Apple7
New member
Wrong.
Jesus states, in the first-person singular, that He is God, right here...
ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Wrong.
Jesus states, in the first-person singular, that He is God, right here...
ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος
Apple7
New member
Then this makes Jesus, God.
Furthermore....a 'purchase' is a transaction between TWO parties...if God was one party, who was the other party?!
:thumb:
Thanks “ Apple7 “ - I have discussed this concept with many, many Trinitarians.
Pronominal suffixes may be attached directly to the end of prepositions, particles, nouns, and verbs."
The - Pronominal suffix in the base / root word “ make / made - עשׂה H6213 “ is added and it was an attempt designed to make the same word “ GODS ACTIONS OF CREATING / MAKING “ into a noun and a verb and a preposition and a also particle - A higher part of speech in the verse.
This was simply an attempt to suggest a higher status to the subject “ GOD “ who was doing the creating and the making a more descriptive verb ending - concerning his actions of “ MAKING “ -= which is - עשׂה .
The word then ending with a “ נ “ { Pronominal suffix } simply was placed at the ending of the word as “ נעשׂה “ For more descriptive part of speech that was more than just simply being a subject.. but was simply saying that God’s { verb } actions were the cause and clause of God being, functioning and existing as God.
He literally became the creating / making / crafting vessel and the creation was done by his own word simply being spoken.
God spoke and it was so. People throughout the Bible make things in thousands of verses - However, the plurality and singularity of the one or ones doing the “ making “ of things has nothing to do with the ending of the verbs. The endings of the verbs are simply denoting and there to show for example - how that .....
.... Gods actions became - A Pronominal suffix “ make / made - עשׂה H6213 became “ נעשׂה “ “ GODS CREATING ACTION “ became a noun and a verb and a preposition and also a particle to show how deeply involved the God was in the making and creating.
The word being changed to having added this “ נ “ character of a { Pronominal suffix } - “ נעשׂה “ shows His verb actions became the subject / noun like normative, as closer to the noun / subject - and His action verb - literal was identity part his characteristic and identity.
When humans are working and making things in the Bible and their actions of “ making and doing “ things - the “ נ “ character of a { Pronominal suffix } - of “ נעשׂה “ is also added to indicate that they themselves also are the makers and doers and actors of their own plural individual or singular group / selves in the stronger tone to define their starting point and ending in their commitment, involvement and participation and the importance, seriousness and determination of their involvement in the action.
These verb endings have always been a struggle for Trinitarians and translators - who seek to attempt to force the texts to say something more than what they say. And the Jews who copied the texts throughout the years were involved in the struggle that the outside world placed on them to arrange and modify the verb endings to dissect, anatomize and construct these verb endings as the world made every effort to make sure that their language would die and become a dead language - unless they added these verb endings into the texts.
But they are not consistent or all conforming or a universal consistent rule - when it comes to plural and singular. There is no consistency in this concept.
They mainly are showing past and present tense and different forms and variations and definitions at the times in Biblical days in History of how the Verb “ MAKE “ is unified in the book or period of time in which it was written. For example - make – do – done – perform – yield – done – did – doer – or doest
Also it can show a difference between the watcher who is learning – who is leading or following and a difference between the performer and the one receiving performance.
The singular word God is always written in two ways 1. אלהים God = meaning Singular God
and 2. = meaning " Your God מפניך / אלהי "
The word God - meaning the God of the Bible - does not change or vary in any other form - than these two forms to say God and Your possessive God. A possessive God makes the God into a singular God - this is determined by the explanation of what God is.
ONE SINGLE ONLY DEITY . The only GOD....
However the plural concept of the word " gods " have been added by the translators and have many different forms of verb endings that all are depending on if they mean { other gods, your gods, their gods, their and your gods, their gods become your gods, or gods before the God of the true God, the false non deity of the idea of gods, a new god, a house or temple or territory of a god, mighty gods, useless and weak, empty god, a god of wood, stone or even spiritual non physical gods.
These and many other verb endings were added to show possessive parts of speech and how these other gods related to the subject line description in the narrative.
gods -= ולאלהיהם - לאלהיהם - אלהיהם - אלהיהם - אלהים - האלהים - לאלהיהן - אלהיכם - אלהיו - אלהיהם - אלהיהם - באשׁ - אלהים
In the Bible the false Gods cannot be Gods because the description of the God of the Bible does allow any other God but itself alone.
The verb endings have nothing to do in describing the singularity and plurality of God.
Singular, plural and possessive, first person, second person and third person ideas were all later ideas that were added to the manuscripts as the originals were being destroyed and
You can study more about the facts that establish that the original early authors of the ancient manuscripts did not use these verb form endings to determine the point or aspect of changing the words into plurality and singularity and radical definition changes but this is was defined as a coded idea narrated by the tense or modality pertaining to the surround body of information’s within the storyline.
The present (possessive clauses and subjective classification clauses) and even the layout of various different manuscript have a word order that has been changed by copyists throughout the modern centuries as time has progressed.
But - But back to the verse where God makes / creates man in His image in Gen 1:26
Gen 1:26 And God said - singular “ make נעשׂה H6213 “ man in our image.
The base / root word - H6213 עָשָׂה / ‛âśâh - aw-saw' = Means - To do - or to make - to accomplish or to bring forth, - yield.
It is true that the Hebrew word “ make / made “ - exists - where God is making plural men / man as our image - meaning man is now united with the image of God - making God and Man both the " OUR IMAGE " Mans image and Gods Image together - is the literal " our image. -
as - in Genesis it has a different form in the verb ending.
However - You mention that the “ PLURAL “ form is used concerning Gods “ presence “ with Moses.
But an entirely different form of the word “ made / make “ is used here in Psa 106:21
Psa 106:21 They forgat God their saviour, which had “ made עשׂה H6213 “ great things in Egypt.
Psa 78:12 Marvellous things “ made עשׂה H6213 “ he in the sight of their fathers, in the land of Egypt
Psa 72:18 Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only “ made עשׂה H6213 “ wondrous things.
We find that - Here in the following verses - the most simple base / root form of the word “ make / made “ is used.
And = Is saying that God created / made.
This root / base word “ עשׂה - is used describing God making and creating - in the following verses .
Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath - “ made עשׂה H6213 “ man upright.
Ecc 7:14 God also hath - “ made עשׂה H6213 “ the straight and the crooked.
one over against the other.
Ecc 3:11 no man can find out the work that God “ made עשׂה H6213 “ from the beginning to the end.
Pro 8:25. - I was brought forth: Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not “ made עשׂה H6213 “ the earth.
Psa 147:19. - His statutes and his judgments unto Israel. Psa 147:20 He hath not “ made עשׂה H6213 “ with any other nation.
Psa 135:7 He - GOD “ made עשׂה H6213 “ lightnings for the rain
Psa 134:3 The LORD that Psa 134:3 The LORD that “ made עשׂה H6213 “ heaven and earth bless thee out of Zion.
Psa 118:16 The right of the LORD is exalted: the right of the LORD “ makes עשׂה H6213 “ valiant.
Psa 119:84 When wilt thou -{ GOD } “ make עשׂה H6213 “ judgment on them that persecute me?
Psa 118:24 This is the day which the LORD “ made עשׂה H6213 “ we will rejoice and be glad in it.
Psa 115:15 Ye are blessed of the LORD which “ made עשׂה H6213 “ heaven and earth.
Psa 106:21 They forgat God their savior, which had “ made עשׂה H6213 “ great things in Egypt.
Psa 104:19 He “ made עשׂה H6213 “ the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.
Psa 104:4 Who “ made עשׂה H6213 “ his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Psa 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD “ made עשׂה H6213 “ the heavens.
Psa 95:5 The sea is his, and he “ made עשׂה H6213 “ it: and his hands formed the dry land.
Psa 95:5 The sea is his, and he “ made עשׂה H6213 “ it: and his hands formed the dry land.
Psa 83:11 Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna:
Psa 78:4 We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “.
Psa 66:16 Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare he hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “ my soul.
Job 37:5 God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things “ made עשׂה H6213 “ he, which we cannot comprehend.
Job 9:9 Which “ made עשׂה H6213 “ Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his - “ maker עשׂה H6213 “?
Jos 4:23 as the LORD your God “ made עשׂה H6213 “ in the Red sea.
1Sa 11:13 for today the LORD hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “salvation in Israel.
1Sa 14:45 who hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “ this great salvation in Israel?
Also - This same exact form of the word “ made עשׂה H6213 “ { MADE - MAKE or DO } is also used in hundreds and hundreds of other verses in the - “ singular “ where many other people { other than God } - are involved with the same word - Here in - Pro 24:29
Here are just a couple…………..
Pro 24:29 Say not, I will “ made עשׂה H6213 “ so to him as he hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “ to me: I will render to the man according to his work.
Pro 10:4 He becometh poor that “ made עשׂה H6213 “ a false hand.
Psa 119:124 “ make עשׂה H6213 “ in thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes.
Psa 118:6 The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man “ make עשׂה H6213 “
When we try to inject plural and singular and feminine and masculine rules and also plural and singular mandates onto the manuscripts texts, we find that the rules only contradict one another.
In the world of grammar rules, every rule injected into the language always ends up overlapping, overriding, breaking and circling and casting off and shedding one rule with another invented grammar rule.
These modern rules that are injected from other languages - are not stable static or consistent.
This is why Trinitarians are forever failing to directly add the very word “ TRINITY “ into their translations.
Because the original manuscripts purposefully cancel, abandon, withdraw, annul, terminate, call off and revoke and toss out the idea of the Trinity and adding the word “ trinity “ would also react a reality where Trinitarians are no longer interested in the God of the Bible.
Because Trinitarians do not love the God of the Bible - they simply are in love with the perversion, distortion, deformation, misrepresentation, alteration, and contortion, tortuosity, crookedness, contortion and the MASSIVE DISTANCE that they project upon the God and His Prophets and Servants ideologies and family lifestyles - in the service and obedience that God had given - And the way that it is within the written language as it was intended to be authored, is core - ly, foundationally in cornerstone basis - unacceptable to trinitarian faith and law.
The trinitarian love for the god that they imagine and the very god that they imagine are not evil, bad nor do I doubt their greatest intentions - however the God of the Bible and the god of the trinity are not the same. and Trinitarians do not want the God that is in the manuscripts.
Trinitarians and translators and even those copying the manuscripts have totally, wholly and completely abandoned, ceased to support or look after or preserve the original grammar rules and trinitarians have moved on to pretending that other rules somehow apply. While they only concentrate and focus on a limited aspect that they find on a pattern of vowels - while the pattern falls apart once they move on further into going deeper into the body of the manuscripts. There are many systematic arguments and opinions and confusion about the matter, however trinitarians can not openly express or fully explain their intentions because anyone can come allong and make up any rule they wish - just by following the trinitarian one step process and limiting the injected grammar rule to only a limited, select portion of a verse, paragraph, chapter or just a couple of books in the Bible.. Each made up rule will undo the other.
Preventing the trinitarian from actually openly, playfully, counterfeiting - ish - ly ,mockingly and grammarly literally inserting the word " TRINITY " into the translation.
Thanks “ Apple7 “ - I have discussed this concept with many, many Trinitarians.
Pronominal suffixes may be attached directly to the end of prepositions, particles, nouns, and verbs."
The - Pronominal suffix in the base / root word “ make / made - עשׂה H6213 “ is added and it was an attempt designed to make the same word “ GODS ACTIONS OF CREATING / MAKING “ into a noun and a verb and a preposition and a also particle - A higher part of speech in the verse.
This was simply an attempt to suggest a higher status to the subject “ GOD “ who was doing the creating and the making a more descriptive verb ending - concerning his actions of “ MAKING “ -= which is - עשׂה .
The word then ending with a “ נ “ { Pronominal suffix } simply was placed at the ending of the word as “ נעשׂה “ For more descriptive part of speech that was more than just simply being a subject.. but was simply saying that God’s { verb } actions were the cause and clause of God being, functioning and existing as God.
He literally became the creating / making / crafting vessel and the creation was done by his own word simply being spoken.
God spoke and it was so. People throughout the Bible make things in thousands of verses - However, the plurality and singularity of the one or ones doing the “ making “ of things has nothing to do with the ending of the verbs. The endings of the verbs are simply denoting and there to show for example - how that .....
.... Gods actions became - A Pronominal suffix “ make / made - עשׂה H6213 became “ נעשׂה “ “ GODS CREATING ACTION “ became a noun and a verb and a preposition and also a particle to show how deeply involved the God was in the making and creating.
The word being changed to having added this “ נ “ character of a { Pronominal suffix } - “ נעשׂה “ shows His verb actions became the subject / noun like normative, as closer to the noun / subject - and His action verb - literal was identity part his characteristic and identity.
When humans are working and making things in the Bible and their actions of “ making and doing “ things - the “ נ “ character of a { Pronominal suffix } - of “ נעשׂה “ is also added to indicate that they themselves also are the makers and doers and actors of their own plural individual or singular group / selves in the stronger tone to define their starting point and ending in their commitment, involvement and participation and the importance, seriousness and determination of their involvement in the action.
These verb endings have always been a struggle for Trinitarians and translators - who seek to attempt to force the texts to say something more than what they say. And the Jews who copied the texts throughout the years were involved in the struggle that the outside world placed on them to arrange and modify the verb endings to dissect, anatomize and construct these verb endings as the world made every effort to make sure that their language would die and become a dead language - unless they added these verb endings into the texts.
But they are not consistent or all conforming or a universal consistent rule - when it comes to plural and singular. There is no consistency in this concept.
They mainly are showing past and present tense and different forms and variations and definitions at the times in Biblical days in History of how the Verb “ MAKE “ is unified in the book or period of time in which it was written. For example - make – do – done – perform – yield – done – did – doer – or doest
Also it can show a difference between the watcher who is learning – who is leading or following and a difference between the performer and the one receiving performance.
The singular word God is always written in two ways 1. אלהים God = meaning Singular God
and 2. = meaning " Your God מפניך / אלהי "
The word God - meaning the God of the Bible - does not change or vary in any other form - than these two forms to say God and Your possessive God. A possessive God makes the God into a singular God - this is determined by the explanation of what God is.
ONE SINGLE ONLY DEITY . The only GOD....
However the plural concept of the word " gods " have been added by the translators and have many different forms of verb endings that all are depending on if they mean { other gods, your gods, their gods, their and your gods, their gods become your gods, or gods before the God of the true God, the false non deity of the idea of gods, a new god, a house or temple or territory of a god, mighty gods, useless and weak, empty god, a god of wood, stone or even spiritual non physical gods.
These and many other verb endings were added to show possessive parts of speech and how these other gods related to the subject line description in the narrative.
gods -= ולאלהיהם - לאלהיהם - אלהיהם - אלהיהם - אלהים - האלהים - לאלהיהן - אלהיכם - אלהיו - אלהיהם - אלהיהם - באשׁ - אלהים
In the Bible the false Gods cannot be Gods because the description of the God of the Bible does allow any other God but itself alone.
The verb endings have nothing to do in describing the singularity and plurality of God.
Singular, plural and possessive, first person, second person and third person ideas were all later ideas that were added to the manuscripts as the originals were being destroyed and
You can study more about the facts that establish that the original early authors of the ancient manuscripts did not use these verb form endings to determine the point or aspect of changing the words into plurality and singularity and radical definition changes but this is was defined as a coded idea narrated by the tense or modality pertaining to the surround body of information’s within the storyline.
The present (possessive clauses and subjective classification clauses) and even the layout of various different manuscript have a word order that has been changed by copyists throughout the modern centuries as time has progressed.
But - But back to the verse where God makes / creates man in His image in Gen 1:26
Gen 1:26 And God said - singular “ make נעשׂה H6213 “ man in our image.
The base / root word - H6213 עָשָׂה / ‛âśâh - aw-saw' = Means - To do - or to make - to accomplish or to bring forth, - yield.
It is true that the Hebrew word “ make / made “ - exists - where God is making plural men / man as our image - meaning man is now united with the image of God - making God and Man both the " OUR IMAGE " Mans image and Gods Image together - is the literal " our image. -
as - in Genesis it has a different form in the verb ending.
However - You mention that the “ PLURAL “ form is used concerning Gods “ presence “ with Moses.
But an entirely different form of the word “ made / make “ is used here in Psa 106:21
Psa 106:21 They forgat God their saviour, which had “ made עשׂה H6213 “ great things in Egypt.
Psa 78:12 Marvellous things “ made עשׂה H6213 “ he in the sight of their fathers, in the land of Egypt
Psa 72:18 Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only “ made עשׂה H6213 “ wondrous things.
We find that - Here in the following verses - the most simple base / root form of the word “ make / made “ is used.
And = Is saying that God created / made.
This root / base word “ עשׂה - is used describing God making and creating - in the following verses .
Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath - “ made עשׂה H6213 “ man upright.
Ecc 7:14 God also hath - “ made עשׂה H6213 “ the straight and the crooked.
one over against the other.
Ecc 3:11 no man can find out the work that God “ made עשׂה H6213 “ from the beginning to the end.
Pro 8:25. - I was brought forth: Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not “ made עשׂה H6213 “ the earth.
Psa 147:19. - His statutes and his judgments unto Israel. Psa 147:20 He hath not “ made עשׂה H6213 “ with any other nation.
Psa 135:7 He - GOD “ made עשׂה H6213 “ lightnings for the rain
Psa 134:3 The LORD that Psa 134:3 The LORD that “ made עשׂה H6213 “ heaven and earth bless thee out of Zion.
Psa 118:16 The right of the LORD is exalted: the right of the LORD “ makes עשׂה H6213 “ valiant.
Psa 119:84 When wilt thou -{ GOD } “ make עשׂה H6213 “ judgment on them that persecute me?
Psa 118:24 This is the day which the LORD “ made עשׂה H6213 “ we will rejoice and be glad in it.
Psa 115:15 Ye are blessed of the LORD which “ made עשׂה H6213 “ heaven and earth.
Psa 106:21 They forgat God their savior, which had “ made עשׂה H6213 “ great things in Egypt.
Psa 104:19 He “ made עשׂה H6213 “ the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.
Psa 104:4 Who “ made עשׂה H6213 “ his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Psa 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD “ made עשׂה H6213 “ the heavens.
Psa 95:5 The sea is his, and he “ made עשׂה H6213 “ it: and his hands formed the dry land.
Psa 95:5 The sea is his, and he “ made עשׂה H6213 “ it: and his hands formed the dry land.
Psa 83:11 Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna:
Psa 78:4 We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “.
Psa 66:16 Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare he hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “ my soul.
Job 37:5 God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things “ made עשׂה H6213 “ he, which we cannot comprehend.
Job 9:9 Which “ made עשׂה H6213 “ Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his - “ maker עשׂה H6213 “?
Jos 4:23 as the LORD your God “ made עשׂה H6213 “ in the Red sea.
1Sa 11:13 for today the LORD hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “salvation in Israel.
1Sa 14:45 who hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “ this great salvation in Israel?
Also - This same exact form of the word “ made עשׂה H6213 “ { MADE - MAKE or DO } is also used in hundreds and hundreds of other verses in the - “ singular “ where many other people { other than God } - are involved with the same word - Here in - Pro 24:29
Here are just a couple…………..
Pro 24:29 Say not, I will “ made עשׂה H6213 “ so to him as he hath “ made עשׂה H6213 “ to me: I will render to the man according to his work.
Pro 10:4 He becometh poor that “ made עשׂה H6213 “ a false hand.
Psa 119:124 “ make עשׂה H6213 “ in thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes.
Psa 118:6 The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man “ make עשׂה H6213 “
When we try to inject plural and singular and feminine and masculine rules and also plural and singular mandates onto the manuscripts texts, we find that the rules only contradict one another.
In the world of grammar rules, every rule injected into the language always ends up overlapping, overriding, breaking and circling and casting off and shedding one rule with another invented grammar rule.
These modern rules that are injected from other languages - are not stable static or consistent.
This is why Trinitarians are forever failing to directly add the very word “ TRINITY “ into their translations.
Because the original manuscripts purposefully cancel, abandon, withdraw, annul, terminate, call off and revoke and toss out the idea of the Trinity and adding the word “ trinity “ would also react a reality where Trinitarians are no longer interested in the God of the Bible.
Because Trinitarians do not love the God of the Bible - they simply are in love with the perversion, distortion, deformation, misrepresentation, alteration, and contortion, tortuosity, crookedness, contortion and the MASSIVE DISTANCE that they project upon the God and His Prophets and Servants ideologies and family lifestyles - in the service and obedience that God had given - And the way that it is within the written language as it was intended to be authored, is core - ly, foundationally in cornerstone basis - unacceptable to trinitarian faith and law.
The trinitarian love for the god that they imagine and the very god that they imagine are not evil, bad nor do I doubt their greatest intentions - however the God of the Bible and the god of the trinity are not the same. and Trinitarians do not want the God that is in the manuscripts.
Trinitarians and translators and even those copying the manuscripts have totally, wholly and completely abandoned, ceased to support or look after or preserve the original grammar rules and trinitarians have moved on to pretending that other rules somehow apply. While they only concentrate and focus on a limited aspect that they find on a pattern of vowels - while the pattern falls apart once they move on further into going deeper into the body of the manuscripts. There are many systematic arguments and opinions and confusion about the matter, however trinitarians can not openly express or fully explain their intentions because anyone can come allong and make up any rule they wish - just by following the trinitarian one step process and limiting the injected grammar rule to only a limited, select portion of a verse, paragraph, chapter or just a couple of books in the Bible.. Each made up rule will undo the other.
Preventing the trinitarian from actually openly, playfully, counterfeiting - ish - ly ,mockingly and grammarly literally inserting the word " TRINITY " into the translation.
Last edited:
Apple7
New member
The Trinity IS One God.
Btw....no one is interested in your constant loathing of Trinitarians. You are now spending up to 50% of your boring posts further debasing yourself on how much you loath Trinitarians.
No one reads your editorial tripe.
Furthermore, you can't even seem to rebut any of my arguments. The best you can do is cobble-together your previous decades old word files that don't even come close to addressing the issue raised.
You are so far behind in this conversation.
Get a grip....
:angel:
I have attempted to read and respond to every single last one of Your responses and reply in hand typed details.
You have not addressed much of anything but only attempted to sum it all up addressing everything into another trinitarian label or argument of labeling the manuscriupts and the facts that are correctly and orderly presented - as " boring."
it seems that this is what the King James Trinitarians thought about the manuscripts - and this is why they deleted, removed, left out and changed thousands upon thousands of words -
the original was just " boring "
My hand typed responses are not copying and pastes - and are not pre-written sentences that I am posting. I am taking extensive time to gather the details to fully disprove every single last one of Your claims.
And really not much of anything is pre-written to simply copy and paste over into a response.
You are projecting You own actions upon my responses - and it is You Yourself - who are doing nothing but simply copying and pasting everything You reply with. You have done no translating - outside of posting a { single occasional one word response } that You copy and paste or type from the trinitarian lexicon about what Your Father King James and His preceeding trinitarian followers felt that should be translated.
And perhaps even copying and pasting various verses of the straight Greek
" versions " of various Vatican or Alexandrian or Egyptian or even perhaps some other alternative Greek manuscripts that contradict all of the majority textus receptus - Just to throw me off and make a joke.
And maybe some of the straight Greek and that You paste are possibly the majority text.
But none of it explained and none of it confirms the Trinity faith. What is Your point. ?
It seems that You are wanting me to pick apart whole swaths or conjugated and couppled verses of opposing Greek manuscripts with no explaination or translation provided - as You take a mockery distraction tour by throwing all of the contradicting adapting and various schools Greek rules of Grammar that You copy and paste off of the internet - that no longer apply in todays age and that neither fully applied in the time when original manuscripts were written in the first century.
Please let me know if there is anything left - out of all of Your responses and claims and I will be happy to continue to disprove it even further than I already have. Is this why You keep jumping to a new trinitarian verse that is a false translation, as You leave it to me to translate every last detail concerning these verses. ?
I have no bad feelings towards trinitarian people. And have expressed no ill will nor a single expression about disliking any Trinitarians.
Why do my personal feelings about Trinitarians suddenly become an easy out for You as You make up more false claims about me having a dislike for another person. ?
My personal feelings or dislike or liking or feeling toward another person has nothing whatsoever to do with the content of my answers. However this is how trinitarians end the conversation.
Again - I ask You - please show a single thing that I have said that is untrue, false, incorrect or anything that You have said - that I have not already responded to in full and complete detailed answer. I do not need to come to a conclusion about weither I like or dislike a trinitarian in order to state the facts. I go straight to the manuscripts and demonstrate the facts.
However, it is the Trinitarians before You - who have already decided that the manuscripts and their original message is not what they like. In fact they demonstrate in their translations that they oughtright trully have nothing but disdain, contempt, disrespect and a great dislike for the original manuscripts.
Please help me to stay on topic to the discussion. I have nothing but love, respect and kindness to all trinitarians - but it is the trinitarian faith, claims, ideas, and theology and doctrine that I do not have such great feelings about. This is not preventing me from loving, cherishing, respecting and wanting nothing but the best in life for all trinitarians.
I simply do not understand why You continually present untruths, however, this is not a prblem for me. I still have no bad feelings or dislike toward You. I have many, many trinitarian friends that I have met throughout my life and I like them all very much.
I understand why You would think that I had bad feelings about trinitarian people and I understand everything that You have said.
However, I understand also that unfortunately, as a trinitarian Yourself, You can never admit or acknowledge to have understood or even read or even really auctually responded a single word that I have said. You demonstrate this clearly. Anything that is not trinitarian has no right, business, claim, interest, license, deserving, due, exemption, merit or prerogative - in the trinitarian mind.
it is just a brush the shoulder kick aside and chuckled, hee-haw smirk as You hope You can prove to any by standers that I physically literally am trully there with You trying to pry Your literal fingers from the book that You have slammed shut.
.
I have attempted to read and respond to every single last one of Your responses and reply in hand typed details.
You have not addressed much of anything but only attempted to sum it all up addressing everything into another trinitarian label or argument of labeling the manuscriupts and the facts that are correctly and orderly presented - as " boring."
it seems that this is what the King James Trinitarians thought about the manuscripts - and this is why they deleted, removed, left out and changed thousands upon thousands of words -
the original was just " boring "
My hand typed responses are not copying and pastes - and are not pre-written sentences that I am posting. I am taking extensive time to gather the details to fully disprove every single last one of Your claims.
And really not much of anything is pre-written to simply copy and paste over into a response.
You are projecting You own actions upon my responses - and it is You Yourself - who are doing nothing but simply copying and pasting everything You reply with. You have done no translating - outside of posting a { single occasional one word response } that You copy and paste or type from the trinitarian lexicon about what Your Father King James and His preceeding trinitarian followers felt that should be translated.
And perhaps even copying and pasting various verses of the straight Greek
" versions " of various Vatican or Alexandrian or Egyptian or even perhaps some other alternative Greek manuscripts that contradict all of the majority textus receptus - Just to throw me off and make a joke.
And maybe some of the straight Greek and that You paste are possibly the majority text.
But none of it explained and none of it confirms the Trinity faith. What is Your point. ?
It seems that You are wanting me to pick apart whole swaths or conjugated and couppled verses of opposing Greek manuscripts with no explaination or translation provided - as You take a mockery distraction tour by throwing all of the contradicting adapting and various schools Greek rules of Grammar that You copy and paste off of the internet - that no longer apply in todays age and that neither fully applied in the time when original manuscripts were written in the first century.
Please let me know if there is anything left - out of all of Your responses and claims and I will be happy to continue to disprove it even further than I already have. Is this why You keep jumping to a new trinitarian verse that is a false translation, as You leave it to me to translate every last detail concerning these verses. ?
I have no bad feelings towards trinitarian people. And have expressed no ill will nor a single expression about disliking any Trinitarians.
Why do my personal feelings about Trinitarians suddenly become an easy out for You as You make up more false claims about me having a dislike for another person. ?
My personal feelings or dislike or liking or feeling toward another person has nothing whatsoever to do with the content of my answers. However this is how trinitarians end the conversation.
Again - I ask You - please show a single thing that I have said that is untrue, false, incorrect or anything that You have said - that I have not already responded to in full and complete detailed answer. I do not need to come to a conclusion about weither I like or dislike a trinitarian in order to state the facts. I go straight to the manuscripts and demonstrate the facts.
However, it is the Trinitarians before You - who have already decided that the manuscripts and their original message is not what they like. In fact they demonstrate in their translations that they oughtright trully have nothing but disdain, contempt, disrespect and a great dislike for the original manuscripts.
Please help me to stay on topic to the discussion. I have nothing but love, respect and kindness to all trinitarians - but it is the trinitarian faith, claims, ideas, and theology and doctrine that I do not have such great feelings about. This is not preventing me from loving, cherishing, respecting and wanting nothing but the best in life for all trinitarians.
I simply do not understand why You continually present untruths, however, this is not a prblem for me. I still have no bad feelings or dislike toward You. I have many, many trinitarian friends that I have met throughout my life and I like them all very much.
I understand why You would think that I had bad feelings about trinitarian people and I understand everything that You have said.
However, I understand also that unfortunately, as a trinitarian Yourself, You can never admit or acknowledge to have understood or even read or even really auctually responded a single word that I have said. You demonstrate this clearly. Anything that is not trinitarian has no right, business, claim, interest, license, deserving, due, exemption, merit or prerogative - in the trinitarian mind.
it is just a brush the shoulder kick aside and chuckled, hee-haw smirk as You hope You can prove to any by standers that I physically literally am trully there with You trying to pry Your literal fingers from the book that You have slammed shut.
.
:readthis:
Have I not already showed that The verse in (Isa 62.8) that trinitartians are refering to as the “ right hand “ H3225 יָמִין / yâmı̂yn - yaw-meen' -
The word itself has nothing to do with the hand in many, many other verses -
The word “ HAND “ was added by the translators when they felt that they could get away with it.
In the Old Testament the words right and hand are both used separately together individually to indicate that it means the RIGHT - hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “. And LEFT HAND
Gen 48:17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “ upon the head of Ephraim.
Jdg 7:20 And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “, and the trumpets in their right hands.
Sa 20:9 And Joab took Amasa by the beard with the right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “ to kiss him.
Psa 73:23 Thou hast holden me by my right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “.
Psa 121:5 The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “.
Jer 22:24 Judah - the signet upon my right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “ H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “.
Eze 39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left “ hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “
and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “.
H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd.
The translators added the word “ HAND “ to many verses where the word was only - H3225 יָמִין / yâmı̂yn - yaw-meen' - -= RIGHT.
In doing this - the trinitarian translators removed and stripped and deleted the entire concept of the term or idea of the “ RIGHT OF POWER “ as they added the word RIGHT “ HAND “ - intead of letting the manuiscripts speak for themselves where it says simply “ RIGHT “
There are many verses where both Hebrew words are placed side by side ( TOGETHER ) the literal word “ Right יָמִין yâmı̂yn “ and the literal word “ Hand H3027 - יָד - yâd
Both - . In the same verses - to indicate it was the literal - Right Hand.
This same word = H3225 יָמִין / yâmı̂yn - yaw-meen' - is used by iteslf in many, many other verses where it has nothing to do with the “ HAND “
Lev 7:32 And the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder shall ye give unto the priest.
Lev 7:33 He among the sons of … shall have the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder for his part.
Lev 8:26 He took one unleavened cake, and a cake of oiled bread, and one wafer, and put themon the fat, and upon the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâ mı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder:
Lev 9:21 And the breasts and the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder Aaron waved for a wave offering… .
Num 18:18 The wave breast and as the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder are thine.
Jdg 3:16 Ehud girded a dagger … . upon his { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } thigh.
Jdg 3:21 Ehud took a dagger from his { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } thigh, and thrust it into his belly:
Jdg 20:16 seven hundred chosen men whose impeded, hindered or lesser or weaker hands were their { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } hands ; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.
1Sa 11:2 And Nahash the Ammonite answered them, On this condition will I make a covenantwith you, that I may thrust out all your right eyes, and lay it for a reproach upon all Israel.
2Sa 24:5 And they passed over Jordan, and pitched in Aroer, on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side of the city.
1Ki 7:39 And he put five bases on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } of the house.
1Ki 7:49 And the candlesticks of pure gold, five on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' }side.
2Ki 12:9 But Jehoiada the priest took a chest, and bored a hole in the lid of it, and set it beside the altar, on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } .
2Ch 4:8 He made also ten tables, and placed them in the temple, five on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן -yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side.
Eze 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side.
Eze 10:3 Now the cherubim’ s stood upon the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' }
Zec 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side.
Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the { RIGHTH3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side.
Zec 11:17 The sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } eye.
__
Furthermore, the Bible does indicate and show that Yahoshua is God Himself in the flesh- But nowhere does is literally say in precise form of the words Yahoshua Himself saying
" I AM GOD " or Yahoshua is God "
But it says in an indirect way - that He is God The Father in the same indirect way that it says they He is God. Other people call Him as God and Lord indirectly as a sum total and they worship Him. And the Characteristics of the Father are also attributed to the Son. Even to the Son returning to the Father to literally " sit in His very throne "
Have I not already showed that The verse in (Isa 62.8) that trinitartians are refering to as the “ right hand “ H3225 יָמִין / yâmı̂yn - yaw-meen' -
The word itself has nothing to do with the hand in many, many other verses -
The word “ HAND “ was added by the translators when they felt that they could get away with it.
In the Old Testament the words right and hand are both used separately together individually to indicate that it means the RIGHT - hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “. And LEFT HAND
Gen 48:17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “ upon the head of Ephraim.
Jdg 7:20 And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “, and the trumpets in their right hands.
Sa 20:9 And Joab took Amasa by the beard with the right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “ to kiss him.
Psa 73:23 Thou hast holden me by my right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “.
Psa 121:5 The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “.
Jer 22:24 Judah - the signet upon my right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “ H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “.
Eze 39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left “ hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “
and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd “.
H3027 - יָד - yâd -yawd.
The translators added the word “ HAND “ to many verses where the word was only - H3225 יָמִין / yâmı̂yn - yaw-meen' - -= RIGHT.
In doing this - the trinitarian translators removed and stripped and deleted the entire concept of the term or idea of the “ RIGHT OF POWER “ as they added the word RIGHT “ HAND “ - intead of letting the manuiscripts speak for themselves where it says simply “ RIGHT “
There are many verses where both Hebrew words are placed side by side ( TOGETHER ) the literal word “ Right יָמִין yâmı̂yn “ and the literal word “ Hand H3027 - יָד - yâd
Both - . In the same verses - to indicate it was the literal - Right Hand.
This same word = H3225 יָמִין / yâmı̂yn - yaw-meen' - is used by iteslf in many, many other verses where it has nothing to do with the “ HAND “
Lev 7:32 And the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder shall ye give unto the priest.
Lev 7:33 He among the sons of … shall have the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder for his part.
Lev 8:26 He took one unleavened cake, and a cake of oiled bread, and one wafer, and put themon the fat, and upon the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâ mı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder:
Lev 9:21 And the breasts and the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder Aaron waved for a wave offering… .
Num 18:18 The wave breast and as the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } shoulder are thine.
Jdg 3:16 Ehud girded a dagger … . upon his { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } thigh.
Jdg 3:21 Ehud took a dagger from his { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } thigh, and thrust it into his belly:
Jdg 20:16 seven hundred chosen men whose impeded, hindered or lesser or weaker hands were their { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } hands ; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.
1Sa 11:2 And Nahash the Ammonite answered them, On this condition will I make a covenantwith you, that I may thrust out all your right eyes, and lay it for a reproach upon all Israel.
2Sa 24:5 And they passed over Jordan, and pitched in Aroer, on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side of the city.
1Ki 7:39 And he put five bases on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } of the house.
1Ki 7:49 And the candlesticks of pure gold, five on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' }side.
2Ki 12:9 But Jehoiada the priest took a chest, and bored a hole in the lid of it, and set it beside the altar, on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } .
2Ch 4:8 He made also ten tables, and placed them in the temple, five on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן -yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side.
Eze 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side.
Eze 10:3 Now the cherubim’ s stood upon the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' }
Zec 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side.
Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the { RIGHTH3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } side.
Zec 11:17 The sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his { RIGHT H3225 - י ָ מ ִ י ן - yâmı̂yn / yaw-meen' } eye.
__
Furthermore, the Bible does indicate and show that Yahoshua is God Himself in the flesh- But nowhere does is literally say in precise form of the words Yahoshua Himself saying
" I AM GOD " or Yahoshua is God "
But it says in an indirect way - that He is God The Father in the same indirect way that it says they He is God. Other people call Him as God and Lord indirectly as a sum total and they worship Him. And the Characteristics of the Father are also attributed to the Son. Even to the Son returning to the Father to literally " sit in His very throne "
Apple7
New member
No.
You have skipped over almost everything that I have presented that utterly destroys your heretical theology.
I'm not Catholic, and I have no need to use the KJV.....so what can you do now?
You can start by refuting the scriptures posited which show Jesus as God.
Good luck...
Apple7
New member
Since you ran away from our response the first time, here it is again...
ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος
Now...
Hold your ground and directly reply to this passage....or....in your usual style, ignore it completely, and then paste in unrelated nonsense, and then post in paragraph after paragraph on how much you loath Trinitarians.
:cigar::cigar::cigar:
Apple7
New member
bump for the runner...:dog::dog::dog:
:rain:
- sorry, I should have responded to You about this sooner .
I was across town all night helping my great grandfather birth a baby calf. I would have responded to a couple of posts sooner but I have been meeting the veterinarian appointments for the last week.
Please don’t confuse the message of the Greek concerning Rev 21:7 This is the Revelation of Yahoshua The Anointing, which God gave unto him …………
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Yahhoshua is speaking here … continuing………. to further explain Himself, what He will do for His servants - and explaining exactly - who He is and saying that ……. He , Yahoshua has….
Rev 21:7 He ο overcome κληρονομησει to inherit παντα all things; και and θεος shall be παντα His θεος God και and αυτω he θεος will be μοι my υιος son.
This is one of the most Anti Triniitarian verses in the entire Bible. Again another verse out of many, many others that give the suggestive, circumlocutory and indirect way - to say that Yahoshua is the Father Himself.
If You have seen Yahoshua - You have seen The Father.
These type of verses do not say in certain terms and in the exact phrases that Yahoshua is The Father by saying - “ Yahoshua Is The Father “ or “ I am the Father.”
But it does say that “ Joh 10:30 = Myself and Father are one. This Greek word “ ONE “ is not the Greek word “ MIA “ G3391 μία - mia - mee'-ah
- Mia = in Greek means - “ one in unity “ - and it meas “ First, “ or “ a certain object, a certain thing or person. “
Mia - is like saying “ ONE “ in Greek, as also - in English You would say “ ONE “ without meaning a primary numeral 1.
However the Greek word – meaning = “ A PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE “ is HICE - G1520 - εἷς - heis – hice.
Yahoshua uses the word - HICE “G1520 - εἷς - heis – hice. A PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE “
1. and no more than 1. - This is what the Greek manuscripts say.
So we can know that just as Yahoshua never said _ I am the Father or I am God - and He never said - - I am God. But He and His word describe Him as God and as the Father.
Here in - Rev 21:7 Yahoshaua is saying that - I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely and that He has overcome and He has inherited all things.
And that He ( Yahoshua } Shall be His { his obedient servant’s } God and His obedient servant will be His son.
He is again saying - I am The Father. Just as He said
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)
2 Peter 1:1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by Himself alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)
John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God 14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 8:24 - if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.”
John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
His name from the Isaiah prophecy - is The Almighty God, The Everlasting Father.
The Bible is very, very clear. I hope You can come to know the God of the Bible and repent and be baptised in the name Of the Father, and The Son and The Holy Spirit.
That name is - The Lord Yahoshua, The Anointing.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be Baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, For the remission of sins, & ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost Acts 2:38
GA 3:27...... For as many of you as have been BAPTIZED into Christ have put on Christ
1Cor 1:13...... Is Christ divided? ..was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the name of Paul?
Rom 6:3...... Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED into his death?
Acts 19:5 ...... When they heard this, they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus
Acts 10:48...... and he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 8:16...... (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were.. BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, & the name of Jesus
Christ, they were BAPTIZED.
Acts 19:3-5 ......"They were baptized unto Johns baptism. } Paul, SAID YOU are to BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS...... When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
Luk 24:47 Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in HIS NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: For there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
The name of Jesus Christ is a declaration of who He is
1. Wonderful - 2. Counsellor - 3. The mighty God - 4. The everlasting Father
5. The Prince of Peace
When you mention the name Jesus Christ you are calling upon all the names mentioned in Isa. 9:6
Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church. Vol. 2, pg. 263.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA reads the following...
...There has been theological controversy over the question as to whether baptism in the name of Christ only was ever held valid. St. Paul commands disciples at Ephesus to be baptized in Christ's name:
"They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." In Acts 10, St. Peter ordered others to be baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ". Philip ordered to baptized in the name of Jesus Christ". We have the explicit command of Peter "Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins (Acts, ii).
Pope Stephen required an explicit mention of the Trinity in baptism, for he quotes the pontiff as declaring that the sacramental grace is conferred because a person
has been baptized "with the invocation of the names of the Trinity, Father & Son & Holy Ghost"
Encyclopedia of Religion & Ethics (1951). II, 384, 389: "The formula used was "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion in water, the use of the name of the Lord, & the laying on of hands. To these were added, at various times & places which cannot be safely identified, (a) the trine name (Justin)"
Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (1962), I 351: "The evidence suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but 'in the name of Jesus Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus.'"
Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.
Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Jesus Christ" or 'the Lord Jesus,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."
Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church (1947), page 58: "The trinitarian baptismal formula,,, was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ."
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1957), I, 435: "The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus which still occurs even in the second & third centuries."
Canney's Encyclopedia of Religions (1970), page 53: "Persons were baptized at first 'in the name of Jesus Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus' Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized 'in the name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Ghost.'"
Encyclopedia Biblica (1899), I, 473: "It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Jesus Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Jesus.' This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single-not triple, as was the later creed."
Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. (1920), II 365: "The trinitarian formula & trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the New Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid."
FAUSSETS BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA, page 359 - Jesus. Means Jehovah Salvation. "Peter replied, Repent, & be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of ...the authenticity of water baptism today in the name of Jesus Christ, cannot be denied !
Sadly my friend – In the most respectful and humble way possible - I prove to You- That You have absolutly no scriptures for You Trinitarian Catholic faith. Pope is Your Father – King James also.
You have many, many Fathers. However Yahoshua is the only true “ ONE “ Father and Creator that You deny. While He calls to You sitting in the throne of The Father. Sitting in the Right OF The Father and Rom 8:34 Christ in the right of God. Sitting in his own right. Sitting in the heavenly place.
Sitting in the right of the throne of God. Sitting in the right of the Majesty G1722 - ε ̓ ν - en - in the high.
Sitting in the right of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens.
HE PRECEEDED FROM THE THRONE IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER.
SIT THOU FROM MY RIGHT - UNTILL I MAKE THY ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL.
The Greek word is " FROM MY RIGHT - - NOT AT MY RIGHT HAND.
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit / Dwell “ G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex FROM or OF “ my right, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex = Meaning - From or Of.
ἐκ / ἐξ “ FROM or OF “ is a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; - after, among, , by (the means of (among, forth (because, by reason) of, off (from).
Heb 1:13 - is a total contradiction in the Trinitarian Manuscripts - because when Yahoshua left the throne and bosom of the Father and came to earth - He did not come to earth to sit “ ON / AT “ the right hand of God - nor did He sit “ ON / AT “ the right hand of the throne - here on earth..
Acording to TRINITARIAN THEOLOGY - HE WAS ALREADY " AT " THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER. AND ALWAYS WILL REMAIN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER.
AFTER HIS ENEMIES ARE HIS FOOT STOOL - AFTER THIS IS DONE - Trinitarians still go round and round and round dribbling, and repeating the same lie.
The Right hand of the Father - The right Hand Of the Father. But why would God say sit at the right hand of the Father UNTIL a certain and certain time - if He was already there ?
You / we - have nothing but a total contradiction and vain preposterous foolishness - that makes no sense or conclusion. The Jes Zeus of Trinitarian never leaves the right hand of The Father. But The Father is taking Yahoshua from a specific position or place and * SAYING - SIT HERE AT MY RIGHT HAND - UNTIL THIS HAPPENS> But Your translation and faith denies this and the trinitarian Christ is a Christ that had always sat at the Right Hand or they have no clue where He came from - and they demand that He will forever sit at the Right Hand Of The Father.
This is a total lie - because the manuscripts do not match up with the translations. They Lied.
How would the Yahoshua Of The Trinity sit at / on the right hand of the Father in heaven - and come to earth and remain sitting at / on the right hand of the Father ? The Manuscripts prove this heretical desception to be a complete error and contradiction. - -G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex = Meaning - From or Of.
There is no verse in the Manuscripts that say that Yahoshua was ever sitting at or on the right of The Father - Sit / Dwell “ G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex FROM or OF “ my right - Come from my right - untill the enemies are a footstool.
Yahoshua rose from the dead and as where He came From or Of the Right of the Father He returns to exist IN the literal throne -
Yet the Trinitarian translators have Christ sitting “ on “ the right hand of God - here on earth- here in Heb 1:13.
From the original Greek manuscripts in Heb 1:13 Christ is to Sit / Dwell “ “ G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex FROM or OF OUT - from the right of God - until the time that - He made His enemies footstool?...........
This word Greek word ἐκ / ἐξ “ G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex = Means - FROM or OF OUT OF
It is always used in the context of such verses hare in Heb 1:13 Mat 2:6 For “ FROM / OUT OF “ ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex - “ OF “thee “ Bethlehem “ shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
And also as always as we see here Mat 2:15 “ FROM / OUT OF ἐκ / ἐξ “ “ OF “ Egypt have I called my son.
ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex is always meaning - “ FROM / OUT OF “ in the manuscripts - Yet the Catholic Trinitarian translators have Christ sitting “ on / at “ the right hand of God - here on earth- here in Heb 1:13. - When the Greek word is “ FROM / OUT OF “
- sorry, I should have responded to You about this sooner .
I was across town all night helping my great grandfather birth a baby calf. I would have responded to a couple of posts sooner but I have been meeting the veterinarian appointments for the last week.
Please don’t confuse the message of the Greek concerning Rev 21:7 This is the Revelation of Yahoshua The Anointing, which God gave unto him …………
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Yahhoshua is speaking here … continuing………. to further explain Himself, what He will do for His servants - and explaining exactly - who He is and saying that ……. He , Yahoshua has….
Rev 21:7 He ο overcome κληρονομησει to inherit παντα all things; και and θεος shall be παντα His θεος God και and αυτω he θεος will be μοι my υιος son.
This is one of the most Anti Triniitarian verses in the entire Bible. Again another verse out of many, many others that give the suggestive, circumlocutory and indirect way - to say that Yahoshua is the Father Himself.
If You have seen Yahoshua - You have seen The Father.
These type of verses do not say in certain terms and in the exact phrases that Yahoshua is The Father by saying - “ Yahoshua Is The Father “ or “ I am the Father.”
But it does say that “ Joh 10:30 = Myself and Father are one. This Greek word “ ONE “ is not the Greek word “ MIA “ G3391 μία - mia - mee'-ah
- Mia = in Greek means - “ one in unity “ - and it meas “ First, “ or “ a certain object, a certain thing or person. “
Mia - is like saying “ ONE “ in Greek, as also - in English You would say “ ONE “ without meaning a primary numeral 1.
However the Greek word – meaning = “ A PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE “ is HICE - G1520 - εἷς - heis – hice.
Yahoshua uses the word - HICE “G1520 - εἷς - heis – hice. A PRIMARY NUMERAL ONE “
1. and no more than 1. - This is what the Greek manuscripts say.
So we can know that just as Yahoshua never said _ I am the Father or I am God - and He never said - - I am God. But He and His word describe Him as God and as the Father.
Here in - Rev 21:7 Yahoshaua is saying that - I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely and that He has overcome and He has inherited all things.
And that He ( Yahoshua } Shall be His { his obedient servant’s } God and His obedient servant will be His son.
He is again saying - I am The Father. Just as He said
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)
2 Peter 1:1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by Himself alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)
John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God 14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 8:24 - if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.”
John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
His name from the Isaiah prophecy - is The Almighty God, The Everlasting Father.
The Bible is very, very clear. I hope You can come to know the God of the Bible and repent and be baptised in the name Of the Father, and The Son and The Holy Spirit.
That name is - The Lord Yahoshua, The Anointing.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be Baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, For the remission of sins, & ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost Acts 2:38
GA 3:27...... For as many of you as have been BAPTIZED into Christ have put on Christ
1Cor 1:13...... Is Christ divided? ..was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the name of Paul?
Rom 6:3...... Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED into his death?
Acts 19:5 ...... When they heard this, they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus
Acts 10:48...... and he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 8:16...... (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were.. BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, & the name of Jesus
Christ, they were BAPTIZED.
Acts 19:3-5 ......"They were baptized unto Johns baptism. } Paul, SAID YOU are to BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS...... When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
Luk 24:47 Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in HIS NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: For there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
The name of Jesus Christ is a declaration of who He is
1. Wonderful - 2. Counsellor - 3. The mighty God - 4. The everlasting Father
5. The Prince of Peace
When you mention the name Jesus Christ you are calling upon all the names mentioned in Isa. 9:6
Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church. Vol. 2, pg. 263.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA reads the following...
...There has been theological controversy over the question as to whether baptism in the name of Christ only was ever held valid. St. Paul commands disciples at Ephesus to be baptized in Christ's name:
"They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." In Acts 10, St. Peter ordered others to be baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ". Philip ordered to baptized in the name of Jesus Christ". We have the explicit command of Peter "Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins (Acts, ii).
Pope Stephen required an explicit mention of the Trinity in baptism, for he quotes the pontiff as declaring that the sacramental grace is conferred because a person
has been baptized "with the invocation of the names of the Trinity, Father & Son & Holy Ghost"
Encyclopedia of Religion & Ethics (1951). II, 384, 389: "The formula used was "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion in water, the use of the name of the Lord, & the laying on of hands. To these were added, at various times & places which cannot be safely identified, (a) the trine name (Justin)"
Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (1962), I 351: "The evidence suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but 'in the name of Jesus Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus.'"
Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.
Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Jesus Christ" or 'the Lord Jesus,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."
Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church (1947), page 58: "The trinitarian baptismal formula,,, was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ."
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1957), I, 435: "The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus which still occurs even in the second & third centuries."
Canney's Encyclopedia of Religions (1970), page 53: "Persons were baptized at first 'in the name of Jesus Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus' Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized 'in the name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Ghost.'"
Encyclopedia Biblica (1899), I, 473: "It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Jesus Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Jesus.' This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single-not triple, as was the later creed."
Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. (1920), II 365: "The trinitarian formula & trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the New Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid."
FAUSSETS BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA, page 359 - Jesus. Means Jehovah Salvation. "Peter replied, Repent, & be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of ...the authenticity of water baptism today in the name of Jesus Christ, cannot be denied !
Sadly my friend – In the most respectful and humble way possible - I prove to You- That You have absolutly no scriptures for You Trinitarian Catholic faith. Pope is Your Father – King James also.
You have many, many Fathers. However Yahoshua is the only true “ ONE “ Father and Creator that You deny. While He calls to You sitting in the throne of The Father. Sitting in the Right OF The Father and Rom 8:34 Christ in the right of God. Sitting in his own right. Sitting in the heavenly place.
Sitting in the right of the throne of God. Sitting in the right of the Majesty G1722 - ε ̓ ν - en - in the high.
Sitting in the right of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens.
HE PRECEEDED FROM THE THRONE IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER.
SIT THOU FROM MY RIGHT - UNTILL I MAKE THY ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL.
The Greek word is " FROM MY RIGHT - - NOT AT MY RIGHT HAND.
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit / Dwell “ G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex FROM or OF “ my right, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex = Meaning - From or Of.
ἐκ / ἐξ “ FROM or OF “ is a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; - after, among, , by (the means of (among, forth (because, by reason) of, off (from).
Heb 1:13 - is a total contradiction in the Trinitarian Manuscripts - because when Yahoshua left the throne and bosom of the Father and came to earth - He did not come to earth to sit “ ON / AT “ the right hand of God - nor did He sit “ ON / AT “ the right hand of the throne - here on earth..
Acording to TRINITARIAN THEOLOGY - HE WAS ALREADY " AT " THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER. AND ALWAYS WILL REMAIN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER.
AFTER HIS ENEMIES ARE HIS FOOT STOOL - AFTER THIS IS DONE - Trinitarians still go round and round and round dribbling, and repeating the same lie.
The Right hand of the Father - The right Hand Of the Father. But why would God say sit at the right hand of the Father UNTIL a certain and certain time - if He was already there ?
You / we - have nothing but a total contradiction and vain preposterous foolishness - that makes no sense or conclusion. The Jes Zeus of Trinitarian never leaves the right hand of The Father. But The Father is taking Yahoshua from a specific position or place and * SAYING - SIT HERE AT MY RIGHT HAND - UNTIL THIS HAPPENS> But Your translation and faith denies this and the trinitarian Christ is a Christ that had always sat at the Right Hand or they have no clue where He came from - and they demand that He will forever sit at the Right Hand Of The Father.
This is a total lie - because the manuscripts do not match up with the translations. They Lied.
How would the Yahoshua Of The Trinity sit at / on the right hand of the Father in heaven - and come to earth and remain sitting at / on the right hand of the Father ? The Manuscripts prove this heretical desception to be a complete error and contradiction. - -G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex = Meaning - From or Of.
There is no verse in the Manuscripts that say that Yahoshua was ever sitting at or on the right of The Father - Sit / Dwell “ G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex FROM or OF “ my right - Come from my right - untill the enemies are a footstool.
Yahoshua rose from the dead and as where He came From or Of the Right of the Father He returns to exist IN the literal throne -
Yet the Trinitarian translators have Christ sitting “ on “ the right hand of God - here on earth- here in Heb 1:13.
From the original Greek manuscripts in Heb 1:13 Christ is to Sit / Dwell “ “ G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex FROM or OF OUT - from the right of God - until the time that - He made His enemies footstool?...........
This word Greek word ἐκ / ἐξ “ G1537 - ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex = Means - FROM or OF OUT OF
It is always used in the context of such verses hare in Heb 1:13 Mat 2:6 For “ FROM / OUT OF “ ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex - “ OF “thee “ Bethlehem “ shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
And also as always as we see here Mat 2:15 “ FROM / OUT OF ἐκ / ἐξ “ “ OF “ Egypt have I called my son.
ἐκ / ἐξ - ek - ex is always meaning - “ FROM / OUT OF “ in the manuscripts - Yet the Catholic Trinitarian translators have Christ sitting “ on / at “ the right hand of God - here on earth- here in Heb 1:13. - When the Greek word is “ FROM / OUT OF “
Last edited:
Apple7
New member
Show us the word 'Father' in this passage.
Furthermore, show us the word 'Father' anywhere in the entire chapter.
Good luck...
Apple7
New member
Apple7
New member
Bump for the runner...
If and when you ever do come back, please try hard to stay on topic, and remember that I'm NOT Catholic, I do NOT use the KJV, and I don't care how much you loath Trinitarians.
Thus...99% of your past posts are total garbage and don't even apply...please remember that BEFORE you slavishly cut-n-paste your decades old material, ad nausea, as your reply...thinking that you have actually said something smart, when, in fact, you have merely further debased your limited intellect...
To get back on track;
John 1:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
1 John 1:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV)
What Was Heard, Seen, and Touched
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
Colossians 1:16-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [a]principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Reconciled in Christ
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
Colossians 2:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead [a]bodily;
John 1:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
1 John 1:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV)
What Was Heard, Seen, and Touched
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
Colossians 1:16-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [a]principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Reconciled in Christ
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
Colossians 2:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead [a]bodily;
From EveryStudent.com
The following clearly and briefly explains the Trinity...three gods or one?
You and I live in a three-dimensional world. All physical objects have a certain height, width, and depth. One person can look like someone else, or behave like someone else, or even sound like someone else. But a person cannot actually be the same as another person. They are distinct individuals.
God, however, lives without the limitations of a three-dimensional universe. He is spirit. And he is infinitely more complex than we are.
That is why Jesus the Son can be different from the Father. And, yet the same.
The Bible clearly speaks of: God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit. But emphasizes that there is only ONE God.
If we were to use math, it would not be, 1+1+1=3. It would be 1x1x1=1. God is a triune God.
Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity.
Some have tried to give human illustrations for the Trinity, such as H2O being water, ice and steam (all different forms, but all are H2O). Another illustration would be the sun. From it we receive light, heat and radiation. Three distinct aspects, but only one sun.
No illustration is going to be perfect.
But from the very beginning we see God as a Trinity. In the book of Genesis, the first book in the Bible, God says, "Let us make man in our image…male and female he created them."1 You see here a mixture of plural and singular pronouns.
When Moses asked God for his name, God replied, "I am" - eternally existing.
Jesus used the same phrase numerous times.
"I am the light of the world..."
"I am the bread of life..."
"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Abraham is someone mentioned in Genesis, thousands of years before Jesus came to earth. Yet, Jesus said of himself, "Before Abraham was born, I am." The Jews understood fully what Jesus was saying because they picked up stones to kill him for "blasphemy" - claiming to be God.2 Jesus has always existed.
This came up time and time again. Jesus was so clear about his unique relationship with the Father. This is why, “the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God.”3
For all of eternity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have always been in relationship and communication with each other, yet not as three gods…as one God.
This answers the question:
If Jesus is God, who was he praying to?
On earth, Jesus continued to talk to the Father, and the Father and Spirit continued to communicate with him.
Though not a complete list, here is some other Scripture that shows God is one, in Trinity:
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!"4
"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God."5
There is no God but one.6
And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."7
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit."8
Jesus said: "I and the Father are one."9
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father."10
"He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me."11
If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.12
"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit."13
And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God."14
[Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him."15
The following clearly and briefly explains the Trinity...three gods or one?
You and I live in a three-dimensional world. All physical objects have a certain height, width, and depth. One person can look like someone else, or behave like someone else, or even sound like someone else. But a person cannot actually be the same as another person. They are distinct individuals.
God, however, lives without the limitations of a three-dimensional universe. He is spirit. And he is infinitely more complex than we are.
That is why Jesus the Son can be different from the Father. And, yet the same.
The Bible clearly speaks of: God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit. But emphasizes that there is only ONE God.
If we were to use math, it would not be, 1+1+1=3. It would be 1x1x1=1. God is a triune God.
Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity.
Some have tried to give human illustrations for the Trinity, such as H2O being water, ice and steam (all different forms, but all are H2O). Another illustration would be the sun. From it we receive light, heat and radiation. Three distinct aspects, but only one sun.
No illustration is going to be perfect.
But from the very beginning we see God as a Trinity. In the book of Genesis, the first book in the Bible, God says, "Let us make man in our image…male and female he created them."1 You see here a mixture of plural and singular pronouns.
When Moses asked God for his name, God replied, "I am" - eternally existing.
Jesus used the same phrase numerous times.
"I am the light of the world..."
"I am the bread of life..."
"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Abraham is someone mentioned in Genesis, thousands of years before Jesus came to earth. Yet, Jesus said of himself, "Before Abraham was born, I am." The Jews understood fully what Jesus was saying because they picked up stones to kill him for "blasphemy" - claiming to be God.2 Jesus has always existed.
This came up time and time again. Jesus was so clear about his unique relationship with the Father. This is why, “the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God.”3
For all of eternity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have always been in relationship and communication with each other, yet not as three gods…as one God.
This answers the question:
If Jesus is God, who was he praying to?
On earth, Jesus continued to talk to the Father, and the Father and Spirit continued to communicate with him.
Though not a complete list, here is some other Scripture that shows God is one, in Trinity:
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!"4
"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God."5
There is no God but one.6
And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."7
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit."8
Jesus said: "I and the Father are one."9
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father."10
"He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me."11
If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.12
"Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit."13
And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God."14
[Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him."15
Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo,
in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts,
and in the midst of the elders,
stood a Lamb as it had been slain,
having seven horns and seven eyes,
which are the seven Spirits of God
sent forth into all the earth.
So.........
Isn't it wonderful?
What have you shown or proved?
Nothing.
It is not me
It is the Spirit within me.
Luke 12:12
For the Holy Ghost shall teach you
in the same hour what ye ought to say.