It was the Lord God
that instructed me to ask you it.
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
that instructed me to ask you it.
LOL, No God didn't instruct you.
I like Ephesians 3:14-17
14 When I think of all this, I fall to my knees and pray to the Father, 15 the Creator of everything in heaven and on earth. 16 I pray that from his glorious, unlimited resources he will empower you with inner strength through his Spirit. 17 Then Christ will make his home in your hearts as you trust in him. Your roots will grow down into God’s love and keep you strong.
Better safe than sorry.
LOL, if I believed you, I'd be sorry.
I like Ephesians 3:14-17
14 When I think of all this, I fall to my knees and pray to the Father, 15 the Creator of everything in heaven and on earth. 16 I pray that from his glorious, unlimited resources he will empower you with inner strength through his Spirit. 17 Then Christ will make his home in your hearts as you trust in him. Your roots will grow down into God’s love and keep you strong.
If you have shown or proved nothing why post it?
Yes - Rosenritter .
Thank You kindly for responding to my post. I have been doing some serious thinking about many things that You and others here have been saying.
Please realize that - The term " Right hand " was a phraze that was inserted into the Bible by - Trinitarian Translatlators also - the The Roman Catholic Trinitarians and then later - The Church Of England also.
They did this because they sought to align the Bible to conform to their own personal faith. For whatever reason, they felt that adding these changes - would solidify and bring intergity and lay to rest and entomb their personal faith into the translation.
William Tyndale - in His perverted Translation, He as well.
William Tyndale, also changed many of His verses - The Tyndale Bible is in contradiction to The Douay Rhiems and The KJV.
For example, 1Pe 3:22 - in the Tyndale Bible here in verse 22
{ Christ } - """ Which is our right hand of God and is gone into heaven, angels power and might subdued unto him. """
Notice the later Trinitarian Translations are saying something entirely different.
JKV - 1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Wiliam Tyndale added the word " OUR " RIGHT HAND - into the verse.
But the manuscripts do not have the word " OUR " Right Hand - in the verse. The verse says nothing whatsoever about Christ being OUR Right Hand Of God.
The Translators are all over the map in adding extra words to the texts in order to explain their personal theories, philosophical views and doctrines.
Is Christ " OUR Right Hand Of God "
in the verse
OR is He simply " on the right hand of God " ? ?
Also the word " Godhead " was another word that was added into the translation. The word that Trinitarians claim in " GODHEAD " is simply the Greek word G2320 - θεότης
theotēs - theh-ot'-ace =- Meaning = divinity.
The word G2320 - θεότης - theotēs - theh-ot'-ace
has absolutly nothing to do with a " HEAD " or THE HEAD.
it simply means The God Character, God - Ness or God - Ture or God Nature and Character Of God.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with Gods HEAD or the HEAD OF GOD.
This is what the Trinitarians did through the entire Translation in this and many, many other subjects. Even in - things in dealing with Polygamy marriage and also the position of Yahoshua existing in the RIGHT OF THE THRONE - IN THE RIGHT OF GOD and IN THE RIGHT OF POWER.
I explained and demonstrated these and many other instances in previous posts. Thanks for responding. I have been away helping my family re organize our cattle for the winter. God Bless.
Thank You kindly for responding to my post. I have been doing some serious thinking about many things that You and others here have been saying.
Please realize that - The term " Right hand " was a phraze that was inserted into the Bible by - Trinitarian Translatlators also - the The Roman Catholic Trinitarians and then later - The Church Of England also.
They did this because they sought to align the Bible to conform to their own personal faith. For whatever reason, they felt that adding these changes - would solidify and bring intergity and lay to rest and entomb their personal faith into the translation.
William Tyndale - in His perverted Translation, He as well.
William Tyndale, also changed many of His verses - The Tyndale Bible is in contradiction to The Douay Rhiems and The KJV.
For example, 1Pe 3:22 - in the Tyndale Bible here in verse 22
{ Christ } - """ Which is our right hand of God and is gone into heaven, angels power and might subdued unto him. """
Notice the later Trinitarian Translations are saying something entirely different.
JKV - 1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Wiliam Tyndale added the word " OUR " RIGHT HAND - into the verse.
But the manuscripts do not have the word " OUR " Right Hand - in the verse. The verse says nothing whatsoever about Christ being OUR Right Hand Of God.
The Translators are all over the map in adding extra words to the texts in order to explain their personal theories, philosophical views and doctrines.
Is Christ " OUR Right Hand Of God "
in the verse
OR is He simply " on the right hand of God " ? ?
Also the word " Godhead " was another word that was added into the translation. The word that Trinitarians claim in " GODHEAD " is simply the Greek word G2320 - θεότης
theotēs - theh-ot'-ace =- Meaning = divinity.
The word G2320 - θεότης - theotēs - theh-ot'-ace
has absolutly nothing to do with a " HEAD " or THE HEAD.
it simply means The God Character, God - Ness or God - Ture or God Nature and Character Of God.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with Gods HEAD or the HEAD OF GOD.
This is what the Trinitarians did through the entire Translation in this and many, many other subjects. Even in - things in dealing with Polygamy marriage and also the position of Yahoshua existing in the RIGHT OF THE THRONE - IN THE RIGHT OF GOD and IN THE RIGHT OF POWER.
I explained and demonstrated these and many other instances in previous posts. Thanks for responding. I have been away helping my family re organize our cattle for the winter. God Bless.
Last edited:
Rosenritter
New member
If you are considering the older translations, have you considered looking back to the earliest English? John Wycliffe made a translation of the Latin in the time (that we now think of) as Middle English. I'll place it side by side with Tyndale's Modern English (from the Greek) in 1525.
1 Peter 3:22 Wycliffe (late 14th century)
21 And so baptym of lijk forme makith vs saaf; not the puttyng awei of the filthis of fleisch, but the axyng of a good conscience in God, bi the ayenrysyng of oure Lord Jhesu Crist, that is in the riyt half of God,
22 and swolewith deth, that we schulden be made eiris of euerlastinge lijf. He yede in to heuene, and aungelis, and powers, and vertues, ben maad sugetis to hym.
1 Peter 3:21-22 Tyndale (1535)
(21) which signifieth baptim that now saveth vs not ye puttinge awaye of ye filth of the flesshe but in that a good conscience consenteth to God by ye resurreccio of Iesus Christ
(22) which is oure right honde of God and is gone into heve angels power and myght subdued vnto him.
The underlying Greek (of Wycliffe's Latin source and Tyndale's Greek source) is dexios (as in dexter or dexterious)and it's familiar enough (at least to me) that I don't need a Strong's concordance to tell me that it generally relates to the right (hand or side) of something ( dexter = right and sinister = left.) What I don't understand is why you would perceive this as having a Trinitarian flavor.
God did grant Tyndale's prayer, "open the eyes of the King of England." His translation may not have been perfect but it wasn't a finished work either. And with hindsight, his own challenge was accomplished, that if God gave him space of years, the plowboy would know more scripture than the Catholic bishop. You might want to consider that this translator has some excellent recommendation of character.
I think you have the order of this backwards. Tyndale's translation came first and paved the way for future English translation. Tyndale didn't change verses from the King James, rather the King James used some 80% plus of Tyndale's language of their translation. You cannot fault Tyndale for changing language from the King James when Tyndale was almost 100 years before the King James.
This is a side consideration, but if you look at Tyndale's translation and the King James, these aren't in contradiction. "Which is our right hand of God" (Tyndale) and "Is on the right hand of God" (KJV) is a little different but neither puts forth an incorrect statement. For example,
A. If Jesus is "our right hand of God" then Jesus is the agent by which God acts and accomplishes.
B. If Jesus is "on the right hand of God" then he is raised and acknowledged to the place of highest authority and rules as God.
What's the context of the statement? It's explained by "angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him" indicating better agreement with the translation B (KJV).
That's an interesting observation you made. The Greek words are different and unlikely to be mistaken for one another, but in English "on" and "our" are very similar looking. I wonder if that might be an error of writing or copying: that seems a more likely explanation.
I would say that Christ is our right hand of God. That's not the normal way I'd phrase it though...
I would say that sounds like the better translation of the passage.
https://www.morewords.com/word/godhead/
Godship; deity; divinity; divine nature or essence; godhood
Yes, that's what "Godhead" means. Maybe you don't hear the word often in common speech, but there's nothing wrong or unusual with that term. It has nothing to do with a literal head. To use another example, "fountainhead" has nothing to do with a literal head either.
foun·tain·head
/ˈfount(ə)nˌhed/
noun
- an original source of something.
"this president was the fountainhead of patronage"
Just like fountainhead means the true source, Godhead means the true God nature. I don't see a problem. Or for another word, consider the word "maidenhead" which means "the state of being a maiden, purity, virginity." Again, that suffix denotes "source" or "nature."
Spoiler
I don't understand the oblique reference to polygamy. I do understand that you have an anti-Trinity perspective but I think you are letting that color your perception. I think you are reacting to something that isn't there: where would be the Trinity bias (or a Trinity) in these examples:
1. "our right hand of God" (16th century Tyndale):
Why would this be a Trinity reference? Jesus could well be called the right hand of God: he is already called the "arm of the Lord" in Isaiah 51:9 and Isaiah 52:10 (see John 12:38.) Jesus is also "ours" as we are in Christ.
2. "at the right hand of God" (all other English translations after Tyndale):
I am not sure if you have against this phrase? I count it eleven times in the King James New Testament. But if we are speaking figuratively, being set at the right hand of a ruler indicates that you are his "right hand."
3. "Godhead" (Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, Col 2:9):
Why would this be a Trinity reference? If someone has presented that as such, do you remember their logic or reasoning?
Not sure Rev 1:6 has been addressed:
e] καὶ
kai and Conj
4160 [e] ἐποίησεν
epoiēsen He has made V-AIA-3S
1473 [e] ἡμᾶς
hēmas us PPro-A1P
932 [e] βασιλείαν,
basileian a kingdom, N-AFS
2409 [e] ἱερεῖς
hiereis priests N-AMP
3588 [e] τῷ
tō to the Art-DMS
2316 [e] Θεῷ
Theō God N-DMS
2532 [e] καὶ
kai and Conj
3962 [e] Πατρὶ
Patri Father N-DMS
846 [e] αὐτοῦ,
autou of Him —
Jesus Christ...has made us a kingdom priests to God and Father-of Him
Or NKJV “Jesus Christ...has made us kings and priests to His God and Father...”
HalleluYah
Rosenritter
New member
I'm going to stop you there. There's no possible way that I can respond to the 3100+ word (7 single-spaced pages pasted into Word) on multiple-chained assertions and still have the result be readable and able to be followed. Can you hold some of those thoughts? I'll address your first question: How did God open the eyes of the King of England?
Yes, you are correct, Henry the VIII did have Tyndale executed. Tyndale's prayer at his execution was to "open the eyes of the King of England." Now, do you remember why Tyndale was being hunted and executed? It was for bringing the bible into English and distributing it to the common people. After Tyndale was executed, do you know what happened shortly after? The laws were changed to where it was no longer illegal to have the scriptures in English. That is a complete reversal: the work that God began with Tyndale is to be continued.
The mistake that I think you are making is in assuming that Henry VIII was the ultimate fulfillment of that prayer. Yes, in spite his character his actions do pave the way for the translation of the scripture: England splits from the Catholic church and the bible is now legal. Yet if you want to look to the proper fulfillment of that prayer, consider King James. Under this king not only was Tyndale's work completed but under a Christian king of good character. Have you read any of James' own writings concerning on the Christian faith? God opened the eyes of the King of England.
[/FONT]Speaking of which, King James did change those laws, including removing torture from the English legal system and that anyone should die for diversity of religious opinion.
[FONT="]"[/FONT][FONT="]I will never allow in my conscience that the blood of any man shall be shed for diversity of opinions in religion.[/FONT][FONT="]"[/FONT]
https://www.scionofzion.com/kj_real_story.html
I think you misunderstood what I meant. This isn't an issue of alternative spellings of the word "oure" but that the intended word might have been meant as "on" in that instance. The similarity between those two English words makes this a feasible possibility. Typography mistakes were very common during that age when printing was a new process and invention. There are plenty of well-documented examples of biblical printing errors that could be used to illustrate this point.
You seem to have a lot of other ideas pent up that might need separate discussion. We can talk on the intent and integrity of Tyndale (and other English translators) or the King of England if you like... but if you want to talk about those other issues can you please slow down a little bit and bring forth one at a time? The assumptions of one point should have a chance to be addressed before those are used to fuel further (emotionally charged) points.
For example, I don't understand why you seem to be talking about the "Godhead" as if it had anything to do with a literal head. I thought I covered that already? "Maidenhead?" "Fountainhead?" Same type of word, same general meaning of the "-head" suffix.
ok thanks
sorry, repeat accident.
Thanks for reading my posts. I hope to further understand Your faith in the trinity and enjoy leaning more about what You believe. God Bless.
Thanks for reading my posts. I hope to further understand Your faith in the trinity and enjoy leaning more about what You believe. God Bless.
Rosenritter
New member
I don't have faith in a trinity. Was this directed to someone else?
Please use only one color and the default font when you post. The oddball fonts and different colors can lock up the thread. I have had to do too many thread repairs due to the use of odd fonts and colors.
eleventhhour ---> :nuke: Lesson learned. Don't troll over a reasonable request. I have had to repair too many threads because of weird fonts. Notice I have not shut this thread down. I want members to have the freedom to dialog on this topic.
The smart thing to have done would have been to read the above linked thread, and realize that the world doesn't revolve around oneself, and apologize to the moderators and everyone in this thread and forum, and repent their selfishness, and then comply with the moderator's extremely reasonable and rational request.
Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
The following shows the deity of Jesus Christ:
1 John 1:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
Jesus is eternal. The apostle believed it. Why shouldn't we.
1 John 1:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
Jesus is eternal. The apostle believed it. Why shouldn't we.