beloved57
Well-known member
Look who's talking with your do or die law religion.
The Simplicity of the Gospel / The Complicated Religions
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Look who's talking with your do or die law religion.
And you are in the same boat, you think that Calvinism saves.
Dialogos
Well-known member
Hey Grosnick,
Been awhile.
Some Calvinists probably do hold to some false doctrines. As do some Arminians, some Mid Acts Dispensationalists, Etc...
The lump and dump method of evaluating theological claims doesn't result in very fruitful discussions.
If you have some scriptures verses you would like to specifically address, post em.
The character of God is to be Holy, Holy, Holy. That is the core of Calvinistic soteriology, pray tell what fault you find in that.
The intent of the God of the bible, insofar as human are concerned, was to redeem a people for Christ's own possession (see 1 Peter 2:9).
So that we may proclaim His praises.
God is under no obligation to save anyone, that fact that He has chosen to save the elect is gracious indeed!
Been awhile.
Some Calvinists probably do hold to some false doctrines. As do some Arminians, some Mid Acts Dispensationalists, Etc...
The lump and dump method of evaluating theological claims doesn't result in very fruitful discussions.
If you have some scriptures verses you would like to specifically address, post em.
The character of God is to be Holy, Holy, Holy. That is the core of Calvinistic soteriology, pray tell what fault you find in that.
The intent of the God of the bible, insofar as human are concerned, was to redeem a people for Christ's own possession (see 1 Peter 2:9).
So that we may proclaim His praises.
God is under no obligation to save anyone, that fact that He has chosen to save the elect is gracious indeed!
Jesus has provided salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.
The elect are those who have elected to believe in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.
Since salvation has been provided for ALL MEN, 1 Timothy 2:4. The call now is be a "Whosoever". "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
Dialogos
Well-known member
Robert,
Perhaps it is my brief hiatus from TOL that has dulled my memory enough that I would venture to provide and answer to your proof texts. I am pretty sure that this is well-trodden ground between you and I, AMR and a host of other Calvinists on the boards.
Nevertheless, I'll address them.
Hebrews 2:9, like all other scriptures, needs to be looked at in context.
Specifically, it is always helpful to keep reading.
(Hebrews 2:9-11 ESV) But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering. For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers,
The "everyone" that Paul is speaking of are sons, saved , sanctified and Christ's brothers.
And I agree, every single one of God's sons, who are saved, being sanctified and made brother's by the blood of Christ are those for whom Jesus tasted death.
1 Tim 2:4 is also clarified by its context.
(1 Timothy 2:1-4 ESV) First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God desires all kinds of men (hint: the greek word πας is often accurately translated as meaning "all kinds" or "all manner" rather than every single one as it does in Matthew 5:11).
So just like Paul wants TImothy to lead the Ephesian church to pray for all manner of men, including kings and those in high positions, rather than just those who are poor and needy, God desires all manner of people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (including kings and those of high position, not just the poor and needy).
Context makes a pretty big difference Robert.
I'll wait for a response, though, honestly, I won't expect one.
Perhaps it is my brief hiatus from TOL that has dulled my memory enough that I would venture to provide and answer to your proof texts. I am pretty sure that this is well-trodden ground between you and I, AMR and a host of other Calvinists on the boards.
Nevertheless, I'll address them.
Hebrews 2:9, like all other scriptures, needs to be looked at in context.
Specifically, it is always helpful to keep reading.
(Hebrews 2:9-11 ESV) But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering. For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers,
The "everyone" that Paul is speaking of are sons, saved , sanctified and Christ's brothers.
And I agree, every single one of God's sons, who are saved, being sanctified and made brother's by the blood of Christ are those for whom Jesus tasted death.
1 Tim 2:4 is also clarified by its context.
(1 Timothy 2:1-4 ESV) First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God desires all kinds of men (hint: the greek word πας is often accurately translated as meaning "all kinds" or "all manner" rather than every single one as it does in Matthew 5:11).
So just like Paul wants TImothy to lead the Ephesian church to pray for all manner of men, including kings and those in high positions, rather than just those who are poor and needy, God desires all manner of people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (including kings and those of high position, not just the poor and needy).
Context makes a pretty big difference Robert.
I'll wait for a response, though, honestly, I won't expect one.
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements and promoting salvation by works, by what a sinner does.
You have proven nothing. Worse yet you think that the Bible is full of contradictions. Calvinist like yourself have problems with the Bible. If it doesn't fit your Calvinist god you will change scripture and change words in the Bible so as to appease your Calvinist god.
You can never come to the truth because you are so busy defending your Calvinist god that you don't have time to find the truth. You will say and do anything to defend your phony god.
You love your Calvinist God so much that you are even willing to call scripture false.
beloved57
Well-known member
Talking about the simplicity of the Gospel. That is a joke coming from you, you don't even believe that Christ death alone saved sinners He died for!
Your Calvinist god has blinded you to the truth of the Gospel.
In the Gospel Jesus atones for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 4:14, so that, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
Your Calvinist god is really screwed up isn't he?
Dialogos
Well-known member
Yup,
This is pretty much what I expected as a reply.
:chuckle:
Good to see ya' again Robert.
I believe that there are about 300 scriptures in the Bible concerning "whosoever" "all men" "Jesus is the savior of the whole world" "Justification by faith" "Salvation by grace through faith" etc. Maybe you should read them.
You are now supposed to defend what I said about your phony Calvinist God.
Can it be that you cannot defend him?
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Robert basically posts blogs here at TOL. He really is not able to defend his blog posts, preferring to wave off any substantive answers.
AMR
Robert Pate Just Blogs
Robert basically posts blogs here at TOL. He really is not able to defend his blog posts, preferring to wave off any substantive answers.
AMR
Nanja
Well-known member
You are not justified by your own faith of the flesh, but by the Faith which is a Fruit of the Spirit Given to all God's Elect when they are Born of God Gal. 5:22!
And when are God's elect born of God?
Nanja
Well-known member
They were Chosen in Christ to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:7 and predestined to the Adoption of Children Eph. 1:5 before the foundation of the World, but made manifest in time. Just as Jesus told Nicodemus who was an Elect Child of God in John 3:5-7. So, in time, they are born again, or Born of the Spirit of God.
Rom 8:14-17
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
How do you know you are one of them unless you make a conscious decision?
Nanja
Well-known member
The New Birth is received passively.