The Two Faces of the Sabbath

[Ben Masada]

The Two Facets of the Sabbath

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.

5 - The ritual about the Sabbath is to work six fixed and unchanged days and rest on the Sabbath within an unchanged weekly cycle.

 

[daqq]

The Two Faces of the Sabbath

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.

5 - The ritual about the Sabbath is to work six fixed and unchanged days and rest on the Sabbath within an unchanged weekly cycle.

How do you understand "a Shabbat in its Shabbat" from Numbers 28:10?

 

[Ben Masada]

How do you understand "a Shabbat in its Shabbat" from Numbers 28:10?

When a festival which is observed like a Sabbath falls in the weekly Sabbath. That's a Shabbat in its Shabbat. Is it how you understand it too? That's for the Jews only. Gentiles only if they join God's Covenant with His People according to Halacha. (Isaiah 56:1-8)

 

[daqq]

When a festival which is observed like a Sabbath falls in the weekly Sabbath. That's a Shabbat in its Shabbat. Is it how you understand it too? That's for the Jews only. Gentiles only if they join God's Covenant with His People according to Halacha. (Isaiah 56:1-8)

No, that is not how I understand the passage but was curious after having seen the title of your thread, ("two faces", (which could be understood as "two facets")), and thought that I would ask a little more beyond your opening post. However, rather than send your thread down a rabbit trail so early, I will let you continue with whatever you had planned so as to point your thread in the direction you wish it to go. Thanks for your response.

 

[clefty]

The Two Faces of the Sabbath

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.

5 - The ritual about the Sabbath is to work six fixed and unchanged days and rest on the Sabbath within an unchanged weekly cycle.

Jews only uh?

They were only one tribe of Israel...the one tribe that divided Israel and made her fall

And the commandment includes the stranger to keep and benefit from it...the irony of it being the only one of the 10 that does so...

One law for Israel and none Israelite...

Isaiah affirms it:

Isaiah 56: 6"Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant; 7Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples."…

Is why He said Sabbath was made for man not just Jews...

We become part of the spiritual house of Israel not a member the Jews...

 

[Ben Masada]

No, that is not how I understand the passage but was curious after having seen the title of your thread, ("two faces", (which could be understood as "two facets")), and thought that I would ask a little more beyond your opening post. However, rather than send your thread down a rabbit trail so early, I will let you continue with whatever you had planned so as to point your thread in the direction you wish it to go. Thanks for your response.

The reason why I wrote this thread was to explain what is for the Jews and what is for Gentiles as the Sabbath is concerned. Also because Paul said in Romans 14 that the Gentiles can keep any day they please or even no day at all and still be doing for the Lord. BTW, Paul was right on this view of his but, not to keep any day at all, I find it to be a little on the side of an exaggeration because, physically, we all need a day of rest after six days of hard work.

 

[Ben Masada]

Jews only uh? They were only one tribe of Israel...the one tribe that divided Israel and made her fal. And the commandment includes the stranger to keep and benefit from it...the irony of it being the only one of the 10 that does so...One law for Israel and none Israelite...Isaiah affirms it: Isaiah 56: 6"Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant; 7Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples."… Is why He said Sabbath was made for man not just Jews...We become part of the spiritual house of Israel not a member the Jews...

Yes, Clefty, I even feel flattered by your words but, I hope I won't be raining on your parade but, Isaiah 56:1-8 is for those from among the Gentiles who convert to Judaism according to Halacha. I mean, who decide to join God's Covenant with His People.

 

[clefty]

The reason why I wrote this thread was to explain what is for the Jews and what is for Gentiles as the Sabbath is concerned. Also because Paul said in Romans 14 that the Gentiles can keep any day they please or even no day at all and still be doing for the Lord. BTW, Paul was right on this view of his but, not to keep any day at all, I find it to be a little on the side of an exaggeration because, physically, we all need a day of rest after six days of hard work.

Romans 14 is about fasting...nothing there about Sabbath...

This chapter is about 'doubtful things'. Commandments of Yahweh are not doubtful things, especially when Yahweh writes them with His own finger.

There is no mention of the Sabbath in this chapter.

This stance does not agree with other scriptures that uphold the Sabbath. In order to believe this, you would have to inject it into the text, based on a preconceived belief. We cannot use Romans 14:5 alone as our basis for setting aside the Sabbath.

The alternative to esteeming one day above another is to esteem "every day." If this were talking about the Sabbath, it would mean that every day is a day of rest and we would not be able to work at all.

It isn't man who makes the Sabbath day above all other days. It is Yahweh who sanctified and blessed the 7th day when He created the world. We are just commanded to keep it sanctified so that it is not defiled.

It would disregard other passages in the book of Romans such as Romans 8:7 which says "the carnal mind is enmity against Elohim; for it is not subject to the law." Thus, it cannot be referring to the observance of days which the law specifically tell us to observe. This chapter is about doubtful or disputable things. Unless we want to be "at enmity" with Yahweh, there are no other sides of the issue to dispute.

http://www.eliyah.com/romans14.html

 

[clefty]

Yes, Clefty, I even feel flattered by your words but, I hope I won't be raining on your parade but, Isaiah 56:1-8 is for those from among the Gentiles who convert to Judaism according to Halacha. I mean, who decide to join God's Covenant with His People.

Nothing there about conversion to judiasm to worship on Sabbath...

Or did the rest of Israel itself have to convert as well?...do all nations which come to worship at the house of prayer for all nations have to become Jews do they? LoL...

No surprise nor nothing new in your implications as Jews did end up taxing their own brothers to come and worship so much it led to civil war and ultimate downfall of Israel forever...

The gall of it...Sabbath was made for man not Jews

 

[TweetyBird]

Romans 14 is about fasting...nothing there about Sabbath...

No, Rom 14 is not just about fasting.

This chapter is about 'doubtful things'. Commandments of Yahweh are not doubtful things, especially when Yahweh writes them with His own finger.

The Mosaic Law became "doubtful" when Christ died. it was never for the Gentiles. And it ceased to be a covenant with Israel.

There is no mention of the Sabbath in this chapter.

That is because the Sabbath is no longer a specific day - it's whatever day you want it to be, if you choose. If you choose not to single out a day, there is nothing wrong with that. Every day belongs to the Lord.

This stance does not agree with other scriptures that uphold the Sabbath.

There is no Scripture in the NT that commands anyone to upholds the Sabbath.

In order to believe this, you would have to inject it into the text, based on a preconceived belief. We cannot use Romans 14:5 alone as our basis for setting aside the Sabbath.

That is an erroneous view. Those in Christ who do not keep a Sabbath day believe that Christ is the Sabbath Rest and therefore they are not setting it aside. Paul is clearly stating that if one wants to set a day aside, that's fine, but it's not necessary.

The alternative to esteeming one day above another is to esteem "every day." If this were talking about the Sabbath, it would mean that every day is a day of rest and we would not be able to work at all.

Every day is a day of rest in Christ. That He is the Sabbath has nothing to do with physical labor. The Sabbath now, in Him, is not about refraining from physical labor. He did not cease from physical labor on the Sabbath, nor did He command His disciples to refrain from working.

It isn't man who makes the Sabbath day above all other days. It is Yahweh who sanctified and blessed the 7th day when He created the world. We are just commanded to keep it sanctified so that it is not defiled.

No we are not commanded such a thing. The only ones who were commanded to do that was the nation of Israel as a sign that they were God's people. Hebrews tells us that they never kept that commandment because of unbelief, yet you think you can.

God rested and sanctified the day FOR HIMSELF. It was not given to anyone, no one kept the Sabbath Day until it was given to Israel.

It would disregard other passages in the book of Romans such as Romans 8:7 which says "the carnal mind is enmity against Elohim; for it is not subject to the law." Thus, it cannot be referring to the observance of days which the law specifically tell us to observe. This chapter is about doubtful or disputable things. Unless we want to be "at enmity" with Yahweh, there are no other sides of the issue to dispute.

The carnal commandment is the entire Law of Moses.

http://www.eliyah.com/romans14.html[/url]

I knew you were getting your wacky ideas from someone. That site is really messed up.

 

[TweetyBird]

Nothing there about conversion to judiasm to worship on Sabbath...

Or did the rest of Israel itself have to convert as well?...do all nations which come to worship at the house of prayer for all nations have to become Jews do they? LoL...

No surprise nor nothing new in your implications as Jews did end up taxing their own brothers to come and worship so much it led to civil war and ultimate downfall of Israel forever...

The gall of it...Sabbath was made for man not Jews

Yes, those who joined Israel had to keep the Mosaic Law and be circumcised in order to be part of Israel. Gentiles that lived within Israel's borders also had to keep some commandments, but not all of them. You must not spend much time reading the Law of Moses. You like to keep pushing your agenda, but you are really not that knowledgeable about the Law. The Sabbath was given to the JEWS/Israel, no one else, ever.

 

[clefty]

Yes, those who joined Israel had to keep the Mosaic Law and be circumcised in order to be part of Israel. Gentiles that lived within Israel's borders also had to keep some commandments, but not all of them. You must not spend much time reading the Law of Moses. You like to keep pushing your agenda, but you are really not that knowledgeable about the Law. The Sabbath was given to the JEWS/Israel, no one else, ever.

"The sabbath was made for man Jews."

There fixed it to have Him say what you want Him to say...

Lol...guess He was lying when He said what He did...

"From new moon to new moon from Sabbath to Sabbath all only Jews will come worship..."

Fixed Isaiah's lying words too...

 

[dontaskmeidontknow]

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.
refute- neither were practiced in the time of Noah and did not have any definitions that we know of,this is pure assumption.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

refute- again the 7 laws of "MAN" do not include the Sabbath.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God.

agreed-however this contradicts your first two points.

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.
refute- No,the Law says that id a loved one is stray on the Rest day it is LAWFULL to save them,As David did.

 

[TweetyBird]

"The sabbath was made for man Jews."

There fixed it to have Him say what you want Him to say...

Lol...guess He was lying when He said what He did...

"From new moon to new moon from Sabbath to Sabbath all only Jews will come worship..."

Fixed Isaiah's lying words too...

Yes, the physical sabbath was given to the Jewish people. The Sabbath aka Jesus was given to mankind because He is eternal rest for all those who believe in Him.

Isaiah's prophecy is not about the literal 7th day Sabbath. It's a prophecy about Jesus Christ, who is our Sabbath Rest.

 

[jamie]

Is why He said Sabbath was made for man not just Jews...

Yes, the Sabbath existed for humanity long before the Jews.

And the Sabbath existed before Moses' law.

In fact, the Sabbath is an integral part of the law of Christ.

 

[jamie]

No surprise nor nothing new in your implications as Jews did end up taxing their own brothers to come and worship so much it led to civil war and ultimate downfall of Israel forever...

Yes, foreign currency had to be changed to local currency for the temple.

And the money changers charged a few for the exchange. They were making money at the law's expense.

Jesus considered this to be thievery.

 

[jamie]

Yes, the physical sabbath was given to the Jewish people. The Sabbath aka Jesus was given to mankind because He is eternal rest for all those who believe in Him.

Isaiah's prophecy is not about the literal 7th day Sabbath. It's a prophecy about Jesus Christ, who is our Sabbath Rest.

There were no Jews at creation.

The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of the millennial Sabbath.

Jesus suffered for six hours on the cross before he died, an hour for each millennial day.

Those who don't observe the weekly rest need not be concerned about the millennial rest.

The Sabbath is an integral part of the law of Christ.

Jesus is the Lord (Master/Teacher) of the Sabbath.

 

[TweetyBird]

Yes, foreign currency had to be changed to local currency for the temple.

And the money changers charged a few for the exchange. They were making money at the law's expense.

Jesus considered this to be thievery.

They were also selling doves and lambs, etc for sacrifices to make money.

 

[TweetyBird]

There were no Jews at creation.

The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of the millennial Sabbath.

Jesus suffered for six hours on the cross before he died, an hour for each millennial day.


Those who don't observe the weekly rest need not be concerned about the millennial rest.

The Sabbath is an integral part of the law of Christ.

Jesus is the Lord (Master/Teacher) of the Sabbath.

There was no Sabbath given to man at creation.

What does 6 mil have to do with the Sabbath? And when exactly is this 6 mil?

Jesus suffered more than just 6 hrs on the cross.

The Sabbath is an integral part of the Law of Christ in that He is the Sabbath. It is another day any longer per Hebrews - the "Day of Christ" aka salvation in Him.

Jesus did not teach about the Sabbath - He said that He is peace and rest - not a physical day. The Sabbath was given to Israel for physical rest and to keep the day holy and set aside unto God - a carnal fleshly commandment. Jesus did not take physical rest on the Sabbath - He worked - His own words. We do not need to rest on the Sabbath to make the day holy. The "Day" is now Jesus Christ and in Him we are holy and acknowledge His holiness 24/7. That is whole point of the Sabbath in Him. We can continue to work for the Kingdom 24/7 and live for Him by serving others. THAT honors the Sabbath in Him.

 

[jamie]

Jesus did not take physical rest on the Sabbath - He worked - His own words.

Jesus worked on the Sabbath only after he was anointed as a priest of Melchizedek.

Matthew 12:5-8 NASB Or have you not read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent? But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here. But if you had known what this means, ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION AND NOT A SACRIFICE,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.

Before the Father anointed Jesus as a priest he was a builder and there is no record of him sinning.

If you don't honor Jesus' Sabbath you are stealing time from him. He set one day per week aside as his time.