The Word Made Flesh

[KingdomRose]

Adam was made flesh,
Adam was not born of flesh.

When was Jesus made flesh?

When he was conceived in the womb of Mary.

 

[KingdomRose]

Was He born of flesh?

Yes he was. He had to be a perfect human being, just like Adam was (before he rebelled).

 

[Word]

When he was conceived in the womb of Mary.

Are you certain that this is the first time that Jesus
walked on earth in the flesh?

 

[Word]

Yes he was. He had to be a perfect human being, just like Adam was (before he rebelled).

If Jesus was perfect then why is it written in your bible

Luke 13:32
And he said unto them, Go ye,
and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils,
and I do cures to day and to morrow,
and the third day I shall be perfected.

 

[KingdomRose]

Did Jesus exist before He was conceived?

Yes he did, as he himself testifies. (John 17:5; John 8:42)

 

[Word]

Yes he did, as he himself testifies. (John 17:5; John 8:42)

In what image did Jesus exist before He was conceived?

 

[KingdomRose]

Who was Jesus that it was necessary for Him to become flesh?

Some perfect individual had to take Adam's place in the scheme of things. Jehovah said, "An eye for an eye," so how could the scales of justice be balanced after the perfect Adam decided to rebel? Jesus was a perfect individual in heaven. Any of the angels could have volunteered to come down and balance the scales, but Jesus wanted to do it, undoubtedly.

He came here to do what Paul talked about in Romans. "As through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous." (Rom.5:18)

 

[KingdomRose]

The term "god" and the term "lord" are titles. Paul said, "...yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we for Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

However, the Father has given the Son the capability of imparting eternal life, which makes Jesus also God.

There is one God in the same way our nation is one nation, but not one person. You don't comprehend the kingdom of God.

E pluribus unum.

God giving Jesus authority doesn't make Jesus equal to Almighty God, because he was GIVEN that authority. I agree with you that Jesus is a mighty, important being, and that is what "god" means, after all. So he can be called A god, but not equal to the Almighty who gave him power and authority.

 

[Word]

God is the origin of all life.
In fact, God is life.
God has always existed.

Therefore life has always existed
because God is the origin of life.

God did not create Himself.
Therefore God did not create life.
It always existed.

Because God always existed.

God is a Spirit.
John 4-24 :God is a Spirit:

The Spirit of Life.
God did not create Himself.
Therefore God hence the Spirit of Life has always existed.
Therefore God is the origin of all life.

Note*** There are no dead spirits.
God did not make Himself come alive.

Is God the Father of all spirits?

I have read and heard many interpretations and variations
of diverse kinds of doctrines to which all derived from
the phrase " the word made flesh ".

John - Chapter 1

Verse 1

In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.

1. The beginning of what?

Note*** God has no beginning or end.

Therefore it cannot be the beginning of life.

for God is life and has no beginning
nor no end.

 

[jamie]

God giving Jesus authority doesn't make Jesus equal to Almighty God, because he was GIVEN that authority. I agree with you that Jesus is a mighty, important being, and that is what "god" means, after all. So he can be called A god, but not equal to the Almighty who gave him power and authority.

Are you equal to the U.S. president in terms of citizenship? (one vote, one person)

God is a kingdom and Paul said, "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all" (1 Corinthians 15:28).

 

[jamie]

The wages of sin is death. Christ had no sin. Had He not given His life he would never had died.

He was born to die, that was his mission in life. Jesus metaphorically became sin, everyone's sin. He had no power of his own.

 

[Word]

He was born to die, that was his mission in life. Jesus metaphorically became sin, everyone's sin. He had no power of his own.

How did Jesus become sin?

First they say Jesus is God
and God became flesh then God became sin.

What is next?

God is the devil too?

Oh God when will all this stupidity end?

 

[Word]

I have read through some of what you all have said.

Most all of it or at least the majority of it is incorrect.

 

[Word]

But God did tell me

They will not know they do not know.

And even if you tell them they will not believe you.

 

[Word]

So

Lets start from the beginning.

The very basics of truth.

There are only two races of people on all the earth.

Who are they?

Do any of you know this very simple basic truth?

 

[Cross Reference]

I followed her posts and she is into details about the topic using theologians' knowledge.

Her knowledge seems to come from them.

But is it knowledge or merely an excuse for willful ignorance?

 

[Cross Reference]

Some perfect individual had to take Adam's place in the scheme of things. Jehovah said, "An eye for an eye," so how could the scales of justice be balanced after the perfect Adam decided to rebel?

Try this out: If the human being was meant to be more than what Adam was then Adam was not yet as God intended him to be. Ergo, Adam was not perfect. Perfection in God, doesn't rebel. Adam, in his sinless state, could only have touched it until he had eaten of the "Tree of Life". At that point would he have secured to himself the power from an indwelling of the Word of God before any more moral choices would have needed to be made, if any at all..

Jesus was a perfect individual when in heaven.

But, when in heaven before His incarnation, Jesus was not human. He was the Word of God who expressed/spoke the Heart of God in/from a Divine form in Whose image man was created; Who would be made fully human by being set in one Baby born of Adam's race who would instruct Him in the ways of son-ship in the Father, to Whom He would be a Son. 1John 1 and 2 speak of this as a challenge to us.

Any of the angels could have volunteered to come down and balance the scales, but Jesus wanted to do it, undoubtedly.

Angels could never have qualified to take the place of Jesus Who was a human born of Adam's race, born with a universal substance called, "blood". Blood is how all of mankind could and would be infected with sin and how all of mankind would be redeemed from it's penalty. Angels have no blood to offer as on;y a human could. Angels were created beings made one at a time. Who could ever redeem fallen Angels? No one, which makes humankind very precious and needful to God for His bringing about what He has purposed in Himself, i.e, to have "MANY Sons brought unto glory" per Heb 2:10(KJV)!

He came here to do what Paul talked about in Romans. "As through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous." (Rom.5:18)

All made dirty by dirty blood __ All made clean by clean blood. . .

Does that makes sense?

 

[Cross Reference]

Cross, I have to apologize. I haven't been on forums in years, and I get too easily defensive and caught up. what I say may have been true (even if you disagree) but it was not said in Love. I did not bring forth the quality/character/activity of Love, and for that I am truly sorry. I am confessing my fault to you. I have felt awful all day since I reacted such. Please forgive me.

No worries and thank you, my sister. No one is more guilty than me for which I need your forgiveness as well. As hard as I try to be otherwise, I fail. But then perhaps, this is the reason for forums that we learn what God is really trying to teach us when truly sincere hearts are put to the test for what we believe is true.

We clearly have a lot of disagreements here, coming from very different perspectives. I want to from henceforth more graciously, thoughtfully, and intentionally respond.

The operative word indeed is "perspectives".

My problems with kenoticism are thus:

Sorry but, the meaning of "kenoticism" is lost on me.

1. It emphasizes Christ's humanity inordinately, and so

2. Too much distinguishes Father and Son into separate beings, not just separate persons. I have heard many who teach/are taught this doctrine to refer to the trinity as three GUYS, or DUDES, which the fathers at Nicea never intended.

3. It is not about what Christ's actions. It is about who He was, and what He did only because of who He was. If he was not authentically divine, then it is invalid.

And that 1 Cor passage is only talking about passing experiential knowledge (gnosis) according to meat sacrificed to idols, not clear and exact experiential knowledge by divine revelation of faith (epignosis).

I just sent this to KingdomRose:


[QUOTE=KingdomRose;4680030]

*Some perfect individual had to take Adam's place in the scheme of things. Jehovah said, "An eye for an eye," so how could the scales of justice be balanced after the perfect Adam decided to rebel?

Try this out: If the human being was meant to be more than what Adam was then Adam was not yet as God intended him to be. Ergo, Adam was not perfect. Perfection in God, doesn't rebel. Adam, in his sinless state, could only have touched it until he had eaten of the "Tree of Life". At that point would he have secured to himself the power from an indwelling of the Word of God before any more moral choices would have needed to be made, if any at all..

*Jesus was a perfect individual when in heaven.

But, when in heaven before His incarnation, Jesus was not human. He was the Word of God who expressed/spoke the Heart of God in/from a Divine form in Whose image man was created; Who would be made fully human by being set in one Baby born of Adam's race who would instruct Him in the ways of son-ship in the Father, to Whom He would be a Son. 1John 1 and 2 speak of this as a challenge to us.

*Any of the angels could have volunteered to come down and balance the scales, but Jesus wanted to do it, undoubtedly.

Angels could never have qualified to take the place of Jesus Who was a human born of Adam's race, born with a universal substance called, "blood". Blood is how all of mankind could and would be infected with sin and how all of mankind would be redeemed from it's penalty. Angels have no blood to offer as on;y a human could. Angels were created beings made one at a time. Who could ever redeem fallen Angels? No one, which makes humankind very precious and needful to God for His bringing about what He has purposed in Himself, i.e, to have "MANY Sons brought unto glory" per Heb 2:10(KJV)!

*He came here to do what Paul talked about in Romans. "As through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous." (Rom.5:18)

All made dirty by dirty blood __ All made clean by clean blood. . .

Does that help in making sense as to where I stand in this matter?


OMT: You wrote above in another thread:

We had the natural in Israel. Now we have the Spiritual in Christ. (1 Corinthians 15) Thus the natural must be subordinate to the spiritual.

Keeping in mind that Jesus was vulnerable to Satan and it was His responsibility to protect Himself from perdition, If we could only understand that God had such confidence in His human son Jesus that He willingly subordinated Himself to Him [equal submission]. In other words, [up front] whatever Jesus wanted to do God would pay the price irrespective of the outcome of His choice in the matter.

The reason we have a future in God ahead of us instead eternal damnation is because Jesus never failed in His allegiance to His Father and He learned His allegiance from the written scriptures, taught Him by the Holy Spirit.

 

[meshak]

But is it knowledge or merely an excuse for willful ignorance?

I don't believe in seeking the Truth from men, any man, no matter how popular or smart they are.

Christianity is all about Jesus and His teachings.

His teachings are not complicated at all.

Those "smart" or "highly intelligent" or "very scholastic theologians" are not as nearly as smart as Jesus when it comes to God's kingsom. There is no comparison.

Jesus says don't let anyone call you a teacher because He is the Teacher.

I just started a thread about the whole truth gospel.

I encourage you to read it, friend.

In fact, I am prepared part two now.

 

[Cross Reference]

I don't believe in seeking the Truth from men, any man, no matter how popular or smart they are.

Can you see that by that appproach to understanding you just might have had a problem with Jesus?

Christianity is all about Jesus and His teachings.

Which have no light in them of themselves, correct?

His teachings are not complicated at all.

As principles to live by, impossibly difficult to live out.

Those "smart" or "highly intelligent" or "very scholastic theologians" are not as nearly as smart as Jesus when it comes to God's kingsom. There is no comparison.

Maybe, maybe not. If you [or me] could understand their sometimes complicated vocabulary, don't you think you might find agreement in some of what they are saying?

Jesus says don't let anyone call you a teacher because He is the Teacher.

Why not? If I said I was a son of my Father, what would be your reply?

I just started a thread about the whole truth gospel.

I encourage you to read it, friend.

In fact, I am prepared part two now.

By that you are stating that you are a teacher???

Perhaps you can help me out with that? You are leaving me a bit confused.