The Thorn on Paul's Side

[Ben Masada]

Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

No! Absolutely not. He followed God's Law as a predator follows the victim: To destroy it. If you read Romans 7:9-25, the Law served only to bring death to him. (v.8) Without the Law, Paul could live in sin without any pain of conscience but after he read about the Law, sin revived and caused his life to become unbearable to live since to live meant death to him. (v.9)

Somehow, Paul knew that the Law is spiritual but, what could he do if he was carnal, sold under sin? (v.14) It seemed that Paul had got so accustomed to the way he used to live before that, after he found out from the Law that it was sinful, he started hating to have to live that way but he would do all the same. (v.15) Then he arrived to the conclusion of how sinful was to live that way but he could not change the sinful condition that dwelt in him. (v.17)

What had become an unbearable struggle for Paul was to love God's Law in his mind while serving the law of sin in his flesh. (v.22,23) Therefore, he considered himself a wretched man who could find no deliverance from the body of death that forced him to serve the Law of God in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (v. 24,25)

All the above is about the famous sinful thorn on the side of Paul. Do you have any idea what could it have been? I can't be more specific here than I have been, and tell you what every thing was about Paul but, one more thing I feel allowed to add. Paul had been born on the wrong time in History. Had he been born today, he would not have to live under such sinful repressed feelings which made his life so miserable.

 

[oatmeal]

Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

No! Absolutely not. He followed God's Law as a predator follows the victim: To destroy it. If you read Romans 7:9-25, the Law served only to bring death to him. (v.8) Without the Law, Paul could live in sin without any pain of conscience but after he read about the Law, sin revived and caused his life to become unbearable to live since to live meant death to him. (v.9)

Somehow, Paul knew that the Law is spiritual but, what could he do if he was carnal, sold under sin? (v.14) It seemed that Paul had got so accustomed to the way he used to live before that, after he found out from the Law that it was sinful, he started hating to have to live that way but he would do all the same. (v.15) Then he arrived to the conclusion of how sinful was to live that way but he could not change the sinful condition that dwelt in him. (v.17)

What had become an unbearable struggle for Paul was to love God's Law in his mind while serving the law of sin in his flesh. (v.22,23) Therefore, he considered himself a wretched man who could find no deliverance from the body of death that forced him to serve the Law of God in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (v. 24,25)

All the above is about the famous sinful thorn on the side of Paul. Do you have any idea what could it have been? I can't be more specific here than I have been, and tell you what every thing was about Paul but, one more thing I feel allowed to add. Paul had been born on the wrong time in History. Had he been born today, he would not have to live under such sinful repressed feelings which made his life so miserable.

He knew and lived the truth in Roman 13:10

Paul's thorn in the flesh was the people, mainly the Judeans who opposed and obstructed Paul's efforts to carry out his God given ministry.

People who falsely accused him of, (how did you put it?)

"He followed God's Law as a predator follows the victim: To destroy it. "

Read I Corinthians 11 to find out what Paul prayed to God about

 

[chrysostom]

interesting topic
but
do not understand what you are saying

it is my understanding that paul could not stop sinning
and
complained to God about that

most of the saints admitted to this
that
they could not stop sinning
and
continued to ask God for help regarding this

 

[Ben Masada]

The Thorn on Paul's Side

He knew and lived the truth in Roman 13:10

Paul's thorn in the flesh was the people, mainly the Judeans who opposed and obstructed Paul's efforts to carry out his God given ministry.

People who falsely accused him of, (how did you put it?)

Read I Corinthians 11 to find out what Paul prayed to God about

Paul's thorn in the flesh was sinful of himself and caused by what he learned from the Law. Nothing to do with the People. You seem to be telling me that you either did not care to read the thread or you read it and did not understand it. Or, probably, if you understood it, you willingly turned off the light of your soul to prevent a spiritual shock.

 

[oatmeal]

Paul's thorn in the flesh was sinful of himself and caused by what he learned from the Law. Nothing to do with the People. You seem to be telling me that you either did not care to read the thread or you read it and did not understand it. Or, probably, if you understood it, you willingly turned off the light of your soul to prevent a spiritual shock.

Evidently, you are guessing instead of finding out from scripture.

Guessing is a waste of time, when you could look for answers in scripture and find out for sure.

 

[chrysostom]

Evidently, you are guessing instead of finding out from scripture.

Guessing is a waste of time, when you could look for answers in scripture and find out for sure.

would that be a threat to your theology
if
you found out that paul could not stop sinning?

 

[Ben Masada]

interesting topic
but
do not understand what you are saying

it is my understanding that paul could not stop sinning
and
complained to God about that

most of the saints admitted to this
that
they could not stop sinning
and
continued to ask God for help regarding this

That's called struggle against sinful repressed feelings which one just can't get rid of especially something akin to a previous style of life which has become ingrained in one's nature as if it has almost become of a second nature.

 

[chrysostom]

That's called struggle against sinful repressed feelings which one just can't get rid of especially something akin to a previous style of life which has become ingrained in one's nature as if it has almost become of a second nature.

thanks for clearing that up

 

[Ben Masada]

The Thorn on Paul's Side

thanks for clearing that up

But of course Chrysostom, you are welcome.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Thorn on Paul's Side

would that be a threat to your theology
if
you found out that paul could not stop sinning?

Absolutely not! Paul had ceased as a Jew since the day he founded Christianity in the city of Antioch. (Acts 11:26) As I have said before, his thorn in his flesh started picking when he found out from the Law that his previous style of life was sinful. (Rom. 7:14)

 

[chrysostom]

Absolutely not! Paul had ceased as a Jew since the day he founded Christianity in the city of Antioch. (Acts 11:26) As I have said before, his thorn in his flesh started picking when he found out from the Law that his previous style of life was sinful. (Rom. 7:14)

are you saying paul was no longer sinning when he wrote about the thorn in his side?

 

[God's Truth]

Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

No! Absolutely not. He followed God's Law as a predator follows the victim: To destroy it. If you read Romans 7:9-25, the Law served only to bring death to him. (v.8) Without the Law, Paul could live in sin without any pain of conscience but after he read about the Law, sin revived and caused his life to become unbearable to live since to live meant death to him. (v.9)

Somehow, Paul knew that the Law is spiritual but, what could he do if he was carnal, sold under sin? (v.14) It seemed that Paul had got so accustomed to the way he used to live before that, after he found out from the Law that it was sinful, he started hating to have to live that way but he would do all the same. (v.15) Then he arrived to the conclusion of how sinful was to live that way but he could not change the sinful condition that dwelt in him. (v.17)

What had become an unbearable struggle for Paul was to love God's Law in his mind while serving the law of sin in his flesh. (v.22,23) Therefore, he considered himself a wretched man who could find no deliverance from the body of death that forced him to serve the Law of God in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (v. 24,25)

All the above is about the famous sinful thorn on the side of Paul. Do you have any idea what could it have been? I can't be more specific here than I have been, and tell you what every thing was about Paul but, one more thing I feel allowed to add. Paul had been born on the wrong time in History. Had he been born today, he would not have to live under such sinful repressed feelings which made his life so miserable.

Paul was explaining in a very exaggerated way how trying to obey the law without faith was not possible.

It wasn't a "sinful" thorn in Paul's side. Paul says the thorn was a messenger of Satan.
What do messengers do? Think about it. Messengers give messages. What kind of messages would Paul be getting from the messenger of Satan? Paul says, "That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."
The messenger of Satan was likely telling Paul the messages from Satan! Satan was probably tormenting Paul by describing the hardships and persecutions and difficulties Paul was going to go through.

Ben Masada, you do not obey God. You pretend to be a Jew but you do not have blood to clean yourself. Since you know you have no blood of an animal and a temple in which to sacrifice, you say God did not really say we needed blood.

You exchange the truth of God for a lie.

 

[God's Truth]

are you saying paul was no longer sinning when he wrote about the thorn in his side?

People such as yourself do more harm than good. You are driving people such as Ben further from the Truth.

 

[God's Truth]

That's called struggle against sinful repressed feelings which one just can't get rid of especially something akin to a previous style of life which has become ingrained in one's nature as if it has almost become of a second nature.

Pastors in many if not all denominations teach that falseness, that Paul, after Jesus saved him, struggled with sin so much and was the worst of sinners.

So many Christians say that in Romans 7, Paul was speaking of his life after Jesus saved him, that he could not stop sinning, that he could not do good, that he was a wretched man. I can hardly believe that people actually believe Apostle Paul was speaking of himself as a sinner AFTER Jesus saved him. That is utterly absurd.

Do you really believe Paul is calling himself a wretched man after Jesus saved him? No way had Paul spoke of himself in such a way after Jesus saved him. Paul asks, “Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?” Jesus saved Paul from his body of death! Through life through the Spirit, we are no longer slaves to sin! Read Romans chapter 8. In Romans chapter 8, you will learn about life for Paul and all true believers.

If you want to know how to stop sinning, I will tell you how.

 

[john w]

Again-it is a reference to people who opposed Paul's message, as "thorn in the flesh" was a common figure of speech at the time, akin to today's "a pain in the neck."

"But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell." Numbers 33:55 KJV

Notice "those."

"Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you." Joshua 23:13 KJV

Notice "they."

"Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you." Judges 2:3 KJV

Notice "they...their."

Survey this great book.

 

[Danoh]

Again-it is a reference to people who opposed Paul's message, as "thorn in the flesh" was a common figure of speech at the time, akin to today's "a pain in the neck."

"But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell." Numbers 33:55 KJV

Notice "those."

"Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you." Joshua 23:13 KJV

Notice "they."

"Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you." Judges 2:3 KJV

Notice "they...their."

Survey this great book.

Exactly!

2 Cor. 12:

10. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

No! Absolutely not. He followed God's Law as a predator follows the victim: To destroy it. If you read Romans 7:9-25, the Law served only to bring death to him. (v.8) Without the Law, Paul could live in sin without any pain of conscience but after he read about the Law, sin revived and caused his life to become unbearable to live since to live meant death to him. (v.9)

Somehow, Paul knew that the Law is spiritual but, what could he do if he was carnal, sold under sin? (v.14) It seemed that Paul had got so accustomed to the way he used to live before that, after he found out from the Law that it was sinful, he started hating to have to live that way but he would do all the same. (v.15) Then he arrived to the conclusion of how sinful was to live that way but he could not change the sinful condition that dwelt in him. (v.17)

What had become an unbearable struggle for Paul was to love God's Law in his mind while serving the law of sin in his flesh. (v.22,23) Therefore, he considered himself a wretched man who could find no deliverance from the body of death that forced him to serve the Law of God in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (v. 24,25)

All the above is about the famous sinful thorn on the side of Paul. Do you have any idea what could it have been? I can't be more specific here than I have been, and tell you what every thing was about Paul but, one more thing I feel allowed to add. Paul had been born on the wrong time in History. Had he been born today, he would not have to live under such sinful repressed feelings which made his life so miserable.

Where does it say in his side? It just says in his flesh. Meaning a physical problem.

Anyway i would guess his physical issue was his eyesight.

Galatians 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

Another example of Paul's poor eyesight is found in Acts 23:3-5. Paul was in the Sanhedrin at this point and referred to the high priest as a "white-washed wall" and those who stood by him asked why he was insulting the high priest. Paul responded by telling them that he did not realize that the man was the high priest. Though Paul, previously being a Pharisee, would have been able to recognize the high priest quite easily. Yet at this point he seemed unable to identify the high priest, even though the high priest would have stood out because he wore special garments and accessories. For a former Pharisee to have not recognized him is likely explained through understanding that Paul was not able to see him properly—giving weight to theories of trouble with his vision.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/thorn.cfm

 

[Danoh]

Where does it say in his side? It just says in his flesh. Meaning a physical problem.

Anyway i would guess his physical issue was his eyesight.

Galatians 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/thorn.cfm

Remember why Paul called the High Priest that - Paul had just been smacked into next week!

In Galatians 6:11, he again mentions those persecutions he suffered for Christ's sake.

Stone some one often enough; starve them; shipwreck them, and all the rest; and their eyesight can be eventually greatly impacted.

------------------------------------------------

http://www.everydayhealth.com/vision-center/head-injuries.aspx

Head Injuries Can Lead to Serious Vision Problems

By Eric Metcalf, MPH | Medically reviewed by Pat F. Bass III, MD, MS, MPH

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, at least 1.4 million Americans suffer and are treated for a traumatic brain injury every year, a serious event that can create problems with normal brain functioning. Even more people suffer head injuries but don't seek medical attention; luckily, most of these traumatic brain injuries are mild, such as a concussion.

Eye and vision problems are fairly common after a brain injury. Some vision problems can be due to trauma to the eye, says Majid Moshirfar, MD, an ophthalmologist at the Moran Eye Center at the University of Utah. But many other vision problems are actually caused by injury to your brain.

If you have suffered a head injury — even a mild one — it's important to see a doctor who can make sure that your eyes and brain are still working properly and that there are no vision problems that could show up later.

Even mild head injuries, such as whiplash from a minor auto accident, can cause vision problems, Moshirfar says. The symptoms are varied. You may, for instance, have trouble focusing your eyes when switching your gaze between near and far objects. You may see double. Or you may feel nauseous or vomit when you shift your gaze around. After relatively minor trauma, people can also experience headaches or sensitivity to light, and words on a page may appear to move.

Head Injuries and Vision Problems

More serious vision problems can also result from a blow to the head or other head injury. These can include:


• Retinal detachment. Your retina is a thin layer of tissue lining the inside of the back of your eye. Its role is to help turn the images entering your eye into signals that go to the brain through the optic nerve. "I've seen patients who have a head injury and they bleed into the retina and have retinal detachment in both eyes," Dr. Moshirfar says. "That's a very serious problem requiring surgical intervention." In a retinal detachment, the retina comes loose — an issue that can potentially cause permanent blindness. Doctors may be able to reattach the retina, but it's imperative that you seek treatment quickly.

• Vitreous hemorrhage. Each of your eyes contain a clear, jellylike substance called the vitreous humor. Light entering your pupil (the black spot in the center of your eye) passes through the vitreous before striking the retina. Head injuries can cause blood vessels in your eye to bleed into the vitreous. Though these injuries can be quite problematic at first, Moshirfar says, most vitreous hemorrhages clear up over time with minimal problems, although some people require medication to speed their recovery and avoid further vision problems.

• Optic nerve damage. Head injuries also have the potential to cause increased pressure within the skull. This in turn puts pressure on your optic nerves, which carry messages from the eyes to the brain. This pressure can "choke" the optic nerves, cutting off blood circulation. The damage to the nerves can be severe, Moshirfar says. The resulting problems can cause vision loss severe enough to lead to complete blindness.

If you've suffered any kind of injury to the head that has resulted in changes in vision, getting prompt treatment is critical. "Patients who have even subtle changes in their vision — such as fluctuation in their vision, double vision, or difficulty focusing at near and distant objects — need to be examined by an eye-care specialist or neurologist," Moshirfar advises.

Bottom Line on Head Injuries and Eye Problems

If you’ve had any kind of head injury and you are having eye symptoms, don't wait. Get in to see a specialist who can provide the right diagnosis and develop a treatment plan that works for you.

 

[Jacob]

Please evaluate your interpretation Ben Masada, and see if it comes into agreement with this Bible verse.

Acts 21:24 NASB - 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Thorn on Paul's Side

are you saying paul was no longer sinning when he wrote about the thorn in his side?

On the contrary, Paul was living in sin and unable to get rid of his new condition caused by the Law. Since Paul could not get rid of the thorn in his flesh he decided to make of himself an exception to the rule not to serve two masters: God in his mind only and sin in his flesh. (Rom. 7:25; Mat. 6:24) He had to do that because he considered himself a wretched man without the strength to deliver himself from his body of death.(Rom. 7:24)