The UN demands the US pay Reparations

[genuineoriginal]

I think we may as well send the UN a bill and get out.

The UN is existing rent free on American soil and needs to pay rent.

This can be done by insisting that the UN issue carbon credits to offset all the CO2 production done in the USA, which will also solve global warming.

 

[HisServant]

I think this might be justified; for all those black people who can trace their ancestors back to slavery.

What do you honestly think they would do with it.... 70%+ of lottery ticket winners are in serious financial trouble within 5 years of their windfalls.

Most would squander the money and then come back to the trough.... it doesn't matter what color they are.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I think this might be justified; for all those black people who can trace their ancestors back to slavery.

Not quite.

They must also prove that their ancestors were kidnapped by white slavers instead of already being slaves that were purchased from Muslims and neighboring African tribes.

 

[genuineoriginal]

If your father had made a fortune illegally imprisoning others and forcing them to work, and then you inherited that ill-gotten wealth, would the heirs of those people forced to work not have a case against his estate for at least the amount that it profited you and your family?

This country was built with slave labor, and while the slaves may have been freed, the labor was never paid for in any form. Shouldn't we at least try?

My ancestors never owned slaves as far as the historical documentation and family history shows.

Why should I pay for something I never had any part of?

 

[ok doser]

My ancestors never owned slaves as far as the historical documentation and family history shows.

Why should I pay for something I never had any part of?

and who's gonna account for the advantages those slaves and their ancestors had over all their relatives still living in squalor, deprivation and disease in africa?

 

[The Berean]

Writer Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote this long essay on the case for reparations for black Americans.

The Case for Reparations


Here is the National Review's response to Coates essay.

The Case against Reparations

 

[HisServant]

Not quite.

They must also prove that their ancestors were kidnapped by white slavers instead of already being slaves that were purchased from Muslims and neighboring African tribes.

True, people seem to forget that they only reason the slave trade could exist was that the tribes of Africa had a lot of people they didnt want and instead of just killing them, they could make a quick buck selling them. There were many wealthy kings in Africa that made their wealth from capturing and selling slaves.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Why don't you go back to England, or Scotland, or wherever your ancestors are from?

My ancestors came here voluntarily.

You are claiming that black people did not come here voluntarily, so they should have no claim on remaining here voluntarily.

 

[Selaphiel]

Be that as it may, this speaks absolutely nothing to its quality as music. There may be excellent poets in the hip hop genre (I doubt this). There may be excellent social commentators in the hip hop genre (I doubt this). But there are no good musicians in the hip hop genre.

You doubt it on what grounds? The musical quality of hip hop is not about melodic complexity, it is about beat and the flow of the lyrics.

Jazz and blues are excellent! But the question here is whether the blacks owe reparations, or else, whether we owe reparations. In order to answer that, we must ask whether blacks have cost more than they have produced, or whether they have produced more than they have cost.

No, the question is whether they suffered unjust systemic abuse.

And I consider hip hop and the hip hop culture a MASSIVE cost in comparison to jazz and the blues, which are comparatively minor gains on their part.

And? What do you know about music? You have a Metallica album as your avatar...Just saying, the epitome of popularist mediocrity within metal.

Sure, because all of the black criminality rates can be reduced to being poor. For example, rape. For example, murder. For example, absolutely any other violent crime which is not theft-related. For example, the possession of narcotics and other illegal drugs for the purpose of recreational use.

Social studies disagree with you. Poverty and the lack of oppurtunities that come with that are a rather strong correlate of crimes like that.

except, perhaps, to send those black people back to Africa and wipe our hands of them once and for all.

Yeah, you are not racist, not at all. Your statements sounds like something off a Johnny Rebel album.

That's almost 50 years ago.

That's one and a half generation, nothing on a historical scale. Your understanding of social issues are lacking to say the least. Do you think a systemic issue like the virulent racism just ended over night in 1968 and that all issues were solved just like that? Seriously, how naive are you?

 

[genuineoriginal]

they of all people have at least earned the right to live here in this land that we forced them to build for our benefit.

I see you (alone) are taking responsibility for enslaving black people.
Therefore, you (alone) should pay restitution.
Problem solved.

 

[Traditio]

Writer Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote this long essay on the case for reparations for black Americans.

The Case for Reparations

What's the TL;DR for it? Can it be reduced to a straight forward syllogism?

1. Premise
2. Premise
3. Therefore, black people are owed reparations?

 

[Traditio]

You doubt it on what grounds? The musical quality of hip hop is not about melodic complexity, it is about beat and the flow of the lyrics.

QED.

"What need have we of witnesses?"

No, the question is whether they suffered unjust systemic abuse.

Not in the context in which I was speaking. RexLunae's claim was that white people have benefited because of slavery unjustly, and that in comparable cases, the defendants of such a case should have to forfeit their gains to the plaintiffs.

The question I subsequently asked:

Is it the case that, in the long run, we actually have gained more than we have lost?

Against this claim, I present rap music. Nuff said.

And? What do you know about music?

Enough to know that it generally involves instruments.

You have a Metallica album as your avatar...Just saying, the epitome of popularist mediocrity within metal.

They use instruments. Just saying.

Social studies disagree with you. Poverty and the lack of oppurtunities that come with that are a rather strong correlate of crimes like that.

Note the key word.

Yeah, you are not racist, not at all. Your statements sounds like something off a Johnny Rebel album.

Let's suppose that I'm a racist. Calling me a racist isn't an argument in favor of your position or against mine. It's a complete ad hominem. :idunno:

 

[genuineoriginal]

The United Negro College Fund comes to mind.

I personally know a white person of Jewish descent that received funding from the United Negro College Fund...

:think:

 

[ok doser]

I personally know a white person of Jewish descent that received funding from the United Negro College Fund...

:think:

i personally know a white person

 

[Traditio]

Furthermore, Selaphiel, let the record show that any given Johnny Rebel album has much more musical quality than any hip hop album ever.

Say what you want about the lyrics, but musically? Well...it is music.

 

[genuineoriginal]

There's good research indicating that in the economy in general, job applicants having "black sounding" names are far less likely to get a call back for a job interview.

It comes down to whether the person has assimilated into the American culture or is refusing to be assimilated.

Well, I don't believe that there's a single federal program that's race-exclusive. Some colleges give preferences to racial minorities to increase their diversity because they recognize that its in their best interests.

Yes, colleges and universities give preference to racial minorities because it is in their best interests to continue to receive Federal funding in the forms of student loans and grants, despite having to admit people based on race that do not meet the admission standards set for general admission.

the purpose of programs like the Pell grants is to mitigate the intergenerational wealth advantages, and increase social and economic mobility for people at a disadvantage. Those are generally positive goals, which may be meaningfully advanced with means tests.

In other words, this is sufficient reparation for any perceived loss in social or economic means due to having dark skin?

 

[genuineoriginal]

well, not all of them :Shimei:

That could be considered reparations for this:

 

[Selaphiel]

QED.

"What need have we of witnesses?"

If you knew anything about music, you would know that beat is a musical concept. Hip hop and rap focuses on beat and rhytm over melody.

Not in the context in which I was speaking. RexLunae's claim was that white people have benefited because of slavery unjustly, and that in comparable cases, the defendants of such a case should have to forfeit their gains to the plaintiffs.

The question I subsequently asked:

Is it the case that, in the long run, we actually have gained more than we have lost?

"We have gained" and "we have lost". Are they not part of that "we" themselves? What if their lacking productivity is due to the very abuse they seek reparations for?

Against this claim, I present rap music. Nuff said.

Your musical preference is not an argument.

Enough to know that it generally involves instruments.

So acapella and Gregorian chant is not music? That's a rather strange definition of music.

Music is defined by instruments only insofar that instruments are what makes us able to produce melody, beat, rhytm and harmony.

Hip-hop and rap doesn't use instruments? It may use synthesizers and the human voice and what not, but their purpose is to produce melody, beat, rhytm, melody and harmony as well. Rap and Hip hop focusing on beat and rhytm.

Note the key word.

Yes, because social scientists have no idea how to check correlations and form proper hypotheses...

Let's suppose that I'm a racist. Calling me a racist isn't an argument in favor of your position or against mine. It's a complete ad hominem

It would be an ad hominem fallacy if I followed it up with a "therefore you are wrong".

"You are an idiot." Is not an ad hominem fallacy, it is just rude.

"You are an idiot, therefore you are wrong." That would be an ad hominem fallacy.

 

[genuineoriginal]

i personally know a white person

You need to be more specific than that.
There is more than one white person in the area of Canada you claim to be living in.

:think:

Why don't we try to get Canada to pay reparations for American slavery?

 

[ok doser]

You need to be more specific than that.
There is more than one white person in the area of Canada you claim to be living in.

:think:

Why don't we try to get Canada to pay reparations for American slavery?

i live in the us - about 4 miles from the border

and canada's busy trying to accommodate their indigenous peoples - heck, they were still taking their children away from them twenty years ago, trying to kill the culture

it's a mess

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system