beloved57
Well-known member
Do you believe in the saving effects of the Death of Christ !
The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Of course. Because Jesus died for the sins of the whole world God can now forgive sinners who seek forgiveness on the basis of Jesus' propitiation. If Jesus had not died for the sins of the world God could never have forgiven anyone of their sins.
beloved57
Well-known member
Do you believe in the saving death of Christ? Or do you believe that sinners Christ died for shall be lost in their sins?
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Christ died for everyone. That some do not accept God's gracious offer does not change that fact.
Jesus offered Himself as the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
By Jesus' death on the cross God reconciled the whole world unto Himself, but that does not mean He saved the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
God did His part in reconciling the world unto Himself and now it is up to every sinner to do his part in seeking to be reconciled to God.
2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
beloved57
Well-known member
Do you believe in the saving death of Christ ? Meaning that His death effects Salvatiion for everyone He died for ?
beloved57
Well-known member
Do you believe in the saving death of Christ? Or do you believe that sinners Christ died for shall be lost in their sins? Simple yes or no please
Yes, I believe every sinner who receives new life from Christ does so because he sought the gift of eternal life in an acceptable manner and Christ gave him the gift. No, I do not believe that God is obligated to save every sinner in the world or any sinner who rejects Christ just because Christ died for his sins.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Hebrews 10:29
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
beloved57
Well-known member
You say yes, but how could you when you teach and believe that sinners Christ died for remain lost and ultimately die in their sins in unbelief.
beloved57
Well-known member
marke
Thats where you are dead wrong friend, God is obligated to save every sinner Christ died for because Christ died for them and fully satisfied Gods Law and Justice for them, He satisfied for them their rejection of Him, for thats what sinners do ! Hes obligated to save them for Christs Sake !
Thats where you are dead wrong friend, God is obligated to save every sinner Christ died for because Christ died for them and fully satisfied Gods Law and Justice for them, He satisfied for them their rejection of Him, for thats what sinners do ! Hes obligated to save them for Christs Sake !
You cannot prove God is obligated to save every sinner for whom Christ died. That may be what Calvin taught but that is not what the Bible teaches.
beloved57
Well-known member
Its been proven, He saves sinners for Christs sake. Salvation, forgiveness is for Christs sake Eph 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Its for Christs sake because He died for that purpose !
beloved57
Well-known member
Also Christ was obligated to die for the sins of the elect, all part of a Covenant arrangement before the foundation. Hebrews read Heb 2:17
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
That word behoved is the greek word opheiló and means:
: I owe, ought. to owe, be indebted, i.e. obliged to rectify a debt ("ought").pheílō ("owe") refers to being morally obligated (or legally required) to meet an obligation, i.e. to pay off a legitimate debt.
Christ was obligated to the Father to pay off the legal debt of sin that the elect incurred, and upon success, the Father is obligated to the Son to Justify those whom debt Christ paid. Thats why its states God is Just in forging sinners that believe in Jesus who died for them Rom 3:26
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
God is Just because He fulfills His obligation to His Son to Justify them He died for. If God doesnt Justify any sinner Christ died for, He is Unjust !
Of course Jesus died so that sinners might be saved.
John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Romans 10:1
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
1 Thessalonians 2:16
Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
beloved57
Well-known member
You still dont get it. God is obligated to save sinners Christ died for. The obligation is to Himself since Jesus is God. Hes obligated to His Justice to do what is right. Its right for God , its just for God to save each sinner Christ died for.
It would be wrong for God to forgive sinners of sins just because God wanted to do so but without there being justification for Him doing so. Jesus died on the cross so God could forgive sins, not to make God obligated to save every sinner in the world. Your doctrine is not taught in the Bible.
beloved57
Well-known member
It would be wrong for God, and unjust for God to not forgive any sinner Christ died for. It would be unjust for God to even impute sin to any sinner Christ died for, therefore its written Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Yes, everyone who has his sins forgiven is blessed. Nowhere in that passage are we told that if God reconciles the world to Himself then He must save everyone in the world.
beloved57
Well-known member
Sins are forgiven because Christ died for them, thats God justice done. He must forgive all for whom Christ died and never impute sin to their charge or He would be unjust to Christ and Himself.
Who are you to presume to tell God what He must do or must not do, or can do or cannot do? Did God tell you He must save everyone on earth if He provides Jesus as a pathway to forgiveness of sins to sinners?