The Public School SYSTEM

[Zakath]

Well, you gotta hand it to Enyart, he finally picked a topic he's knowledgable on - child abuse. :thumb:

 

[Servo]

Originally posted by Zakath

Well, you gotta hand it to Enyart, he finally picked a topic he's knowledgable on - child abuse. :thumb:

Spanking your child as a punishment is not child abuse. Sending them to a godless public school system that promotes abortion, homosexuality, and atheism is.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by AROTO
I guess your right, everyone is unique, so lets send them to a place where they can develop thousands of others "unique" traits and habits!
:kookoo:

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Shimei

Spanking your child as a punishment is not child abuse. Sending them to a godless public school system that promotes abortion, homosexuality, and atheism is.

Enyart did not do time in the county jail for "spankng" his chld.

First, IIRC, it wasn't his child.

Second, the court did not deem it a mere spanking.

Them's the breaks.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Freak

I'm not advocating. I'm merely pointing out the reality that homeschooling isn't an option when there is a single parent who has to work to support their family. There may be exceptions but most single parent homes are incapable of providing homeschooling. Furthermore...most parents in the inner city (with the all problems in the inner city) are incapable (due to familial dysfunctions) of homseschooling. What do you do then, Knight? Do you not allow the children to go to school? For many children in the inner city school is a refuge from home, as home life is dangerous.

Sometimes protecting our children is a very difficult thing to do.

If anyone ever claimed they were homeschooling because it was easy.... I would love to know their secret.

We homeschool our children because we are not about to turn them children over to the enemy for 8 hours a day.

If both I and my wife worked in the daytime we would have to homeschool our kids at night!

There is always a way - even if that way if very difficult.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Zakath
Second, the court did not deem it a mere spanking.

And we all know the court is always right.

 

[Yorzhik]

Originally posted by Zakath

So your father believes his training was a waste of time? That's a sad thing.

I disagree. There are other factors besides basic literacy that make people suitable, or not, for homeschool instruction. As a former home-school support group leader and activist, I've known scores of parents who were not qualified to homeschool their children, as evidenced by their children's miserable academic performance and poor basic literacy skills.

There must be something you are not telling us. This doesn't make sense. Scores of failing parents?

I was one of those parents that was a lazy homeschooler. But I did have my children take the standardized tests (Iowa and Stanford). Shockingly, my kids were average. Without too much effort, they are now average or ahead.

But you are correct. It isn't just literacy that allows competent homeschooling, but it takes character (maturity?) as well. But that is all, as you are about to mention...

In addition to literacy you must have each child's best interest at heart. You must know how your child learns and be able to model learning for them so they can take best advantage of a homeschooling situation.

Still, to accomplish this, you only have to be able to read and you have to care. Is it so out of the ordinary to assume that parents care for their children? Therefore, just being able to read to homeschool is a valid statement.

Too many uneducated people think that good homeschooling consists of plopping the kids at the kitchen table with a prepared self-study curriculum while the adult wanders off to busy themselves elsewhere. Most children will not learn well that way, though a few will. True education involves much more than pre-packaged curriculum.

What if educated people plopped their kids down and then ignored them, wouldn't there be the same result? Again, education doesn't matter. What matters is: Can they read? Do they care?

Finally, some homeschoolers are merely rebelling against the educational establishment and using their children as pawns in a game in which the children will be the losers. :thumb:

You don't draw your conclusion from your premise. How does rebelling against the current system (rebelling against a system that doesn't work - what a bunch of radical rebels ) make the children in the educational game their playing losers? Even if they are rebelling, if they can read, and they care, the children will be winners (even if the children are pawns, for that matter).

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Yorzhik

There must be something you are not telling us. This doesn't make sense. Scores of failing parents?

Yes. Scores. In my experience, not very many parents are cut out to be successful homeschoolers.

I was one of those parents that was a lazy homeschooler. But I did have my children take the standardized tests (Iowa and Stanford). Shockingly, my kids were average. Without too much effort, they are now average or ahead.

Since you admit to being less than diligent, I'm forced to assume that they were among the small group that succeeded (if you call "average" succeeding) and were basically self-taught. I'm glad for your children.

But you are correct. It isn't just literacy that allows competent homeschooling, but it takes character (maturity?) as well.

Did I forget diligence and hard work? :think:

Still, to accomplish this, you only have to be able to read and you have to care. Is it so out of the ordinary to assume that parents care for their children? Therefore, just being able to read to homeschool is a valid statement.

Some (not many) homeschool parents do not particularly care about how their children learn and couldn't articulate it when asked. They are homeschooling their children because it's their right and they are more insistent on exercising their rights than obtaining the best quality education for their children.

What if educated people plopped their kids down and then ignored them, wouldn't there be the same result? Again, education doesn't matter. What matters is: Can they read? Do they care?

You keep trying to assert that education does not matter. I am assuming that you are homeschooling very young children. Once they reach past late elementary levels, I will caution you that education, or access to educated tutors, does matter very much. Otherwise you will be producing little robots who can only regurgitate what they've read from their carefully controlled curricula. Higher level cognitive processing skills need stimulation too, not merely rote memory and recitation of factual information.

You don't draw your conclusion from your premise.

Perhaps I was not clear enough that I intended to include this last point as an afterthought. I tend to jot these types of posts more like stream of consciousness writing than formal compositions. (If I was doing the latter, my spelling would be better, for one thing. )

How does rebelling against the current system (rebelling against a system that doesn't work - what a bunch of radical rebels ) make the children in the educational game their playing losers? Even if they are rebelling, if they can read, and they care, the children will be winners (even if the children are pawns, for that matter).

Homeschooled children of parents who aren't truly interested in education are losing out on the potential to be educated. Merely pulling a child from public school and having them live in the house of a barely literate young adult does not automatically guarrantee that the child will succeed. Oh, the adult may succeed in making a point; that point being "this is my kid and I can do with them what I want. The child child may even come out of the exercise with some education, but experience has shown me that this is more in spite of the effort than because of it.

That said, I support the efforts of interested parents in homeschooling. My wife and I homeschooled our four children (and a number of others - it was legal in our state at the time) for years. But any good thing is less than beneficial when abused. That was the point I was attempting to make.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Knight

And we all know the court is always right.

No, courts, like churches, are run by humans.

However, courts are sometimes correct.

 

[AROTO]

Originally posted by Zakath

No, courts, like churches, are run by humans.

However, courts are sometimes correct.

Courts are sometimes right so they are good.

Public school teachers have gone thru college so they are good.

A single parent might fail at homeschooling- so homeschooling is bad!

Nice logic :juggle:

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Knight Sometimes protecting our children is a very difficult thing to do.

Believe me I know.

We homeschool our children because we are not about to turn them children over to the enemy for 8 hours a day.

I support those who homeschool. But, to say that parents in the inner city, who are suffering from all kinds of familial dysfunctions, are sending their kids to the enemy, by taking them to school, is just a plain stupid comment. Some kids live with the enemy (crazed parents, or in some cases just a relative). It's safer for the kids to go to school then to be at home.

There is always a way - even if that way if very difficult.

Knight, I noticed you didn't answer these questions:

Most parents in the inner city (with the all problems in the inner city) are incapable (due to familial dysfunctions) of homseschooling. Do you agree, due to their (the parent's) drug problem, home violence situation, etc.., that some kids would be better off at school then at home to learn?

For many children in the inner city, school is a refuge from home, as home life is dangerous.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Zakath

Yes. Scores. In my experience, not very many parents are cut out to be successful homeschoolers.

Yep. I agree. These posters need to take a journey through some big city (the inner city) sometime and see if the parents are capable of homeschooling their children with all the problem of violence, drug use, etc at home (I know there are some exceptions but generally speaking the kids would be better off at school). School would be a better place to learn then at home.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by AROTO

Courts are sometimes right so they are good.

I never said that.

Public school teachers have gone thru college so they are good.

I never said that.

A single parent might fail at homeschooling- so homeschooling is bad!

I never said that, either. That was Enyart's position, as quoted by Jefferson, not mine.

I happen to know some single parents who succeeded at homeschooling.

Nice logic :juggle:

Are you always this unobservant? I know it can be confusing, but do try to keep up with what is going on. :chuckle:

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Freak

Yep. I agree. These posters need to take a journey through some big city (the inner city) sometime and see if the parents are capable of homeschooling their children with all the problem of violence, drug use, etc at home (I know there are some exceptions but generally speaking the kids would be better off at school). School would be a better place to learn then at home.

Are you a Democrat?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Sozo

Are you a Democrat?

No, I'm a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you?

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Freak

No, I'm a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you?

So, you don't vote?

 

[jpbordeaux87]

Homeschooling has made me anti-social, and an indepentant thinker! An independant child is every christian parents worst nightmare, isn't it? Aren't they afraid that if there kids hear about another religion, they will convert? Aren't they afraid to let the supposed christian light that their children possess, shine out and touch those that don't have it? How is it that you can give your children communion, and then not trust the truth you have instilled into them, to guide them on the right path? By being on this website, I'm exposing myself to other beliefs that might pull my mind out of my parents belief. This is just as dangerous as public school! From reading and talking to other "good, christian homeschoolers" I have stepped away from what they have always taught me. I am still a christian, I just differ on certain matters, and they view this to be a great threat.

Parents want their children to be independant, but they want them to be independant, and believe EXCACTLY what you believe. :think:

I wouldn't want to go to public school, because I don't care for the schedule.

I'm not advocating. I'm merely pointing out the reality that homeschooling isn't an option when there is a single parent who has to work to support their family. There may be exceptions but most single parent homes are incapable of providing homeschooling. Furthermore...most parents in the inner city (with the all problems in the inner city) are incapable (due to familial dysfunctions) of homseschooling. What do you do then, Knight? Do you not allow the children to go to school? For many children in the inner city school is a refuge from home, as home life is dangerous.

Good point, Freak. Knight can talk about how bad public school was for him, or how bad it is for his children, but he has no right to say it's bad for everyone.

If both I and my wife worked in the daytime we would have to homeschool our kids at night!

And deprive our kids of important friendships that are part of building character. Depriving them of relationships with people that can build them up.

I'm not suggesting in anyway that you stop discerning what is good for your children (it's obviously not good for them to have drug dealer friends). Your child can go to public school and help the lost, and make good decisions. I don't know jack about chemistry (something I've always entertained thoughts of learning about) but my parents wouldn't trust me to make the right decisions, and they can't afford chemistry equipment.

I guess your right, everyone is unique, so lets send them to a place where they can develop thousands of others "unique" traits and habits!

I have an idea, lets lock them in a closet, and play a subliminal message of what we think is right over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Instead of shielding your children, prepare them. If you want to homeschool them, that's cool. But don't expect homeschooling to automatically equate to them being what you want them to be.

I would say homeschooling is a good thing, because instead of them being so caught up in other people, it gives them time to discover themselves.

I am in no way condemning your choices. I am asking you to not condemn others.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by jpbordeaux87

Homeschooling has made me anti-social, and an indepentant thinker! An independant child is every christian parents worst nightmare, isn't it? Aren't they afraid that if there kids hear about another religion, they will convert? Aren't they afraid to let the supposed christian light that their children possess, shine out and touch those that don't have it? How is it that you can give your children communion, and then not trust the truth you have instilled into them, to guide them on the right path? By being on this website, I'm exposing myself to other beliefs that might pull my mind out of my parents belief. This is just as dangerous as public school! From reading and talking to other "good, christian homeschoolers" I have stepped away from what they have always taught me. I am still a christian, I just differ on certain matters, and they view this to be a great threat.

I think what you are describing is what I would call "growing up." Having a young adult beginning to think for his or her self is frequently an uncomfortable experience for parents and institutional teachers, as well.

Parents want their children to be independant, but they want them to be independant, and believe EXCACTLY what you believe. :think:

That is very human. We want our children to be little "chips off the old block." That's one of the reasons there are so many legacy college students.

And deprive our kids of important friendships that are part of building character. Depriving them of relationships with people that can build them up.

Socialization is a vital part of successful homeschooling. For some isolated families, it might not be possible, but for most families if you don't get the kids out so they can meet other people their growth will be less than it could be.

I have an idea, lets lock them in a closet, and play a subliminal message of what we think is right over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Scarily, I think this is too close to the truth about the desires of some parents.

Instead of shielding your children, prepare them. If you want to homeschool them, that's cool. But don't expect homeschooling to automatically equate to them being what you want them to be.

I would say homeschooling is a good thing, because instead of them being so caught up in other people, it gives them time to discover themselves.

Excellent points. It sounds like you've been there and learned a few things along the way.

I am in no way condemning your choices. I am asking you to not condemn others.

Well, you're new here, but take a look at Knight's sig to see how well that idea will fly on TOL.

BTW, welcome and enjoy your stay! :thumb:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by jpbordeaux87

Homeschooling has made me anti-social, and an indepentant thinker!

Heaven forbid! Can't have any independent thinkers can we???

An independant child is every christian parents worst nightmare, isn't it?

You are a fraud aren't you?

You were never homeschooled and so far everything you have written is a lie isn't it?

I base this on your totally ignorant comments such as...

An independant child is every christian parents worst nightmare, isn't it?

:troll:

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Sozo

So, you don't vote?

Yes. I vote. I vote in believers of Christ into office. Do you?