The Word Made Flesh

Lon

Well-known member
Excellent, let's see:
Aramaic English New Testament said:
Hebrews 1:3. "So as they may be the yeast of His [Son's] glory
... and in the image of His existence,
And that he may muster all of them
... by the power of His Manifestation,
And it was with that Essence of His Trinity
... that He cleansed our sins,
He Who sits from the right of the Supreme throne in the Highest."
But do compare with Greek [with my translation notes] as well:
Heb 1:3 ὃς [Who-in this case] ὢν[οὖσα-being] ἀπαύγασμα[the rays of] τῆς [of His] δόξης[glory] καὶ[and] χαρακτὴρ τῆς[His exact expression] ὑποστάσεως[of {God's} very essence] αὐτοῦ[of His], φέρων [carrying] τε [even] τὰ πάντα [everything]τῷ ῥήματι[{by} the word] τῆς δυνάμεως[incredible power/supernatural power] αὐτοῦ [of Him], δι᾿[by/through] ἑαυτοῦ[Himself] καθαρ[clear/clean] ισμὸν ποιησάμενος [cleansing] τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν[of our sins] ἡμῶν ἐκάθισεν[He sat down] ἐν δεξιᾷ[on the right side] τῆς μεγαλωσύνης[in/of majesty] ἐν ὑψηλοῖς, [on high]
 
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jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Again, today's rendition of 'character' in English means: what makes me, me (distinctive). But in Koine, it didn't have this English derivative. It mean 'engraved image' of the one it represents.

5481 xaraktḗr – properly, an engraving; (figuratively) an exact impression (likeness) which also reflects inner character. (HELPS Word-studies)​
 

Bright Raven

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Thanks for your concern my friend but I believe they did me a great favor.
They got me to seek more about who he really is.

And that got me in a deep love for my God and my Lord. I am at peace with them. I trust their judgement of my actions. At my age I expect to see him soon and I fear not. This world is not my home, I am just passing through.......

Hope you keep studying to make sure you are in the right place.
 

Lon

Well-known member
5481 xaraktḗr – properly, an engraving; (figuratively) an exact impression (likeness) which also reflects inner character. (HELPS Word-studies)​
You are stretching to fit your unit-arian agenda what was/is never intended. Christ's character IS God, the 'exact' expression.
 

Derf

Well-known member
I trust what has be revealed to me through prayerful study of his words. Hebrews speaks of God's son that laid the foundation of the Universe. It speaks of the Express image of God, keeping in mind that God is spirit this son is also spirit. Col 1 tells us that he is the firstborn of all creatures. So what do we see? I see a created copy of the most high who was given the fullness of the Father. I see a godlike creature that God calls son. Heb 10:5 tells us that that spirit needed a body and one was provided for him.




Consider Heb 1:3:

(NRSV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

(NIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

(NASB) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

(GW) His Son is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of God's being. He holds everything together through his powerful words. After he had cleansed people from their sins, he received the highest position, the one next to the Father in heaven.

(ISV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty

The express image is the exact likeness of God, a spirit being. He took the form of man to die for us. If you see the nature of this being you see who God is. This spirit son was anointed into Jesus, it came with the power of the Father. Col 1, Phil 2. Read all of Heb 1 and see where the most high call him "O Elohim". This is the son that was SENT from heaven, Jesus was the body that held it. When they were joined God declared that this was his son.





Yes the express image, spirit son of God, is the only one created in the true likeness of the Father. Mankind was made in the image of God but in what way? His ability to think and rationalize. Jesus Christ is very unique, he is a godlike spirit who gave up his high position in heaven to become flesh in the body of Jesus. Being a creation he could die on the cross. The perfect Lamb, our Lord.

I enjoy your post friend you seem to be a thinking person.
And I have enjoyed yours as well! I think you are wrestling with a concept that is hard to deal with, and there's no shame in doing that, especially if you are doing it from the revelation God gave us.

I don't think you answered my question about how Jesus could accept worship as God.

And you seem to think that Jesus is a combination of 2 creations, the "express image spirit", created before humans (and before the world), and the human body procreated through Mary. So, did the express image spirit that created every thing, visible and invisible (Jn 1:3 and Col 1:16), create both himself (invisible) and Jesus, the visible human into which he was deposited/anointed, since nothing that was created was created by anyone else? Or is the bible wrong in those 2 verses?
 
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Word

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John
Chapter 1

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him;
and without him was not any
thing made that was made.

In him was life;
and the life was the light of men.

And the light shineth in darkness;
and the darkness comprehended it not.

There was a man sent from God,
whose name was John.

The same came for a witness,
to bear witness of the Light,
that all men through him might believe.

He was not that Light,
but was sent to bear witness
of that Light.

That was the true Light,
which lighteth every man
that cometh into the world.

He was in the world,
and the world was made by him,
and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own,
and his own received him not.

But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become
the sons of God, even to them
that believe on his name:

Which were born,
not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh,
and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him,
and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake,
He that cometh after me is preferred before me:
for he was before me.

And of his fulness have all we received,
and grace for grace.

For the law was given by Moses,
but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

No man hath seen God at any time;
the only begotten Son, which is in
the bosom of the Father,
he hath declared him.

And this is the record of John,
when the Jews sent priests and Levites
from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

And he confessed,
and denied not; but confessed,
I am not the Christ.

And they asked him,
What then? Art thou Elias?
And he saith, I am not.
Art thou that prophet?
And he answered, No.

Then said they unto him,
Who art thou? that we may give an answer
to them that sent us.
What sayest thou of thyself?

He said,
I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness,
Make straight the way of the Lord,
as said the prophet Esaias.

And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.

And they asked him,
and said unto him,
Why baptizest thou then,
if thou be not that Christ,
nor Elias, neither that prophet?

John answered them, saying,
I baptize with water:
but there standeth one among you,
whom ye know not;

He it is,
who coming after me is preferred before me,
whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan,
where John was baptizing.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him,
and saith, Behold the Lamb of God,
which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said,
After me cometh a man which is preferred before me:
for he was before me.

And I knew him not:
but that he should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.

And John bare record,
saying, I saw the Spirit descending
from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

And I knew him not:
but he that sent me to baptize with water,
the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt
see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him,
the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

And I saw,
and bare record that
this is the Son of God.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
And I have enjoyed yours as well! I think you are wrestling with a concept that is hard to deal with, and there's no shame in doing that, especially if you are doing it from the revelation God gave us.

I don't think you answered my question about how Jesus could accept worship as God.

And you seem to think that Jesus is a combination of 2 creations, the "express image spirit", created before humans (and before the world), and the human body procreated through Mary. So, did the express image spirit that created every thing, visible and invisible (Jn 1:3 and Col 1:16), create both himself (invisible) and Jesus, the visible human into which he was deposited/anointed, since nothing that was created was created by anyone else? Or is the bible wrong in those 2 verses?

God created all through his son, the express image. That spirit was sent to dwell in Jesus. The two became one and that spirit spoke through Jesus. I deeply feel that info was given to me when I was studying about the morning stars. I have tried to disprove these thoughts for a long time now, but I can't.

I do not see Jesus accepting worship as God, I see just the opposite.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Conversely, worship of any man: Acts 10:25–26; Revelation 19:9–10

And there is this: "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie — indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet and to know that I have loved you." (Revelation 3:9)

The Greek word for worship is the same as in Matthew 2:3.
 

Lon

Well-known member
And there is this: "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie — indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet and to know that I have loved you." (Revelation 3:9)
You, particularly, should listen more than you try to teach or preach because you aren't, in fact, apt to is.

1) This is not worship the word is προσκυνέω, a position of humiliation not worship.
They will be humiliated before those they persecuted and accused.

The Greek word for worship is the same as in Matthew 2:3.
???
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
You, particularly, should listen more than you try to teach or preach because you aren't, in fact, apt to is.

I'm not a teacher and I'm not a preacher and neither are you. We are both simply students and Jesus is the Teacher.

G4352 προσκυνέω proskuneō From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship. (biblehub.com)

This is the same word translated worship in Hebrews 1:6.
 
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