The Sabbath
- Thread starter Jacob
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Matthew 5:17-20 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
marhig
Well-known member
I did read it, nothing says that Paul was rejected by the the apostles of Jesus at all, they were only afraid of him. Once they realised that he had been converted, they accepted him completely as Peter shows when he calls him his brother Paul.
Here's not only that verse but the next two also.
Acts 9 26-28
And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.
Ok, how have you got from that, that Paul was rejected by the apostles?
To love God —Deut. 6:5
Men must not wear women's clothing — Deut. 22:5
Not to have sexual relations with your daughter — Lev. 18:10
Not to eat worms found in fruit on the ground — Lev. 11:42
Which of these are too hard for you? Seriously! you can't keep these?
I have heard this argument many times and laugh as many of the 613 are redundant to the 10...simply clarifications of the 10 just as Yahushua amplified murder to not even having anger...but some people insist that His is a whole new law replacing the previous...On and on it goes...
Have you even read the 613? Some apply to women, some to a specific tribe, some to situations I will never be in...is my not keeping those a rebellion?
Do you eat maggots?
The 613 are a great start to civilizing anyone from slavery and illiteracy...
Rebellion is not failing to obey the law rebellion is failing to wish to keep it...
I keep a lot of the 613 without even thinking about it...
And if I fail at any that apply to me there is repentance restitution and forgiveness...
Of course when one is not kept all are broken...a foul is a foul and disrupts any game and should be called to preserve the game...and the player...
Break one break them all applies to the "new" ones too...ALL sin must be repented...even the "new" ones pointed out by the "new" laws...
Belief in Christ is not a period of time...nor does it replace time and its keeping...
He said 4:9 makes clear that Sabbath points to the good still to come...even after the cross...as He instructed we keep it even in times of trouble after His return to Heaven...
and by fulfillment you mean destruction of...being made obsolete...THINK NOT He instructed but here you are breaking the "new" commandments...Yahushua is the end meaning GOAL of the Law...
Your insistence that the old are obsolete no longer necessary to keep has me believing you do not love God, do wear women's clothes...oh my...and eat worms...
hey I am trying here ok? Give a brother some slack eh? lol
and to the non Israelites who wished to be saved from Egypt (sin) and be part of the people of Yah...
hmmmm...all the world sinned so now all the world can be saved...for God so loved the world...not just believers...just like "my house shall be a house of prayer for ALL nations" said Isaiah in the "OLD" testament...
What Yahushua was reminding the tribe was that it has always been for the goyim too...another reason why they hated Him
Well according to His own testimony it did keep them for awhile but failed to perfect them individually ...something the Law was not designed to do...it was designed however to point out sin and it still does that ...
and the Law was also designed to point to Him and His coming, mission, and fulfillment of that mission...and beyond when sin will be no more
To a time when there will be no need for law as we will not eat worms NATURALLY not because it is law...
What was that about rebellion?
According to the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, the Gospels were written anonymously.
From the Catholic Encyclopedia
The first four historical books of the New Testament are supplied with titles (Euangelion kata Matthaion, Euangelion kata Markon, etc.), which, however ancient, do not go back to the respective authors of those sacred writings. The Canon of Muratori, Clement of Alexandria, and St. Irenæus bear distinct witness to the existence of those headings in the latter part of the second century of our era. Indeed, the manner in which Clement (Stromata I.21), and St. Irenæus (Against Heresies III.11.7) employ them implies that, at that early date, our present titles to the Gospels had been in current use for some considerable time. Hence, it may be inferred that they were prefixed to the evangelical narratives as early as the first part of that same century. That, however, they do not go back to the first century of the Christian era, or at least that they are not original, is a position generally held at the present day. It is felt that since they are similar for the four Gospels, although the same Gospels were composed at some interval from each other, those titles were not framed, and consequently not prefixed to each individual narrative, before the collection of the four Gospels was actually made. Besides, as well pointed out by Prof. Bacon, "the historical books of the New Testament differ from its apocalyptic and epistolary literature, as those of the Old Testament differ from its prophecy, in being invariably anonymous, and for the same reason. Prophecies whether in the earlier or in the later sense, and letters, to have authority, must be referable to some individual; the greater his name, the better. But history was regarded as a common possession. Its facts spoke for themselves. Only as the springs of common recollection began to dwindle, and marked differences to appear between the well-informed and accurate Gospels and the untrustworthy . . . did it become worth while for the Christian teacher or apologist to specify whether the given representation of the current tradition was 'according to' this or that special compiler, and to state his qualifications". It thus appears that the present titles of the Gospels are not traceable to the Evangelists themselves.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06655b.htm
As one reads the Gospels it is apparent that there is no evidence that they are written by eye-witnesses.
TweetyBird
New member
Not true. The Mosaic Law requires an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Jesus said, that is not My Law. My Law is forgiving, 70 X 70.
You have listed 4, you are still missing 599. Read Ex 21 and Lev 24 and let us all know how you are keeping them. Then read Lev 23 and also show us how you are keeping all the feasts as God commanded.
I have read through them many times. What you are missing is that they were given to Israel as a whole nation, to be kept as a whole nation. There are no "situations" that have anything to do with the Mosaic Law Covenant. You are not computing what the Mosaic Law was, who is was for, and how it was to be kept.
No they are not. Surely you do not think that nailing your slave's ear to the door post is civilized? And that buying and selling slaves is not reprehensible?
Nope. I do not understand where this lame attitude comes from, but God was very serious about all the commandments He gave to Israel. If they did not obey every letter of the Law, they would incur curses. And that is exactly what happened.
Deut 29
9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.
Deut 30
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 in that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 that thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
If you fail at one, it is as if you have failed them all. It's called sin, under the old covenant.
Nope. According to the /Covenant Law of Moses, only the atoning blood of animals could give forgiveness.
The New Covenant is not like the old. Jesus died once and for all. He does not need to be crucified every time we sin. We are the righteousness of God in Christ and therefore, our sins are forgiven.
By the way, repentance was not required in the Mosaic Law. In fact, according to Ex, Num, and Deut, the only one who repented was God Himself.
He said, another day. That day is TODAY >>> do not harden your hearts, but believe. Who do we believe in for perfect rest? Jesus Christ - He is that "another day". Perfect Rest, eternally.
There is no place in the NT that Jesus commands us to keep the Sabbath for hard times ... LOL
TweetyBird
New member
New Covenant, means the Old Covenant has passes away. They are different covenants and cannot be blended into each other. Either you sacifice animals for sin under the old covenant, or you sins are forgiven in the blood of Chris in the New Covenant.
What is "yahushua". Read Lew White, much?
Loving God is believing that He gave His Only Begotten Son for the forgiveness of sins.
You may think its funny - which goes to show your complete ignorance of the old covenant Law. The requirement was that it ALL, every single commandment be kept by the entire nation of Israel or they would be cursed. How do you measure up? Epic Fail.
No it does not. It does not tell you that lust = adultery. It does not tell you that Hatred for others = murder. It does not tell you to believe on Jesus Christ - denial of Him is the ultimate sin. It does not tell you to walk in the Spirit. It does not tell you that without faith, you are sinner. It does not tell you to be willing to lay down your life for others, even unbelievers. It does not tell you to forgive 70 X 70. ETC.
It was a SHADOW - darkness. If it was all so clear, then why did Israel reject their Messiah? Why is there still a veil over their eyes when they read the Law of Moses? The Law and Prophets were until John. Then the Kingdom of Heaven/God was preached, not the Mosaic Law.
A lot of people eat worms. They are not going to hell.
TweetyBird
New member
That is your excuse?
Was Jesus Required to Fulfill Deuteronomy 17?
Was Jesus Required to Fulfill Deuteronomy 17?
Deuteronomy 17:18-20King James Version (KJV)
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.
If Jesus fulfilled the above Scripture doesn't it mean that Jesus is still under the Law?
Was Jesus Required to Fulfill Deuteronomy 17?
Deuteronomy 17:18-20King James Version (KJV)
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.
If Jesus fulfilled the above Scripture doesn't it mean that Jesus is still under the Law?
Not so much under the Law but standing on...just like the seat of mercy stood above the Law in the tabernacle...
In fact Sabbath continues to give Him His Lordship...
of course He keeps the Law and memorializes the events...even Isaiah knew we all would Sabbath to Sabbath...
TweetyBird
New member
Deut 17:18 is about earthly kings of Israel. Jesus is not an earthly King. He does not need to be reminded of the Mosaic Law so that His heart is not lifted up above others, etc. His days are prolonged - He is eternal, forever, without ceasing, the beginning and the end, the Ancient of Days.
TweetyBird
New member
LOL ... does that mean after 490 times it's ok to retaliate?
TweetyBird
New member
Jesus is above the Law - on that point you are entirely correct.
Jesus was Lord before the Sabbath was given. His Lordship is not dependent on the Sabbath. There are no memorials for keeping the Law in the future. None, zip, zero. Isaiah says nothing about the Sabbath being a memorial.
If you don't bring animals to sacrifice and bring the other offerings, you are not keeping the Sabbath.
Blended?...each covenant was built on the next...certainly one does not anull the previous. Or do you mean to say that the covenants to Adam, Noah, Abraham etc are no longer binding?
Besides covenants are more than their laws and terms...just like a new contract can be written the with the same intent the terms and conditions remain but with a new singer...(new administrators of the same Law)...but the Law within the covenant remained immutable...
What pray tell did Israel do in exile between the temples?...what does it do since?
It remains as it was before...Sacrifice of lips...as it was always rather mercy than sacrifice...it was never about the actual blood you ascribe power to idolatrously but obedience leading to mercy...
who?
Just wish to give proper credit to the Authors of my faith and salvation.
Yes in keeping with the Law...still pointing out sin...
epic salvation provided...
these are the goal of the old and in no way anull them...love Yah and your neighbor as yourself is the OT...
You still have a veil as Paul wrote it IS a shadow of good things to come...and of course it was until John as it goes beyond until ALL is fulfilled...preached every Sabbath as James taught and it still brings the rest keeping people of Yah to their kingdom...
Really? Even if Moses saw you eating worms in the desert he would not condemn you to hell...maybe to no afterlife of joy in the promised land but certainly not eternal burning for being hungry...
And those eating worms today are believers living AS He did are they?
No it means you are sloppy and in error...desperate to the point of exageration to insert something there that is not...
TweetyBird
New member
The Old Covenant/Mosaic Law is not blended into the New Covenant. God said He would give a NEW [fresh, never seen before, brand new covenant] NOT LIKE He gave at Mt Sinai.
The Old Covenant is NOT the covenant with Noah and has nothing to do with the Mosaic Law Covenant or the New Covenant.
You can't write the Mosaic Law Covenant on your heart. It was ratified in the blood of animals.
They were in exile because they were being punished for not keep the Law as God commanded.
The blood of animals sacrificed for sin, atoned for sin and gave forgiveness as God said. I quoted the verses. Did He lie to Israel?
Lew White is the one who promoted "yahushua" as the name of our Savior. And if you don't use it, but use Jesus, you are not saved. 'yahushua" is not the Hebrew name of our Savior. It is made up construction that means nothing and has no definition. Yeshua/Jesus are defined as "God is Salvation" or "God saves".
"yahushua" is not the author of your faith and salvation.
The sacrifice for sin in the Mosaic Law Covenant was the shed blood of animals. Jesus had not yet been crucified for sin.
The only "salvation" that the Law provided was obedience to the whole Mosaic Law - every jot and tittle.
For Israel only, not for us. Jesus gave us a new commandment which included all mankind. Israel was only commanded to love her own.
The Mosaic Law can bring no one into the Kingdom of Heaven/God.
If one is not burning in hell, then they are with the Lord for all eternity. There is no in-between place.
"for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."