To teach that people are born in sin is to teach against what Jesus taught

[glorydaz]

Which is what you need. You insist to have power even if NOT yet PLUGGED IN to Him Who is the ONLY source of power, Christ - the power of God (1 Cor 1:24).

Excuse me, sister. Where in my posts did I deny "that the GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION"? Please show me that post, or you owe me an apology.

I don't owe you an apology because you have claimed over and over again that Christ is the ONLY Power of God. I gave you the verse that the Gospel is the Power of God unto salvation, and you ignore it. I even showed you how the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST is the means through which that Power of Christ is administered to those who obey it (are begotten by it). You continue to preach the same thing you did before which is error.

When you insert the word ONLY into a verse that does not contain the word ONLY, then you are inserting your understanding (reading between the lines) of what is clearly written.

 

[glorydaz]

You don't believe Jesus when He said that APART from Him man can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Instead, you insist man can do SOMETHING - he can hear & believe, while still APART from Christ!

Jesus being the true vine is not speaking of our being created IN CHRIST via the preaching of the Gospel.

Even in that text, He is not speaking of how one becomes a branch in the first place. You're trying to compare apples and oranges. You're comparing what Jesus said about the disciples...who were only attached because they were followers, and had affiliated themselves with Jesus. They were IN HIS COMPANY, and He was in their company. Totally different than what the RISEN LORD revealed to Paul. The Holy Spirit had not yet been sent, so none had been CREATED in Christ through the preaching of the GOSPEL OF GRACE. We see examples of those who were cut off here....

John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

John 6:70-71 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.​

 

[Samie]

I don't owe you an apology because you have claimed over and over again that Christ is the ONLY Power of God. I gave you the verse that the Gospel is the Power of God unto salvation, and you ignore it. I even showed you how the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST is the means through which that Power of Christ is administered to those who obey it (are begotten by it). You continue to preach the same thing you did before which is error.

Christ is the power of God, error? You're NOT aware that Christ is the Gospel? You have gospel without Christ, sister? The Gospel is the power of God. Christ is the power of
God. Therefore, Christ is the Gospel.

But it appears to me that what you are doing in this issue is to fit one verse against the other, just to get away from the biblical fact that man is UNABLE to do the acts of hearing and believing while NOT yet in Christ, the ONLY Source of Power.

When you insert the word ONLY into a verse that does not contain the word ONLY, then you are inserting your understanding (reading between the lines) of what is clearly written.

Christ is the Power of God, hence He is the ONLY Source of Power.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Why would He not be the ONLY Source of Power when all power had been given Him?

 

[Samie]

Jesus being the true vine is not speaking of our being created IN CHRIST via the preaching of the Gospel.

Jesus was CLEARLY saying that APART from Him man can do NOTHING. Period. But you REFUSE to believe the plain record of the Bible. If the disciples can do NOTHING when NOT in Him, how much more those who are NOT among them?

Even in that text, He is not speaking of how one becomes a branch in the first place.

And who said it is, sister?

You're trying to compare apples and oranges.

Nope. I just told you that Jesus said APART from Him man can do NOTHING. But you REFUSE to believe what Jesus said.

You're comparing what Jesus said about the disciples...who were only attached because they were followers, and had affiliated themselves with Jesus. They were IN HIS COMPANY, and He was in their company. Totally different than what the RISEN LORD revealed to Paul.

Sister, oh my sister. You seem to have forgotten that Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8). He was with His disciples. He is with us. What's the difference?

The Holy Spirit had not yet been sent, so none had been CREATED in Christ through the preaching of the GOSPEL OF GRACE. We see examples of those who were cut off here....

Gospel of grace. The gospel and grace are none other than Christ our Lord & Savior.

When was grace given to us, sister? If you can answer this with Scripture, then you have given the biblical answer.

 

[glorydaz]

Christ is the power of God, error? You're NOT aware that Christ is the Gospel? You have gospel without Christ, sister? The Gospel is the power of God. Christ is the power of
God. Therefore, Christ is the Gospel.

Christ is the Gospel?

No, that is another example of your reading something into the word of God.

But it appears to me that what you are doing in this issue is to fit one verse against the other, just to get away from the biblical fact that man is UNABLE to do the acts of hearing and believing while NOT yet in Christ, the ONLY Source of Power.

No, God uses the preaching of the Gospel to save men from their sins. They hear and believe. They don't believe and then hear.

Christ is the Power of God, hence He is the ONLY Source of Power.

The Gospel is the power of God UNTO SALVATION. It's the preaching of the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, and our believing it that saves us.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Why would He not be the ONLY Source of Power when all power had been given Him?

That power is administered through the preaching of the Gospel.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus was CLEARLY saying that APART from Him man can do NOTHING. Period. But you REFUSE to believe the plain record of the Bible. If the disciples can do NOTHING when NOT in Him, how much more those who are NOT among them?

The disciples were not IN HIM, they were in His company. In His presence. They could leave and no longer follow Him. The Holy Spirit had not yet been given when Jesus walked among the disciples, therefore, they could not have been baptized into His BODY.....created in HIM.

Nope. I just told you that Jesus said APART from Him man can do NOTHING. But you REFUSE to believe what Jesus said.

I do believe what Jesus said. He didn't say what you think He said because He still walked among them in the flesh. It was not until the Holy Spirit (another COMFORTER) was given that anyone would be created IN Christ Jesus as new creations.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.​

Sister, oh my sister. You seem to have forgotten that Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8). He was with His disciples. He is with us. What's the difference?

Big difference. He was still in the flesh. He had not yet risen.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Gospel of grace. The gospel and grace are none other than Christ our Lord & Savior.

When was grace given to us, sister? If you can answer this with Scripture, then you have given the biblical answer.

Grace is the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ that was shed for the sins of the world. It was not just His coming, but His coming, shedding His blood, and raising again for our justification. We access that Grace by faith in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Good News (Gospel of Grace) is that He shed His blood for our sins, and He rose again for our justification.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.​

 

[glorydaz]

I think the purpose of the parable was to show the sheep/coin/son is representative of humans being with their shepherd/owner/father prior to the fall.

Then the fall happens.

Then they are lost.


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Why then wasn't Jesus lost?

 

[Judson50]

Why then wasn't Jesus lost?

Because He is God Incarnate.


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[Samie]

That power is administered through the preaching of the Gospel.

You have a verse that says this? Where in the Bible? But since there is none, just for purposes of our discussion, let us analyze what you are trying to insist, that unless one hears the gospel, he cannot believe, and he cannot be saved.

1. A person yet UNSAVED has no power whatsoever.
2. Since he does not have the power to hear, he cannot hear the gospel.
3. Since he cannot hear the gospel, he cannot believe.
4. Since he cannot believe, he cannot be saved.
5. Therefore, as per consequence of what you are insisting, a person yet unsaved will remain unsaved.

 

[glorydaz]

You have a verse that says this? Where in the Bible? But since there is none, just for purposes of our discussion, let us analyze what you are trying to insist, that unless one hears the gospel, he cannot believe, and he cannot be saved.

1. A person yet UNSAVED has no power whatsoever.
2. Since he does not have the power to hear, he cannot hear the gospel.
3. Since he cannot hear the gospel, he cannot believe. WHAT ABOUT THE PREACHER?
4. Since he cannot believe, he cannot be saved.
5. Therefore, as per consequence of what you are insisting, a person yet unsaved will remain unsaved.

What? You've never heard of the ministration of the Gospel?

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.​

You don't know that Paul was called to preach the Gospel, and refers to that right here? Try actually reading the word of God. It's filled with many such incredible truths. You won't even accept what Paul tells us in Romans 10....How can they believe unless they hear? How can they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

2 Cor. 3:3-6KJV Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Cor. 3:7-8KJV But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2 Cor. 3:9KJV For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.​

Note - The ministration (administration) of righteousness is the Gospel. We believe unto righteousness. Romans 10:10KJV We are begotten through the Gospel 1 Corinthians 4:15KJV:shocked:

 

[glorydaz]

Because He is God Incarnate.


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He was, but He was still man. Son of Adam. Son of David. Son of woman. Denying the humanity of the Lord Jesus Christ is just as bad as denying His deity.

 

[Samie]

glorydaz;

You edited my post to look like this:

You have a verse that says this? Where in the Bible? But since there is none, just for purposes of our discussion, let us analyze what you are trying to insist, that unless one hears the gospel, he cannot believe, and he cannot be saved.

1. A person yet UNSAVED has no power whatsoever.
2. Since he does not have the power to hear, he cannot hear the gospel.
3. Since he cannot hear the gospel, he cannot believe. WHAT ABOUT THE PREACHER?
4. Since he cannot believe, he cannot be saved.
5. Therefore, as per consequence of what you are insisting, a person yet unsaved will remain unsaved.

So what about the preacher?

The issue is on the HEARER who cannot hear.

 

[Samie]

What? You've never heard of the ministration of the Gospel?

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.​

You don't know that Paul was called to preach the Gospel, and refers to that right here? Try actually reading the word of God. It's filled with many such incredible truths. You won't even accept what Paul tells us in Romans 10....How can they believe unless they hear? How can they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

2 Cor. 3:3-6KJV Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Cor. 3:7-8KJV But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2 Cor. 3:9KJV For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.​

Note - The ministration (administration) of righteousness is the Gospel. We believe unto righteousness. Romans 10:10KJV We are begotten through the Gospel 1 Corinthians 4:15KJV:shocked:

None in those verses say that power is administered through the preaching of the gospel, as you claimed:

That power is administered through the preaching of the Gospel.

 

[Samie]

Christ is the power of God (1 Cor 1:24). Christ said all power in heaven and earth is given Him (Matt 28:18). Yet glorydaz refuses to believe that Jesus is the ONLY source of power, leading her to believe that man can hear even without the power to hear.

 

[glorydaz]

glorydaz;

You edited my post to look like this:So what about the preacher?

The issue is on the HEARER who cannot hear.

I showed you this before. This is very important and answers the very question you keep asking.

Statement of fact.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

Here it is. How can they call when they don't believe? :idunno:

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?​

How can they believe when they have not heard?

and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?​

AND HERE IT IS.... How can they hear without a preacher? :idea:

and how shall they hear without a preacher?​

Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.​

You say you can't hear unless you're "plugged in", but Paul says you can't hear without a PREACHER. Preaching the Gospel.

So then, faith cometh by hearing, AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD being preached. Not by being plugged in, but by THE GOSPEL being PREACHED.

 

[Samie]

Christ is the power of God (1 Cor 1:24). Christ said all power in heaven and earth is given Him (Matt 28:18). Yet glorydaz refuses to believe that Jesus is the ONLY source of power, leading her to believe that man can hear even without the power to hear.

Jesus, the power of God and having been given all power in heaven and earth, is the ONLY source of power.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. This power is also given to Christ, as He said that all power is given Him in heaven and in earth. Hence, unless one is in Christ, he has no power whatsoever. IOW, unless PLUGGED IN to Christ, one has no power to do any act, like the act of hearing.

The fact that a man can do the act of hearing is proof enough that he can do SOMETHING instead of NOTHING, and THEREFORE already has the power to hear PRIOR to his doing the act of hearing which brings us to the inevitable conclusion that PRIOR to his doing the act of hearing he is ALREADY PLUGGED IN to Christ, the ONLY Source of power.

 

[glorydaz]

Christ is the power of God (1 Cor 1:24). Christ said all power in heaven and earth is given Him (Matt 28:18). Yet glorydaz refuses to believe that Jesus is the ONLY source of power, leading her to believe that man can hear even without the power to hear.

Glorydaz just prefers to read the verses as they are written....not adding words like "ONLY" when it does not say ONLY.

1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.​

And, I'm not ashamed to preach the gospel....which is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION. Samie refuses to believe this verse.

Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.​

Nor is it beyond me to seek out the meaning of the words being used. Power can mean either ability (dunamis) or authority/priviledge (exousia), and in Matt. 28:18, the word "power" is speaking of authority . You should invest in a Concordance.

Unfortunately, Samie is exactly like God's UNTRUTH, who loves to talk, but refuses to listen.

Seriously, Samie, you need to learn to listen, or you will never learn anything. :sigh:

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus, the power of God and having been given all power in heaven and earth, is the ONLY source of power.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. This power is also given to Christ, as He said that all power is given Him in heaven and in earth.

You just succeeded in contradicting yourself. :think:

Hence,

Whatever you might say after the above is built upon a faulty premise.

Start over with the facts. The word ONLY is not in that verse. Power is used in different ways. Figure out which is which, and ditch the "plugged in" terminology. It is NOT in the Scripture.

 

[Samie]

You just succeeded in contradicting yourself. :think:

Whatever you might say after the above is built upon a faulty premise.

Start over with the facts. The word ONLY is not in that verse. Power is used in different ways. Figure out which is which, and ditch the "plugged in" terminology. It is NOT in the Scripture.

Apparently glorydaz also believes that God, through Christ, is NOT the ONLY Savior of all men since there is no ONLY in the verse:

KJV 1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe

I wonder, does she have another saviour in mind?

 

[Samie]

And glorydaz keeps silent about this, specially the first and second parts:

The fact that a man can do the act of hearing is proof enough that he can do SOMETHING instead of NOTHING, and THEREFORE already has the power to hear PRIOR to his doing the act of hearing which brings us to the inevitable conclusion that PRIOR to his doing the act of hearing he is ALREADY PLUGGED IN to Christ, the ONLY Source of power.