because the Christ forgave me. And we are to move on.
 

Son of Jack

New member
I was going to mention Ephesians 4:32, but John W beat me to it.

We are to forgive him because Christ forgave us and because we would want to be forgiven.
 

Buzzword

New member
One can be forgiven due to God's love and still suffer the consequences of breaking the laws of men.

So yes, we are called to forgive.

We are not called to ignore the person's actions or their consequences.
 

noguru

Well-known member
Probably Yes. I am sure that if he was truly remorseful God would. I can be honest with myself and admit that I can't forgive something like that. That is why God is God and I am me. I certainly cannot live up to God's standard on forgiveness as hard as I try.
 

noguru

Well-known member
First off... you can only forgive someone if they have sinned against you. You don't have the right to forgive someone who has sinned against others.

So if the person sins against one who is not a Christian and is not inclined to forgive. From who should the transgressor ask forgiveness?

I know it should be God first and foremost, but who in addition to God?

Also, I would say that there are more victims to this transgression than just the ones who were directly effected. His actions are certainly far more reaching than it initially appears from a casual glance. That is why when we are prosecuted for crimes it says "The State of XXXXXXX vs defendant".
 
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eameece

New member
One can be forgiven due to God's love and still suffer the consequences of breaking the laws of men.

So yes, we are called to forgive.

We are not called to ignore the person's actions or their consequences.

Well said; I agree.

I can be honest with myself and admit that I can't forgive something like that. That is why God is God and I am me. I certainly cannot live up to God's standard on forgiveness as hard as I try.
I can't disagree with this either. It is hard, especially for the folks who lost loved ones to this senseless massacre.
 

This Charming Manc

Well-known member
wont let me rep you for this but that looks like a truth smack to me !

i think you best post to date.

"Shouldst not thou then have had compassion also on thy fellow servant, even as I had compassion on thee? [34] And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all the debt. [35] So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not every one his brother from your hearts" (Matthew 18:33-35).



"To thee only have I sinned, and have done evil before thee: that thou mayst be justified in thy words and mayst overcome when thou art judged" (Psalm 51:6).



"And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, they crucified him there; and the robbers, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. [34] And Jesus said: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. But they, dividing his garments, cast lots" (Luke 23:33-34).



"Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity 'are very rare, if not practically non-existent'" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2267).
 

Son of Jack

New member
How did Christ forgive you?

By being the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world.

Did He forgive you before you asked for forgiveness?

"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." - Luke 23:34

"My son, your sins are forgiven." - Mark 2:5

In either case, did the ones who got forgiveness ask for it?
 

Eeset

.
LIFETIME MEMBER
A few short decades ago none of us would have even heard of this event taking place. And even today we all did not hear of a thousand other atrocities that took place around the world. They weren't reported. Why should I sit in the judgement seat for this event?
 

noguru

Well-known member
A few short decades ago none of us would have even heard of this event taking place. And even today we all did not hear of a thousand other atrocities that took place around the world. They weren't reported. Why should I sit in the judgement seat for this event?

Because such a needless loss of life, at the hands of anyone who is a social malcontent, should be an example of what not to do in this life.

Geez, if one is not happy with their life, then maybe take one's own life. But to be that presumptuous by taking the life of others should stand as an infamous example of how not to behave.
 
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