ECT They can't be the same

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achduke said:
Where does it say that you must know completely about the DBR to be saved?

1 Corinthians 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.

Does by which you are saved mean you need to know about it before you are saved as in a work? Or can you ask for repentance like both Peter and Paul have preached and be baptized in the name of Christ and receive the Holy Spirit who will teach you all things including the DBR by which you are saved?
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Where do Peter and Paul say to "ask for repentance"?
 
achduke

achduke

Active member
Right Divider said:
Where do Peter and Paul say to "ask for repentance"?
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Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act 20:21 "testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
revpete

revpete

New member
Cross Reference said:
Thank you, Pete. As you, it is also new to me. We have both lived by the teachings of Paul all our Christian lives which makes the point of the argument a "scratching of the head" experience. Being a new 'doctrine' to the exclusion of the gospel of Jesus Christ, I find hard to believe any sound Christian would believe without bells and whistles going off in their head. Seeing as how they haven't sounded, I can only assume they have had nothing going for them by Christ Jesus from the beginning. They cannot be born again. The proof has already been see in the pudding.

We can see from this by Peter, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Act 2:38) that repentance was needed, however, not for salvation or else Peter would not have been so narrow about what it was for. He knew he was preaching to an already, righteous Jewish crowd who were there for their sacred holiday. Now am I saying that the one who says the sinners prayer must first repent of his sins? Hey! He just heard preacher say, "come to Jesus and have your sins forgiven, et al." But that was preached on Sunday nite and now it is Monday morn! What repentance? I can see maybe plenty of happiness for redemption, even a celebration. However, has there been a surrendering of the life? Can there be a surrendering of anyone's life without true [proven] repentance that must proceed the indwelling of the Life Christ; the choosing of that one? I do think so.

So, in the sense that they hope for, they presume upon Paul's teaching that has never intended to be understood by anyone less a surrendered soul to Jesus Christ.

Because of the seemingly absence in Paul's teaching re necessary repentance for salvation, two things: 1. John 17:3 is salvation unto something that Jesus speaks of. 2. From something is what is MAD limits itself to the teaching of.

They have been persuaded that no repentance is necessary for salvation. What they don't understand by such error is that person is not of Jesus Christ as in "None of His", per Rom 8:9. There can be no abiding in them according Rom 8:2. Ergo, no forgiveness of sins.


I am open for correction in this from anyone who is apt "full gospel" teacher of the scriptures.

Thanks for the invitation to reply as you have invited me to do, Pete.

BTW. I am a man of 77+ yrs.
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Thanks CR I can see what you're saying here. Yes, true repentance is evidenced by fruit, thus sanctification comes into play but only true Christians can experience sanctification as it is a work of The Holy Spirit.

For my own conversion I was convicted of my own sin, then led to repentance by The Holy Spirit but sanctification is an on going work.

As for MADs not needing repentance, to me this says that there is a woeful lack of understanding and more importantly experience of both the Holiness of God and the seriousness of sin as God sees it. Therefore they are fulfilling the prophecy of William Booth when he said that one day there would be preached a gospel without blood or repentance. Thanks again for your reply.

Pete 👤
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
revpete said:
Thanks CR I can see what you're saying here. Yes, true repentance is evidenced by fruit, thus sanctification comes into play but only true Christians can experience sanctification as it is a work of The Holy Spirit.

For my own conversion I was convicted of my own sin, then led to repentance by The Holy Spirit but sanctification is an on going work.

As for MADs not needing repentance, to me this says that there is a woeful lack of understanding and more importantly experience of both the Holiness of God and the seriousness of sin as God sees it. Therefore they are fulfilling the prophecy of William Booth when he said that one day there would be preached a gospel without blood or repentance. Thanks again for your reply.

Pete ��
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Thank you, Pete, for your kind words and agreement. It feels good.

Awhile back, maybe on another thread, I was asked what I thought sin was [something to that effect]. My reply was one word: "relationship". I received no reply.

It is a relationship between either the devil or God, no in-between. Since God will not allow sin in His presence, we can only conclude there needs be a whole lot of soul searching that needs to be undertaken on this thread; this forum __ especially in the MAD camp where no repentance is required for salvation.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
john w said:
It was hid from them. There is more than just one piece of good news, in the book. I think you'd better learn how to survey the bible, read.

And get saved.

So there.
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Hey, I would like to be saved, do I have to know anything about Paul or his teachings in order to be saved?
 
Jamie Gigliotti

Jamie Gigliotti

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The good news is the Kingdom. Jesus taught the way to the Kingdom, then made the way. Paul also taught how to enter the Kingdom. There is one Kingdom, One way.
 
Right Divider

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achduke said:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act 20:21 "testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Neither says to "ask for repentance". Peter says REPENT! Paul says that he teaches repentance, not that it's something to be asked for.
 
john w

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
achduke said:
Where does it say that you must know completely about the DBR to be saved?

1 Corinthians 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.

Does by which you are saved mean you need to know about it before you are saved as in a work? Or can you ask for repentance like both Peter and Paul have preached and be baptized in the name of Christ and receive the Holy Spirit who will teach you all things including the DBR by which you are saved?
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I never said "you must know completely about the DBR to be saved," so knock it off.

The word "believe" is not in your vocabulary.


Memorize it.


Dig? Good.
 
achduke

achduke

Active member
john w said:
I never said "you must know completely about the DBR to be saved," so knock it off.

The word "believe" is not in your vocabulary.


Memorize it.


Dig? Good.
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So then does Paul tell you in his letters how to be saved or why you are saved? Big difference.
 
john w

john w

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Hall of Fame
achduke said:
So then does Paul tell you in his letters how to be saved or why you are saved? Big difference.
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You asserted, that I am arguing that "you must know completely about the DBR to be saved." Knock it off.


Believe.

Contrasts.

The "why's" pertain to our walk/sanctification.


"You(Archie) need to use more accurate language if you'd like to be properly understood."-RD

Agreed.
 
achduke

achduke

Active member
john w said:
You asserted, that I am arguing that "you must know completely about the DBR to be saved." Knock it off.


Believe.

Contrasts.

The "why's" pertain to our walk/sanctification.


"You(Archie) need to use more accurate language if you'd like to be properly understood."-RD

Agreed.
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I am trying to understand MAD so at the very least we will have an understanding of each other.

Why do some of the MAD people ask by what gospel are we saved? Has there ever been another? Had there ever been anyone in history that has been saved by anything other than DBR?
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
achduke said:
I am trying to understand MAD so at the very least we will have an understanding of each other.

Why do some of the MAD people ask by what gospel are we saved? Has there ever been another? Had there ever been anyone in history that has been saved by anything other than DBR?
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Fair enough.

As recorded in Luke, Christ told a woman her sins were forgiven, that her faith had saved her and she could go in peace.

What did this woman believe that saved her, caused her sins to be forgiven and gave her peace?
 
achduke

achduke

Active member
musterion said:
Fair enough.

As recorded in Luke, Christ told a woman her sins were forgiven, that her faith had saved her and she could go in peace.

What did this woman believe that saved her, forgave her sins and gave her peace?
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Her sins were forgiven her but did she have the Holy Spirit yet? Israel was constantly receiving sin offerings. Without the DBR and the Holy Spirit was she saved yet? There is difference from having your sins forgiven and from being saved.
 
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