The Simplicity of the Gospel / The Complicated Religions

[Ask Mr. Religion]

God and only God grants repentance

God and only God grants repentance

The point there wasn't that Gentiles were being saved -- the promise of that goes at least as far back as Moses. What they were surprised at is that "dogs" were being unquestionably saved while their own prophesied priest-nation remained in obstinate unbelief. That was NOT what they had been told to expect...hence, Paul and the revelation of the mystery.

So back to Luke...the Reformed view is that reprobates cannot repent and the elect won't perish. That makes His warning meaningless.

No, the point of Acts 11:18 is that it is God who grants repentance, not man. It is a Divine gift. How then is man responsible for not having it? We are called upon to repent in order that we may feel our own inability to do so, and consequently be thrown upon God and petition Him to perform this work of grace in our hearts. The call to repentance is but one of God's means in Scripture to bring His children into the Kingdom. Hence, there is nothing meaningless at all in Our Lord's statement.

AMR

 

[musterion]

No, the point of Acts 11:18 is that it is God who grants repentance, not man.

Not the point. They were shocked to see that God had granted salvation to "dogs" as a whole entirely apart from the prophesied use of a restored Israel to save them, and that is exactly what happened.

You deny the Bible fact that ALL individuals CAN repent upon hearing the Truth, but ALL are also free to choose NOT to. That's precisely why unbelief is invariably condemned.

As with grace, repentance was indeed granted to Gentiles apart from the priest nation. IT WAS NOT FORCED, COERCED OR IMPOSED.

It's the only way God can justly take vengeance on those who REFUSE to receive a love of the Truth, and not be lying about WHY they won't believe.

It's the only way Christ could say repent or perish and not have lied when He said it.

Your view makes it a lie, ALL OF IT. To reduce it all to God either granting ability to hear and change the mind, or not, negates EVERYTHING.

 

[musterion]

Reminder: reprobates can't repent. The elect can't perish. By your own rules.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Back to the basics - fallen man is spiritually dead, not wounded

Back to the basics - fallen man is spiritually dead, not wounded

Not the point. They were shocked to see that God had granted salvation to "dogs" as a whole entirely apart from the prophesied use of a restored Israel to save them, and that is exactly what happened.

I'll weigh in, but beforehand, if you are arguing some Gentile national election view (your as a whole), as in the infelicitous Jacob and Esau represent nations, then there is little to be gained by pursuing this discussion of a specific text further.

My starting point is that God grants repentance to individuals. Repentance is a grace from God and God alone. Fallen man cannot muster up repentance any more than he can faith. God must act beforehand. That is what Scripture, and Acts 11:18, in particular, teaches. If you think fallen man retains ability to choose wisely via some Romanist notion of prevenient grace (Rome invented it, anti-Calvinists adopted it) that leaves some minuscule seed of moral ability to choose wisely in the non-believer, there are bigger issues at hand, namely, grasping the actual impact of the Fall of Adam upon all his posterity. In other words, if your view is that fallen man is merely spiritually wounded, and not actually spiritually dead, the discussion needs to go back to the basics.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Arguments on doctrine proceed from God's revealed will, not His secret will

Arguments on doctrine proceed from God's revealed will, not His secret will

Reminder: reprobates can't repent. The elect can't perish. By your own rules.

If you are going to quote my own rules to me then do me the courtesy of being accurate. When you can specifically identify the reprobate and the elect, your point will stand. Until that time we operate upon the revealed will of God, not that which has not been revealed (Deut. 29:29).

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

I'll weigh in, but beforehand, if you are arguing some Gentile national election view (your as a whole), as in the infelicitous Jacob and Esau represent nations, then there is little to be gained by pursuing this discussion of a specific text further.

My starting point is that God grants repentance to individuals. Repentance is a grace from God and God alone. Fallen man cannot muster up repentance any more than he can faith. God must act beforehand. That is what Scripture, and Acts 11:18, in particular, teaches. If you think fallen man retains ability to choose wisely via some Romanist notion of prevenient grace (Rome invented it, anti-Calvinists adopted it) that leaves some minuscule seed of moral ability to choose wisely in the non-believer, there are bigger issues at hand, namely, grasping the actual impact of the Fall of Adam upon all his posterity. In other words, if your view is that fallen man is merely spiritually wounded, and not actually spiritually dead, the discussion needs to go back to the basics.

AMR

What kind of a God would create a man spiritually dead so that he cannot hear the Gospel and be born again?

 

[Nanja]

What kind of a God would create a man spiritually dead so that he cannot hear the Gospel and be born again?

The God who does according to His Will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth Dan 4:35!

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

God provides to those He has chosen what He commands

God provides to those He has chosen what He commands

What kind of a God would create a man spiritually dead so that he cannot hear the Gospel and be born again?

Such is the state of all fallen in Adam. Adam was not created as such, but was made upright, yet mutable.

Adam's unfallen state was the ideal for all mankind.

Sadly, Adam failed in his probation, and the result is our terrible state of affairs today. Adam's sin is imputed to all his progeny by God, Who, in His mercy, has provided a means of restoration to all of His chosen children via the active and passive obedience of Our Lord. No one deserves mercy from God, only justice.

Those so loved before time will be made to hear by God and be saved. That God saves anyone should drive us to our knees in gratitude, fear, and trembling.

AMR

 

[musterion]

What kind of a God would create a man spiritually dead so that he cannot hear the Gospel and be born again?

And THEN lie by condemning that man for refusing to believe Him and be saved!

 

[musterion]

If you are going to quote my own rules to me then do me the courtesy of being accurate. When you can specifically identify the reprobate and the elect, your point will stand. Until that time we operate upon the revealed will of God, not that which has not been revealed (Deut. 29:29).

AMR

Stop tapdancing, it's unmanly. We both know what we're talking about.

Only the recipients of TULIP's "U" can and will be saved. The rest were born to burn.

 

[Robert Pate]

Such is the state of all fallen in Adam. Adam was not created as such, but was made upright, yet mutable.

Adam's unfallen state was the ideal for all mankind.

Sadly, Adam failed in his probation, and the result is our terrible state of affairs today. Adam's sin is imputed to all his progeny by God, Who, in His mercy, has provided a means of restoration to all of His chosen children via the active and passive obedience of Our Lord. No one deserves mercy from God, only justice.

Those so loved before time will be made to hear by God and be saved. That God saves anyone should drive us to our knees in gratitude, fear, and trembling.

AMR

You do not have saving faith.

To believe that God damns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam is not saving faith.

Worse than that, to believe that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world means that you don't have faith in Christ. No faith in Christ, means no salvation.

You think that you are saved, but you are not.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Opinions Are No Substitute for Proper Exegesis

Opinions Are No Substitute for Proper Exegesis

You do not have saving faith.

To believe that God damns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam is not saving faith.

Worse than that, to believe that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world means that you don't have faith in Christ. No faith in Christ, means no salvation.

You think that you are saved, but you are not.

Robert,

When you have more than your usual opinions seasoned with naked Scripture citations, perhaps the discussion will proceed in a manner that is edifying for all concerned. :AMR:

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The non-believer sin because he is a sinner. He do not become sinner by sinning.

The non-believer sin because he is a sinner. He do not become sinner by sinning.

Stop tapdancing, it's unmanly. We both know what we're talking about.

Only the recipients of TULIP's "U" can and will be saved. The rest were born to burn.

How about you stop acerbically parroting the usual anti-Calvinist canards? You know better. The issue underlying all disagreements between the Reformed and the anti-Calvinist begins with a proper understanding of the impact of the fall of Adam. All sinned in Adam, just as if we were there with him in the Garden. All of Adam's progeny possess no moral ability to choose the righteousness of God until God the Holy Spirit first performs a work within them, regenerating them from spiritual death to life. Once so quickened, the person will not not believe of his own free will. The revealed will of God teaches us that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved and never lost to Him.

Do some not do so? Of course.
Are they able to do so, yet do not do so? Of course not. There state of moral inability requires an act of God (Eze. 36:26).

Why don't they? They are born sinners, as are we all. A person does not become a sinner because he sins. A person sins because he is a sinner from birth.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert,

When you have more than your usual opinions seasoned with naked Scripture citations, perhaps the discussion will proceed in a manner that is edifying for all concerned. :AMR:

AMR

If you want to be saved renounce Calvinism and believe that God is just, merciful, righteous and is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

And then profess that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Salvation has always been by grace through faith. You don't have faith. What you have is religion.

 

[Eagles Wings]

You do not have saving faith.

To believe that God damns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam is not saving faith.

Worse than that, to believe that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world means that you don't have faith in Christ. No faith in Christ, means no salvation.

You think that you are saved, but you are not.

As my Dad used to say, "what a crock of bull".

You have no surety of who is elect or reprobate. You are not God.

 

[Robert Pate]

As my Dad used to say, "what a crock of bull".

You have no surety of who is elect or reprobate. You are not God.

No, I am not God, but I have God's word and God's word says that we are justified by faith. That leaves out Calvinism and all other religions.

 

[Eagles Wings]

No, I am not God, but I have God's word and God's word says that we are justified by faith. That leaves out Calvinism and all other religions.

Your opinion of Calvinism makes so difference to me.

Your false conclusions regarding the state of another's regenerated faith in Christ, leads me to believe you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[beloved57]

No, I am not God, but I have God's word and God's word says that we are justified by faith. That leaves out Calvinism and all other religions.

Your freewill is god ! It saved you from your sins !

 

[Robert Pate]

Your opinion of Calvinism makes so difference to me. My position is that none of us (humans) can know with certainty if another (human) is elect or reprobate.

If you don't have confidence that you are saved, chances are that you are not.

Salvation is not a think so, its a know so.

 

[Robert Pate]

Your freewill is god ! It saved you from your sins !

That is not true. Why don't you try to say something truthful for a change?