ECT Those who believe will labor to enter the "Rest" of God"

[Cross Reference]

The rest is talking about YOUR heart coming to rest.
You did not labor to become one of the saved did you.

LA

Again, Paul is speaking to born again, spirit filled Christians. So salvation is NOT what it is all about.

 

[musterion]

And if it is for us but not to us, shouldn't we follow it? Or do we divide it another way? Maybe I should have study more Calculus in school...

You don't need calc. Here's how I see it, take it for whatever it's worth.

All of the Bible is FOR us...for our learning from prior examples, for our instruction, encouragement and edification. All of it. Heir, Nick, STP -- no dispensationalist on this thread or on TOL will disagree with that.

But that does not equal all of the Bible being written TO us or ABOUT us. It is ONLY in the specific areas of Scripture written to and about us that we find what we need to know about the believer's identity, walk and destiny in Christ during this dispensation of grace.

As STP ably said, the problems arise when people do not distinguish between "for us" and "to/about us." That failure invariably makes utter confusion of Scripture, even to the point of creating what appears to be flat contradictions in God's Word where - if one simply looks at to whom, about whom or when something was written - no such conflict exists.

Put another way:

“It shall greatly help ye to understand Scripture if thou mark not only what is spoken or wrythen, but OF whom and TO whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goeth before and what followeth after."


Miles Coverdale

It's really that simple.

Now, most protestants/evangies/fundies will look at Coverdale's quote and say, "Oh, sure. I do that...Old Testament, New Testament...got it." But that is incomplete. They fail to RIGHTLY divide the Word in accordance with the divisions already placed in Scripture by God Himself. Simply saying OT/NT isn't it.

 

[john w]

You don't need calc. Here's how I see it, take it for whatever it's worth.

All of the Bible is FOR us...for our learning from prior examples, for our instruction, encouragement and edification. All of it. Heir, Nick, STP -- no dispensationalist on this thread or on TOL will disagree with that.

But that does not equal all of the Bible being written TO us or ABOUT us. It is ONLY in the specific areas of Scripture written to and about us that we find what we need to know about the believer's identity, walk and destiny in Christ during this dispensation of grace.

As STP ably said, the problems arise when people do not distinguish between "for us" and "to/about us." That failure invariably makes utter confusion of Scripture, even to the point of creating what appears to be flat contradictions in God's Word where - if one simply looks at to whom and when something was written - no such conflict exists.

Put another way:

“It shall greatly help ye to understand Scripture if thou mark not only what is spoken or wrythen, but of whom and to whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goeth before and what followeth after."


Miles Coverdale


It's really that simple.

Now, most protestants/evangies/fundies will look at Coverdale's quote and say, "Oh, sure. I do that...Old Testament, New Testament...got it." But that is incomplete. They fail to RIGHTLY divide the Word in accordance with the divisions already placed in Scripture by God Himself. Simply saying OT/NT isn't it.

“..Thou hast spoken well… Thou hast well said ..”( Ex. 10:29 KJV, John 4:17 KJV)

 

[musterion]

I want to add that I post the above as someone who 10 years ago was a rock-solid convinced independent fundamental Baptist who totally avoided the Book of Acts because it made absolutely no sense to me...nor did much else of the Bible, truth be told. But now? Much clearer, thanks to God's granting me more light. I do not know everything - not even close - but at least now I see where everything fits, and where it doesn't.

 

[vfirestormv]

You don't need calc. Here's how I see it, take it for whatever it's worth.

All of the Bible is FOR us...for our learning from prior examples, for our instruction, encouragement and edification. All of it. Heir, Nick, STP -- no dispensationalist on this thread or on TOL will disagree with that.

But that does not equal all of the Bible being written TO us or ABOUT us. It is ONLY in the specific areas of Scripture written to and about us that we find what we need to know about the believer's identity, walk and destiny in Christ during this dispensation of grace.

As STP ably said, the problems arise when people do not distinguish between "for us" and "to/about us." That failure invariably makes utter confusion of Scripture, even to the point of creating what appears to be flat contradictions in God's Word where - if one simply looks at to whom, about whom or when something was written - no such conflict exists.

Put another way:

“It shall greatly help ye to understand Scripture if thou mark not only what is spoken or wrythen, but of whom and to whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goeth before and what followeth after."


Miles Coverdale


It's really that simple.

Now, most protestants/evangies/fundies will look at Coverdale's quote and say, "Oh, sure. I do that...Old Testament, New Testament...got it." But that is incomplete. They fail to RIGHTLY divide the Word in accordance with the divisions already placed in Scripture by God Himself. Simply saying OT/NT isn't it.

I agree with most of what you said there. And how we are to study the Bible. And I do know there are different dispensations in how God deals with man, His chosen people Israel, us Gentiles in this dispensation of Grace and how He will deal with the nation of Israel during the tribulation.
Where we differ is that any of it is another gospel. It has always been Christ, is Christ now and will be Christ during the Tribulation. No flesh, not you not me not Jew not any flesh has ever been saved by the law. Those that were under the old covenant that were given the law could not follow it and therefore had to make sacrifices for their sins. But those sacrifices only covered the sin it did not forgive it. They were a type of the true sacrifice to come which was Jesus. Even in the Trib when they must endure til the end, still no flesh shall be saved by their righteousness, it will still be Christ's. One gospel, one good news, which is Christ and Him crucified.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[musterion]

I agree with most of what you said there. And how we are to study the Bible. And I do know there are different dispensations in how God deals with man, His chosen people Israel, us Gentiles in this dispensation of Grace and how He will deal with the nation of Israel during the tribulation.

Cool. Glad to hear it.

Where we differ is that any of it is another gospel.

Wait...how any of what is another gospel?

It has always been Christ

True, but do you know who knew that before it was taught by the apostle Paul?

 

[Tambora]

Again, I am no worker for my salvation,

Great!

but I am glad to be a worker because of it.

Commendable, but not necessary for salvation.
Most atheisits are glad to do good works too.

But on to your false claim... What part of the scriptures that you quoted don't apply to us today. The law is still there and still shows what man must do in order to be able to stand before God.

Rom_3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

In other words to show man that you can not stand before me at all, because you will be guilty before me. Not me, you, or any Jew, except Christ, has ever been able to keep the law. No flesh shall be justified by the law. He did not say, only the Jews. But no flesh. Therefore we need a savior. And when I say we, yes I mean the Jew and the Gentile.


But just because we can't do it ourselves does not mean that we are not to war against the flesh and try to do what is right. Our Apostle Paul taught that, you know.

Agreed. With the exception of Christ, everyone has been stained with sin.

Doing what is right is a good thing, but it has nothing to do with one receiving or keeping salvation.
Many are arguing that their behavior is what gets them saved and keeps them saved.
Their mouths should be stopped.

 

[vfirestormv]

Cool. Glad to hear it.

Wait...how any of what is another gospel?

True, but do you know who knew that before it was taught by the apostle Paul?

Weather they knew it or not is of no consequence. Abel did not know it when he brought an animal sacrifice to the Lord. Job did not know it either. The Jews of old did not know His name either and as time goes on and you see in the prophetic books, more and more of the messiah was revealed. When Christ came even more revealed by John the Baptist, then even more as Christ Himself walked and taught the people. Revealing more and more of the truth of Himself. But that is what I am saying the only and I mean only good news in all the Bible is Christ and Him crucified. It always has been and always will be.
There are many unbelievers today, does that mean that because it is not revealed to them that it is anything other than Christ?

Please correct me if I am wrong but I have seen MidActs people say right here on this board that the Jews are saved by the law and obeying the law. That is not true and never has been not even when Moses first brought down the tablets of stone for Israel.

 

[vfirestormv]

I want to add that I post the above as someone who 10 years ago was a rock-solid convinced independent fundamental Baptist who totally avoided the Book of Acts because it made absolutely no sense to me...nor did much else of the Bible, truth be told. But now? Much clearer, thanks to God's granting me more light. I do not know everything - not even close - but at least now I see where everything fits, and where it doesn't.

That is a shame because I read from cover to cover and I find no contradictions in it. It fits perfectly together how that the mystery of God, which is Christ, was made manifest to the world starting in Gen. and being fully revealed with the preaching of Paul forward. But it has always been the same mystery. No need to separate the Jew and the Gentile. What Jesus taught was just as much for us as it was to them. And the books of Hebrews, Peter, John, James, Jude do not contradict that mystery. They are all one and the same.

 

[musterion]

Weather they knew it or not is of no consequence. . .the only and I mean only good news in all the Bible is Christ and Him crucified.

How could it have been good news to anyone before anyone knew of it?

Please correct me if I am wrong but I have seen MidActs people say right here on this board that the Jews are saved by the law and obeying the law.

I feel confident guaranteeing you that NO m.a.d. on this board has EVER said that Jews are saved today by keeping the Law. If they want to correct me on that they may, but I'm sure they won't.

However, on the following I speak only for myself: if an Israelite during the O.T. period had said he refused to observe the Law in favor of simply relying on the grace and mercy of God...what would have happened to him?

 

[musterion]

That is a shame because I read from cover to cover and I find no contradictions in it. It fits perfectly together how that the mystery of God, which is Christ, was made manifest to the world starting in Gen. and being fully revealed with the preaching of Paul forward. But it has always been the same mystery. No need to separate the Jew and the Gentile. What Jesus taught was just as much for us as it was to them. And the books of Hebrews, Peter, John, James, Jude do not contradict that mystery. They are all one and the same.

I have a list of apparent Bible contradictions that fool atheists usually don't even notice. Would you like me to post a few for you?

 

[vfirestormv]

How could it have been good news to anyone before anyone knew of it?

I feel confident guaranteeing you that NO m.a.d. on this board has EVER said that Jews are saved today by keeping the Law. If they want to correct me on that they may, but I'm sure they won't.

Again, I will have to look, but I am sure that is what was said. Which is what threw me for a loop.

However, on the following I speak only for myself: if an Israelite during the O.T. period had said he refused to observe the Law in favor of simply relying on the grace and mercy of God...what would have happened to him?

You are correct in that for the most part they would be killed.

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

 

[vfirestormv]

I have a list of apparent Bible contradictions that fool atheists usually don't even notice. Would you like me to post a few for you?

As far as seemingly general contradictions I do not wish to take the time to go over them or look up the reasons they seem to be a contradiction. But if they pertain to the subject at hand and the mystery of God or to one gospel then sure post them. I will do my best to show how it is not a contradiction.

 

[vfirestormv]

How could it have been good news to anyone before anyone knew of it?

They did know of it, they just didn't know exactly how or who.
It was first given in Gen.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The good news of a Messiah was preached for years upon years before He came. Good news. What did Israel look forward to? The Messiah. They just didn't know it was Jesus whom they crucified.

 

[musterion]

But if they pertain to the subject at hand and the mystery of God or to one gospel then sure post them. I will do my best to show how it is not a contradiction.

Directly or indirectly, they do. That's the reason I compiled them. Give me a few days; it's from an old website I used to have and the text is full of obsolete code I need to remove.

 

[musterion]

The good news of a Messiah was preached for years upon years before He came. Good news. What did Israel look forward to? The Messiah. They just didn't know it was Jesus whom they crucified.

Did anyone look forward to Messiah dying as good news?

 

[vfirestormv]

Did anyone look forward to Messiah dying as good news?

No, like I said, they didn't know the how or even the who, just that there was a redeemer coming. He was revealed more and more as time went by. Even when Jesus was with them and told them that He must die, they still didn't fully understand. But it was still the good news.
Since when does the knowing of the good news determine weather it is good news or not. It was definitely was good news.

Isa_41:27 The first shall say to Zion, Behold, behold them: and I will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings.

Isa_52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

Isa_61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

 

[musterion]

No, like I said, they didn't know the how or even the who, just that there was a redeemer coming.

Nor did they realize the WHAT. This is perhaps the vital point we MADs have been driving at all this time with regard to the question, "What is the Gospel?"

This is not a setup: please remind me what you believe the Gospel of salvation is today? If I were a convicted unbeliever and asked you what I had to do to be saved, what would you tell me? Be as specific as you can.

 

[heir]

I most certainly did, just yesterday. I will have to find the post when I have a chance.
Just for the record then. Which books are for us, the gentiles, that we need to follow. And which are the ones that are not for us?
Just so I can know which books of the Bible I can rip out and throw away, as there obviously is no use for them for us, and it is quite a heavy book...

All of the Bible is FOR us, but it's not all written TO us. That is not to say what you did above. We recognize that the Bible means what it says, as it says it and to whom it says it, but it's not all written to us. Simple. You wouldn't read your neighbor's mail as if it were written to you, why approach the Bible that way?

 

[heir]

What is he saying then??? He is one of your sect, is he not?

Where has anyone here said that any part of the Bible is not FOR us? I don't see it.