The Sabbath

[clefty]

The Mosaic Law requires an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

http://www.aish.com/atr/Eye-for-an-Eye.html

Again wishing to insert something that was not there...

 

[clefty]

I have read through them many times. What you are missing is that they were given to Israel as a whole nation, to be kept as a whole nation. There are no "situations" that have anything to do with the Mosaic Law Covenant. You are not computing what the Mosaic Law was, who is was for, and how it was to be kept.

Given to all assembled at mt. Sinai...including Israel...

The covenant was for all...but some laws were for woman...some were for particular tribes...

Again you are sloppy

 

[clefty]

If you fail at one, it is as if you have failed them all. It's called sin, under the old covenant.

And what is stealing called in the new?

You really need something to be there that is not there...

 

[clefty]

Nope. According to the /Covenant Law of Moses, only the atoning blood of animals could give forgiveness.

The blood now gives forgiveness? Ascribing power to inanimate object is idolatry...

Because faith and obedience was demonstrated by the works of shedding of blood...the One Who forgives sees this demonstration and forgave through His holy priests...the blood just splattered about...

The sacrificial laws were actually grace and mercy by which sinners who wished to demonstrate their faith and obedience could do exactly that which the One they loved wanted...exactly what He was pleased with...

through the sacrificial system the remorseful ones could demonstrate their continued love and restore their relationship to Him...and testify their love for each other and affirm themselves...such grace and mercy...

 

[clefty]

New Covenant is not like the old. Jesus died once and for all. He does not need to be crucified every time we sin. We are the righteousness of God in Christ and therefore, our sins are forgiven.

By the way, repentance was not required in the Mosaic Law. In fact, according to Ex, Num, and Deut, the only one who repented was God Himself.

Lol...neither did they kill the same animal every time they sinned...but now that the most pleasing sacrifice was offered...the debt is finally paid...no more need of blood...but His calendar remains and can be celebrated still...

What no repentance? LOL every time an animal was killed it demonstrated the desire to "turn back" to "restore"


Love compels obedience and when anyone realizes their error they naturally wish to repent...

What do you think Torah was but to LOVE Him...and others as yourself

 

[clefty]

There is no place in the NT that Jesus commands us to keep the Sabbath for hard times ... LOL

Again sloppy...trying to add to the Word...or is it subtract from It?

Matthew 24:20 But pray that your flight might not be in winter, nor on a Sabbath.

Now read that slowly and realize that Sabbath was intended to be kept even after His death resurrection and return to Heaven...

It is NOT a command to keep the Sabbath for hard times...but because there will be hard times pray you can keep the Sabbath anyway...

 

[clefty]

Jesus was Lord before the Sabbath was given. His Lordship is not dependent on the Sabbath. There are no memorials for keeping the Law in the future. None, zip, zero. Isaiah says nothing about the Sabbath being a memorial.

Lord before sabbath? Lord of what? What was there to Lord? Darkness? Then He would have said He was the Lord of Darkness...

But He didn't He called Himself Lord of the Sabbath...showing also He was Creator God authority of all...

 

[clefty]

The Old Covenant/Mosaic Law is not blended into the New Covenant. God said He would give a NEW [fresh, never seen before, brand new covenant] NOT LIKE He gave at Mt Sinai.

but using the same laws right? Or are we allowed to kill steal fornicate...

BTW Love God and your neighbor as yourself was in the OT...not really new

The Old Covenant is NOT the covenant with Noah and has nothing to do with the Mosaic Law Covenant or the New Covenant.

Lol..."the old covenant...has nothing to do with the Mosiac Law Covenant?"

Again sloppy...

Never said the old covenant was with Noah...

But what were the laws of that covenant? What were the terms and conditions of that contract with Noah? Are they annulled by a new covenant with Abraham?

You can't write the Mosaic Law Covenant on your heart. It was ratified in the blood of animals.

Maybe you can't...

Deuteronomy 30:14, "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."
Isaiah 51:7, "Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law"
Psalms 40:8, "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart."
Psalms 37:31, "The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide."
Proverbs 3:1, "My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:"

They were in exile because they were being punished for not keep the Law as God commanded.

And we won't obtain salvation by the very same method...disobedience...

But what did they do without their temple? What about the animal sacrifices? Were they no longer part of Israel? Were they allowed to murder steal eat pork...? Hardly

The blood of animals sacrificed for sin, atoned for sin and gave forgiveness as God said. I quoted the verses. Did He lie to Israel?

Again the blood just splattered it was the act of faith repentance obedience that the One Who takes away the sin of the world witnessed and thus forgave them through the priests...

Lew White is the one who promoted "yahushua" as the name of our Savior. And if you don't use it, but use Jesus, you are not saved.

well that is silly...and I am not claiming the name is salvific...yet...but
it ain't Jesus

'yahushua" is not the Hebrew name of our Savior. It is made up construction that means nothing and has no definition. Yeshua/Jesus are defined as "God is Salvation" or "God saves".

Yeshua indicates you get it...the name game...I am at

http://www.eliyah.com/yahushua.html

"Yahushua" is not the author of your faith and salvation.

I have heard sports announcers attempt to pay more respect and homage to a player's ethnic culture history and language than believers pay to the founder of christianity...and my Savior...

The sacrifice for sin in the Mosaic Law Covenant was the shed blood of animals. Jesus had not yet been crucified for sin.

Yup...is why a new Signer to a new contract was needed...but the same Laws remained demanding the same method of signing...that of blood or else no blood was needed...

The irony of the christening to that covenant was a toast to a room full of Jews...not a goy among them...

The only "salvation" that the Law provided was obedience to the whole Mosaic Law - every jot and tittle.

Ummm no...shedding blood was because they realized they had not kept all the jots and tittles...

For Israel only, not for us. Jesus gave us a new commandment which included all mankind. Israel was only commanded to love her own.

Lol...the Law points out sin...so only Israel sinned?

The fourth commandment specifically states sabbath was for the goyim and even the animals...

The Mosaic Law can bring no one into the Kingdom of Heaven/God.

Just like a sign on the road you are on saying "New York 120 miles" can't get you there...duh

If one is not burning in hell, then they are with the Lord for all eternity. There is no in-between place.

my point is that the Mosiac Law did not come with what later authors developed into hell...

Jews have a different view of the afterlife...

If you need a god to punish 75 years of desperate sin and deception for millions and billions and trillions of years...feel free

"for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."

A Holy Ghost that leads one to live and love AS He did...fulfilling the OT laws...and with Him destroying the curse of the Law AS He did...

Leads to rest too...as Isaiah prophecied

For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me," declares the LORD, "So your offspring and your name will endure. 23"And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD.

And as John saw those who kept the commandments of God...not Jesus...but His testimony

 

[Ben Masada]

I did read it, nothing says that Paul was rejected by the the apostles of Jesus at all, they were only afraid of him. Once they realised that he had been converted, they accepted him completely as Peter shows when he calls him his brother Paul.

Here's not only that verse but the next two also.

Acts 9 26-28

And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.

Ok, how have you got from that, that Paul was rejected by the apostles?

The Apostles of Jesus did not approve his application to join the Sect based on the fact that he had been a persecutor of the Nazarenes. So, they said that he could not be a disciple. But Paul did not apply to be a disciple but an apostle. And where did the term "disciple" come from? It is only obvious that they did not find any thing in him worthy the position of a disciple, let alone an Apostle. So, he was let loose in Jerusalem and he caused a havoc in Jerusalem preaching his own gospel that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God and that he had resurrected. (Acts 9:20; II Timothy 2:8) And he confessed that it was all according to his gospel. It means that there was another gospel being preached around aka the gospel of the Nazarenes in whose agenda those things preached by him about Jesus were not in the agenda of the gospel of the Apostles.

 

[clefty]

Surely you do not think that nailing your slave's ear to the door post is civilized? And that buying and selling slaves is not reprehensible?

Deut.15-

"then take an awl and push it through his earlobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life."

Does sound extreme unless you read the verse before

"But if your servant says to you, "I do not want to leave you," because he loves you and your family and is well off with you,"


We are, after all, slaves to Christ so we choose to be prepared to shed a little of our own blood for Him, as He bought us...

We might shed a lot as martyrs before have...in those times of trouble pray you can still keep the Sabbath...

Meanwhile please be less sloppy and I hope and pray you come to love the Law as I do...it points me to my saving Master...to do AS He did...

 

[TweetyBird]

No it means you are sloppy and in error...desperate to the point of exageration to insert something there that is not...

70 x 70 is just as much of an exaggeration as 70 x 7. Jesus meant that we don't stop forgiving. Do you agree with that?

 

[TweetyBird]

http://www.aish.com/atr/Eye-for-an-Eye.html

Again wishing to insert something that was not there...

Quoting from a Talmudic source is not helping your case. The Talmud considers itself superior to the Mosaic Law.

Let's look at the actual text:

The Law of Moses:

Deut 19
21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Ex 21
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Lev 24
17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death. 18 And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast. 19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; 20 breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again. 21 And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death. 22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.


The Law of Jesus Christ:

Matt 5
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.


Matt 18
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

[TweetyBird]

Deut.15-

"then take an awl and push it through his earlobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life."

Does sound extreme unless you read the verse before

"But if your servant says to you, "I do not want to leave you," because he loves you and your family and is well off with you,"


We are, after all, slaves to Christ so we choose to be prepared to shed a little of our own blood for Him, as He bought us...

We might shed a lot as martyrs before have...in those times of trouble pray you can still keep the Sabbath...

Meanwhile please be less sloppy and I hope and pray you come to love the Law as I do...it points me to my saving Master...to do AS He did...

Does this mean you are willing to nail your slave's ear to the door post and think it is humane/civilized? Do you think, compared to what Jesus taught, that we are supposed to be treating people in that manner? After all, He taught against eye for eye. He did not command the adulterous woman be stoned either. That make two things Jesus taught against the Mosaic Law. Are you going to keep saying He kept it, still?

 

[clefty]

70 x 70 is just as much of an exaggeration as 70 x 7. Jesus meant that we don't stop forgiving. Do you agree with that?

Sure...He was teaching the secret things, the Spirit of the Law...that was new to the people...they were not taught that by the Pharisees etc...He was the goal of the law...to make us holy and pure ready to return to His Father...now only through Him is that finally possible

To think He re-opened the promise to goyim was scandal enough...but now He taught against the traditions they had worked so hard to estsblish...the letter of the Law...

Forgiveness? Grace? Yes the people had forgotten much...were deceived

 

[TweetyBird]

Again sloppy...trying to add to the Word...or is it subtract from It?

Matthew 24:20 But pray that your flight might not be in winter, nor on a Sabbath.

Now read that slowly and realize that Sabbath was intended to be kept even after His death resurrection and return to Heaven...

It is NOT a command to keep the Sabbath for hard times...but because there will be hard times pray you can keep the Sabbath anyway...

The context is the destruction of Jerusalem. Apparently, being in one's house on the Sabbath and destruction come, they would have no warning of impending doom in order to escape and would instead, die.

 

[TweetyBird]

Sure...He was teaching the secret things, the Spirit of the Law...that was new to the people...they were not taught that by the Pharisees etc...He was the goal of the law...to make us holy and pure ready to return to His Father...now only through Him is that finally possible

To think He re-opened the promise to goyim was scandal enough...but now He taught against the traditions they had worked so hard to estsblish...the letter of the Law...

Forgiveness? Grace? Yes the people had forgotten much...were deceived

There was no forgiveness and grace in the Mosaic Law. People died for committing sins against others. There was no forgiveness or grace, but retaliation. God told Israel that if they did not keep the letter of the Law, they would be cursed. And that is exactly what happened, time and again.

 

[TweetyBird]

Sure...He was teaching the secret things, the Spirit of the Law...that was new to the people...they were not taught that by the Pharisees etc...He was the goal of the law...to make us holy and pure ready to return to His Father...now only through Him is that finally possible

There were no secrets in the Law of Moses. God said they were to keep them as written and no one was to add or subtract from it.

The Spirit of the Law is not "the secret things". I don't know where you get that from. You cannot get to God through the Mosaic Law.

 

[clefty]

The context is the destruction of Jerusalem. Apparently, being in one's house on the Sabbath and destruction come, they would have no warning of impending doom in order to escape and would instead, die.

LOL you twist anything don't you?


It is all of Judea not just Jerusalem...

It says "then let those of Judea", not just Jerusalem, flee to the mountains...

adding to the Word and sloppily...

I notice you haven't responded to the writings I posted by learned men, fancy speaking scholars and doctorates of their insistence that Sunday keeping was outside the scripture and by the Church's tradition...

And yet here you are trying to insert and add something that is not there...

Or maybe you could have convinced them...

 

[clefty]

Quoting from a Talmudic source is not helping your case.

sure it does...going to the source we can better understand how and why the Torah was taught or not...applied or not...and how and why the people were so deceived and amazed by His teaching

The Talmud considers itself superior to the Mosaic Law.

and here you are making similar assertions about another body additional texts...time to study not censure...test all things

Let's look at the actual text:

The Law of Moses:

Deut 19
21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Ex 21
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Lev 24
17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death. 18 And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast. 19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; 20 breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again. 21 And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death. 22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.


The Law of Jesus Christ:

Matt 5
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.


Matt 18
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

good stuff there that is...we can begin to see what was taught and what was not by the Pharisees and scribes and liars whose father was the devil...

 

[clefty]

Does this mean you are willing to nail your slave's ear to the door post and think it is humane/civilized? Do you think, compared to what Jesus taught, that we are supposed to be treating people in that manner? After all, He taught against eye for eye. He did not command the adulterous woman be stoned either. That make two things Jesus taught against the Mosaic Law. Are you going to keep saying He kept it, still?

No He didn't command the adulterous woman be stoned He taught rather mercy than sacrifice...

A profound concept that the people were unaware of apparently...

No wonder He was hated by the leaders as to what the Law was really all about...

They just dragged some woman outside of court and not according to due process of the Law and were immediately reminded that they were not pure enough to apply the law shed the blood...

And yes I am going to say He was keeping the Law still...and insisted our righteousness be beyond that of those that relied on works alone...

Of course He kept it...He was to be the perfect unblemished Lamb the Law demanded...