The Sabbath commandment is one of the Ten Commandments.

[Clete]

We are commanded in the Law, the Torah, and throughout the Bible, even by Jesus Himself, to love God and love our neighbor.

I do accept all of the Bible. I have since I was a child. Galatians shows that you do not receive the Spirit by the works of the Law. You also are not perfected by the flesh. Nowhere does it say that we are not to obey God.

As for accepting circumcision, this is more than being circumcised, and Paul had Timothy circumcised. It is more than observing all of Torah. It is legalism. A person can get circumcised and observe all of Torah if they want to. But accepting circumcision in the sense of think you will be saved by so doing, or that salvation is by works, is wrong and wrong headed. It is not the same as the gospel we know and love. That Jesus died for the forgiveness of your sins. The question is if you are a Gentile grafted in, if you are of the house of Israel and the house of Judah and the new covenant or if you can be saved other than being a part of the new covenant, or if you are a convert and of Israel. If you have God's law written on your heart and mind I don't think it is so difficult to observe it. Is it the Law of Moses? Some say no. But what is God's law spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB? Is there another option other than the Law of Moses, God's law. The Mosaic law. The Torah. The Ten Commandments and what God had Moses write? Some say that there is a moral law. If you observe God's law, even if it is the law of Christ, I don't think you will teach people to not obey God's commands. You can explain, however, that salvation is not through law-keeping.

Were you freed from sin to obey God? Yes. If you are saved. Does this mean that you are to engage in legalism or get circumcised? Not necessarily. But observing God's Law is not wrong.

Jacob, saying it doesn't make it so. I have SHOWN you that you are wrong and what you've posted here is just a repetition of your error, not a response to what I've presented in refutation of it.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, saying it doesn't make it so. I have SHOWN you that you are wrong and what you've posted here is just a repetition of your error, not a response to what I've presented in refutation of it.

Clete, whether you are of Israel or not you need to obey God. Whether or not you observe the old covenant, you must learn if you observe the new covenant which was for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Is God's law written on your heart and your mind? Do you consider yourself of Israel whether you are circumcised or not, whether you observe the Ten Commandments or not, whether or not you are a part of the church the body of Christ? The essentials are for you in Acts 15 if you have come to know the God of the Jews as a Gentile, and or in Jesus Christ God's Son who died for you that your sins would be forgiven. Have you repented of your sins? Do you know if you have been forgiven? Do you obey God or have you chosen not to? Do you observe some of God's commands? If not circumcision you do not observe all, but remember the essentials in Acts 15. You may observe God's commands and be saved apart from circumcision. Are you of Israel if you are not circumcised? Are you saved? You can be saved and not be circumcised and not be of Israel. Some believe the uncircumcised who are believers are of Israel, but according to God's word you cannot observe Passover if you are not circumcised.

 

[Ben Masada]

You can observe the Ten Commandments without having ever heard of circumcision. But this was a commandment given to the nation of Israel.

...and to every one else who decides to join God's Covenant with His People Israel. (Isaiah 56:1-8)

 

[Jacob]

...and to every one else who decides to join God's Covenant with His People Israel. (Isaiah 56:1-8)

True. I believe a Gentile can be saved. But I am a Jew and a Christian, having been a Christian first. Being of Israel I simply want to know if I am of Levi, whereas one who is of Levi would know. But if I am not then it may be that I don't have a tribe.

There is one God, the God of Israel and the Jews, whether in the land or not. And we should all be obeying His commands.

To be of Israel it is my contention that a person must be circumcised. To observe the Sabbath, I don't know. The Ten Commandments are Jewish, but they can be for everyone.

 

[Ben Masada]

Observing the Sabbath is resting on the seventh day of the week. The Sabbath is a day of rest. As God rested on the seventh day, so should we each week.

God did not literally rest on the 7th Day. That's an embellishment of the commandment by relating it to God. God is not like a man to need rest.

This is as a Jew. Gentiles can convert or join God's covenant people, in covenant with God according to the covenant God made with the nation of Israel through the prophet Moses at Mount Sinai. I am a convert or a proselyte. Of Israel, of the United States of America, and a Christian. I study Torah, the TaNaKh, the Old Testament,the New Covenant or the Apostle's Writings, the whole Bible. I was a Christian before converting to Judaism and I still am. Is this a righteous proselyte? There has been sin in my life, but as a Christian I already accepted the truth of the whole Bible before studying Torah, the first five books of the Bible,even the Hebrew Bible or the Christian Bible. As a Christian there were still sin issues, that should not have been. As a Jew, there is the Torah and God's commands without wondering about sin, the definition of sin, or what sin is. God's Law tells us what sin is. This is why the Bible says that sin is transgression of the law. We are not to live in sin, but to live righteous lives.

Sorry Jacob, but you are either a Jew or a Christian. There is no such a thing as a Jewish-Christian or a Christian-Jew. At his time, Prophet Elijah had to struggle with the "Jews-for-Baal" who insisted with holding the Jewish identity while practicing the religion of Baal. Elijah said they were straddling the issue between God and Baal.(I kings 18:21) The bottom line is that Elijah ended up by executing 450 prophets of Baal and 400 prophets of Asherah.(I Kings 18:19)The lesson to derive from that today is that we are straddling the issue between Judaism and Christianity. Elijah would turn in the grave if the dead could know what is going on today, especially with "Jews-for-Jesus."

The new covenant was to be with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,

"Was to be" is wrong. It was, period with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. (Jeremiah 31:31)

and it came in Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus the Christ. It is not like the old which the people broke. It is God's law written on hearts and minds. This is either the Law of Moses or something else.

It did not come in Jesus time. The New Covenant in other words, was the Jewish New World Order for the establishment of the Second Jewish Commonwealth at the time of Ezra.

But I observe Torah, the Law of Moses, though as a convert or a proselyte and therefore of Israel and practicing Judaism, whether of the tribe of Levi, and we have or there are the Ten Commandments and even the 613 commands of Torah and the 1050 commands of the New Testament, all to be observed or which we are to observe or we are observing or we observe. There are others throughout the Prophets and the Writings. I have never been to Israel.

Whenever you decide to make Aliyah, try to say the truth that you are both Jewish and Christian and they will never approve your application. I am telling you this for a fact. Could it be reminiscences from the time of Elijah? We never know.

 

[clefty]

If a person says all they have to do is love God and love their neighbor, yes they are right. But some might exclude other commands in the Bible, when they shouldn't because the Bible reveals that all of the commands in the Bible are about love of God and neighbor.

Do we love our neighbors as pagans do?

Or does our love mirror His...in every way?

I say it should...thus our love includes a Sabbath rest just like His does...

 

[Jacob]

Ben Masada,

I am not with Jews for Jesus. I am also against Baal worship. In Judaism we find the expectation of a coming Messiah, Yeshua. And we have God's commands, God's commands for Israel His people, His people, and the whole world. The word Christian identifies a person with Yeshua as the Messiah, which as a Jew now I still believe. There is one God, the God of Israel and the Jews, the Creator, who is also the God of the Gentiles. I am glad to call myself a Jew and among Israel.

Levi is a tribe of priests. Also, there is Levi and the tribes of Israel. Is Levi a tribe? Am I of Levi? Being of Israel as a proselyte and a convert I must be of a tribe, as I understand it.

 

[Jacob]

Do we love our neighbors as pagans do?

Or does our love mirror His...in every way?

I say it should...thus our love includes a Sabbath rest just like His does...

Do you neglect the commands of God for your doctrine? I realize you are making a doctrine from what you read, or you have accepted one, that originated in Hebrews 4.

Love your neighbor. Paganism has nothing to do with this. You are mixing paganism with God's commands.

 

[jamie]

The Law of Moses or the Mosaic Law is not man's law, it is God's.

And as God's law it was God's prerogative to end the Mosaic law by destroying the Temple and dispersing the priesthood. What remains today is a false religion.

The firstborn son of the Father has been converted into the kingdom of God.

Judaism rejects Jesus as being the Christ and Jesus rejects Judaism as a valid religion.

Now circumcision of the flesh is meaningless. Jesus said the flesh profits nothing.

You, Jacob, are simply caught up in a false religion.

 

[Jacob]

And as God's law it was God's prerogative to end the Mosaic law by destroying the Temple and dispersing the priesthood. What remains today is a false religion.

The firstborn son of the Father has been converted into the kingdom of God.

Judaism rejects Jesus as being the Christ and Jesus rejects Judaism as a valid religion.

Now circumcision of the flesh is meaningless. Jesus said the flesh profits nothing.

You, Jacob, are simply caught up in a false religion.

You are combining ideas and rejecting Judaism and Jesus. Jesus observed and taught the Law. Christianity is not a false religion. Christianity is just a way of saying God's word is true, that Judaism and Israel's Messiah has come, and that Gentiles can become believers and be saved as well as Jews. Salvation is not by the Law, and a Gentiles can be saved without circumcision. A Jew was never saved by circumcision. Such with the whole or entire Law. But are you of Israel, the church, the body of Christ? Are you saved, born again, forgiven? Have you repented of your sin and trusted God and Jesus in faith? Do you obey God's commands?

Shalom.

 

[jamie]

Jesus observed and taught the Law.

Jesus had no choice. A better covenant was not valid until the death of the testator (Jesus).

Judaism today is simply a synagogue of Satan according to Jesus.

Why not believe him and move on to the NT that is now valid.

A different temple and a different priesthood.

 

[Clete]

Clete, whether you are of Israel or not you need to obey God. Whether or not you observe the old covenant, you must learn if you observe the new covenant which was for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Is God's law written on your heart and your mind? Do you consider yourself of Israel whether you are circumcised or not, whether you observe the Ten Commandments or not, whether or not you are a part of the church the body of Christ? The essentials are for you in Acts 15 if you have come to know the God of the Jews as a Gentile, and or in Jesus Christ God's Son who died for you that your sins would be forgiven. Have you repented of your sins? Do you know if you have been forgiven? Do you obey God or have you chosen not to? Do you observe some of God's commands? If not circumcision you do not observe all, but remember the essentials in Acts 15. You may observe God's commands and be saved apart from circumcision. Are you of Israel if you are not circumcised? Are you saved? You can be saved and not be circumcised and not be of Israel. Some believe the uncircumcised who are believers are of Israel, but according to God's word you cannot observe Passover if you are not circumcised.

Yes, that's right, go on pretending like I haven't argued all of this into the ground.

Repeating yourself! That's the new theological trump card that defeats all arguments against one's chosen religion.

 

[Ben Masada]

Ben Masada,

I am not with Jews for Jesus. I am also against Baal worship. In Judaism we find the expectation of a coming Messiah, Yeshua. And we have God's commands, God's commands for Israel His people, His people, and the whole world. The word Christian identifies a person with Yeshua as the Messiah, which as a Jew now I still believe. There is one God, the God of Israel and the Jews, the Creator, who is also the God of the Gentiles. I am glad to call myself a Jew and among Israel.

Levi is a tribe of priests. Also, there is Levi and the tribes of Israel. Is Levi a tribe? Am I of Levi? Being of Israel as a proselyte and a convert I must be of a tribe, as I understand it.

There is no expectation in Judaism for Jesus to come as the Messiah. Bring this view to any other Jew and the answer will be "no comment!"

The word Christian identifies a person with the church of Paul if you read Acts 11:26. It was because of Paul that the name "Christians" first came about.

But among Christians you are a Christian right? Sorry to remind you, you are straddling the issue; like it or not.

We are happy to welcome converts with love but, a convert is a Jew without Tribe in Israel. But don't worry, Jesus too was a Jew because of Mary but without a Tribe in Israel because of Mat. 1:18 which exonerates him as of being a biological son of Joseph. However, I do believe he was a biological son of Joseph. Therefore, from the Tribe of Judah; but still not the Messiah because the Messiah cannot be an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) Then, there is Prophet Habakkuk who wrote: "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel, the Son of God if you read Exodus 4:22,23.

 

[Jacob]

Jesus had no choice. A better covenant was not valid until the death of the testator (Jesus).

Judaism today is simple a synagogue of Satan according to Jesus.

Why not believe him and move on to the NT that is now valid.

A different temple and a different priesthood.

Don't say anything against what the Bible says. The first and second temple were according to God's word. There may be a third temple, also according to the Bible. Some say there will never be a Jewish temple again. I know that Jesus died once for all. For all people? He doesn't need to die again. You can be forgiven your sins when you repent and trust in Him for your salvation. Put your faith in God and in Jesus, God's Son.

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. He came to fulfill.

The temple (the second temple) was there until AD 70. It was destroyed, as with the first (the first temple was destroyed earlier by the Babylonians, but the temple was rebuilt (or another temple was built) after the Babylonian captivity).

Aside from anything we have outside of the Bible, study the temple in Ezekiel. It has not yet come to be. Some say that since the Jewish people rejected God it was not built and never will be. Others consider this to be legitimate prophecy.

In the New Testament you can learn about Yeshua, whose body was a temple, that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit if you are saved and the Spirit of God dwells in you. And that we are all together as the body of Christ being fitted together.

Ephesians 2:21 NASB - in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,

I don't know if what you are saying about a testator is true. You seem to think Christianity is a new religion. You are also wrong about Judaism being a synagogue of Satan. You are simply against the truth, rebelling against the truth, unaware of the truth, lying against the truth, misinformed about the truth, speaking against the truth, or aware of some truth and throwing out Judaism because of it. If ever a person in Judaism or outside of Judaism rejects the truth it is wrong to do so. This is for all people. But Judaism is true. Christianity is true. Nothing else, in terms of religion, is. Believe the Bible. Repent and be saved. And obey God.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, that's right, go on pretending like I haven't argued all of this into the ground.

Repeating yourself! That's the new theological trump card that defeats all arguments against one's chosen religion.

I don't know where you are coming up with this from, but I don't speak like you. Believe the Bible. Don't accuse someone who is watching over your soul of repeating themself. I only say this because you are rejecting the truth, and you are in the wrong, and you are resorting to rhetoric to try to defeat me or push me away. I have presented the truth of the Bible to you. It is up to you whether or not you accept it. Otherwise I can do nothing for you.

You ought not to speak of Judaism or one's identity in or with Israel and a chosen religion. You put Judaism among false religions as a Christian, which is wrong for you to do.

 

[Jacob]

There is no expectation in Judaism for Jesus to come as the Messiah. Bring this view to any other Jew and the answer will be "no comment!"

The word Christian identifies a person with the church of Paul if you read Acts 11:26. It was because of Paul that the name "Christians" first came about.

But among Christians you are a Christian right? Sorry to remind you, you are straddling the issue; like it or not.

We are happy to welcome converts with love but, a convert is a Jew without Tribe in Israel. But don't worry, Jesus too was a Jew because of Mary but without a Tribe in Israel because of Mat. 1:18 which exonerates him as of being a biological son of Joseph. However, I do believe he was a biological son of Joseph. Therefore, from the Tribe of Judah; but still not the Messiah because the Messiah cannot be an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) Then, there is Prophet Habakkuk who wrote: "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel, the Son of God if you read Exodus 4:22,23.

I am a Jew and a Christian among both Jews and Christians.

You are incorrect that a Jew who is a convert cannot have a tribe.

Paul was in Antioch when Jews, believers, or the early church were first called Christians. This is because Yeshua is the Messiah only. Were they Gentiles? Not Paul! Were they called Christians by outsiders or the Jewish religious establishment? Did they call themselves Christians? Remember, the way which is called a sect, or the followers of the way which is called a sect? The early church was entirely Jewish.

The Messiah was supposed to die. It is taught amongst Christians that the Jews did not expect that Messiah would die. But this is false. Maybe some of them didn't? Those who didn't know the scriptures (I hardly believe this, but maybe). Read the Messianic prophecies and you will see that what I am saying is true.

 

[Jacob]

We are happy to welcome converts with love but, a convert is a Jew without Tribe in Israel.

My parents have said that they and I are not Jews. But I am a convert. I may be of Levi. But you may need to answer how many generations until a person is a Jew or has a tribe? From Torah I don't see that there would need to be any from me. You said you welcome converts which is good. I am even a righteous proselyte, but you may not have already known this. No straddling the fence here Ben Masada. I am not straddling the fence. I have told you that I am a Jew as a convert. I accept all of Torah. Christians should too. But not everyone is of Israel. Some accept it to learn from but not to live by.

 

[Ben Masada]

I am a Jew and a Christian among both Jews and Christians.

You are incorrect that a Jew who is a convert cannot have a tribe.

Paul was in Antioch when Jews, believers, or the early church were first called Christians. This is because Yeshua is the Messiah only. Were they Gentiles? Not Paul! Were they called Christians by outsiders or the Jewish religious establishment? Did they call themselves Christians? Remember, the way which is called a sect, or the followers of the way which is called a sect? The early church was entirely Jewish.

The Messiah was supposed to die. It is taught amongst Christians that the Jews did not expect that Messiah would die. But this is false. Maybe some of them didn't? Those who didn't know the scriptures (I hardly believe this, but maybe). Read the Messianic prophecies and you will see that what I am saying is true.

Paul lost his Jewish identity from the day he decided to found an anti-Jewish religion aka Christianity. Jacob, to claim conversion to Judaism, you must leave Christianity behind. You can't carry it with you. Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

The New Way was the Sect of the Nazarenes organized by the Apostles of Jesus on his behalf for being from Nazareth.

Oh! So the Messiah is supposed to die! Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? It makes absolutely no sense at all. The Suffering Servant aka Messiah Ben Joseph was a suffering servant, not a dead servant. He was rejected by God when he went to exile forever; but Messiah Ben David aka Judah was confirmed by the Lord to remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever for the sake of David. (Psalm 78:67-70; I Kings 11:36)

 

[Ben Masada]

My parents have said that they and I are not Jews. But I am a convert. I may be of Levi. But you may need to answer how many generations until a person is a Jew or has a tribe? From Torah I don't see that there would need to be any from me. You said you welcome converts which is good. I am even a righteous proselyte, but you may not have already known this. No straddling the fence here Ben Masada. I am not straddling the fence. I have told you that I am a Jew as a convert. I accept all of Torah. Christians should too. But not everyone is of Israel. Some accept it to learn from but not to live by.

Jacob, I really do not understand what kind of Judaism you have converted to. Nothing is right about the things you have created about you. I doubt if you really converted because no Rabbi would have accepted your application with these ideas about being both, Jewish and Christian. And above all, you even want to belong to a Tribe in Israel. Well, I think you had a dream.

 

[Jacob]

Paul lost his Jewish identity from the day he decided to found an anti-Jewish religion aka Christianity. Jacob, to claim conversion to Judaism, you must leave Christianity behind. You can't carry it with you. Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

The New Way was the Sect of the Nazarenes organized by the Apostles of Jesus on his behalf for being from Nazareth.

Oh! So the Messiah is supposed to die! Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? It makes absolutely no sense at all. The Suffering Servant aka Messiah Ben Joseph was a suffering servant, not a dead servant. He was rejected by God when he went to exile forever; but Messiah Ben David aka Judah was confirmed by the Lord to remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever for the sake of David. (Psalm 78:67-70; I Kings 11:36)

Ben Masada,

Many are taught that it does not make sense to the Jews or to Jews that the Messiah was to die. It does make sense to those who have read the Messianic prophesies. But, the question about the Messianic hope is not always found to be realized as the fulfillment of prophecy, even Messianic prophesies, in the person of Yeshua Messiah, who died, was buried, and rose from the dead never to die again.

Psalm 16
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Also, about Levi. Is it true that a convert cannot be of Levi? Then how can a convert be of Levi?