John W doesn't like Tet. That's good enough for me.
The Preterists and Matthew 24:34
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
whitestone
Well-known member
that is an interesting way to trick people though,,,lead them to believe they left Judah when the scriptures say Judaea(as in the Roman Provence) so they wont realize the Christians never left "Judaea",,,but whats in a little lie,,,
They did flee to the mountains.
They did exactly as Jesus said.
(Luke 21:21 KJV) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Eusebius said the following:
"The people belonging to the church at Jerusalem had been ordered by an oracle revealed to approved men on the spot before the war broke out, to leave the city and dwell in a town of Peraea called Pella"- Eusebius (EH III:5)
If you're wondering about the "oracle" part, keep in mind the following verse:
(John 14:26) But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Not gonna tell ya.
whitestone
Well-known member
http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/israel-first-century.html Pella,in the Jordan "VALLY",,,
In 66AD the Jews rebelled against Rome
Rome sent Cestius Gallus and 30,000 Romans, who surrounded Jerusalem for 9 days.
Then with no explanation, Cestius Gallus and the 30,000 Roman soldiers retreated to the coast.
Josephus tells us that many Jews fled the city:
"After this calamity had befallen Cestius, many of the most eminent of the Jews swam away from the city.." Jewish War 2:20:1
This gave the Christians time to flee to the mountains.
A short time later Emperor Nero sent his general Vespasian, and Vespasian laid siege on the city. Nero died, Vespasian went back to Rome to become emperor, and Vespasian's son Titus finished the destruction of Jerusalem, which was completely destroyed in 70AD
Everything played out exactly how Jesus said it would.
Rome sent Cestius Gallus and 30,000 Romans, who surrounded Jerusalem for 9 days.
Then with no explanation, Cestius Gallus and the 30,000 Roman soldiers retreated to the coast.
Josephus tells us that many Jews fled the city:
"After this calamity had befallen Cestius, many of the most eminent of the Jews swam away from the city.." Jewish War 2:20:1
This gave the Christians time to flee to the mountains.
A short time later Emperor Nero sent his general Vespasian, and Vespasian laid siege on the city. Nero died, Vespasian went back to Rome to become emperor, and Vespasian's son Titus finished the destruction of Jerusalem, which was completely destroyed in 70AD
Everything played out exactly how Jesus said it would.
whitestone
Well-known member
so is Pella still within the Roman Provence of Judaea?,,,measure it and see here's a map at 20 miles per... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_(Roman_province)#/media/File:First_century_Iudaea_province.gif ,,,,,so nope they were in a vally not in the mountains and still in Judaea,,,
Seriously?
This is the best you can do?
Pella was two miles east of the Jordan river.
To get there from Jerusalem, they had to cross mountains.
They were safe from the Roman army there.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The times of the Gentiles will not be fulfilled until Jerusalem is no longer trodden down by the Gentiles:
"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (Lk.21:24).
The following proves that Jerusalem is still trodden down by the Gentiles and therefore the times of the Gentiles has not yet been fulfilled:
Even though the Jews are back in Israel and possess the city of Jerusalem, the part of that city which defines Judaism is Jewish worship in the Temple, and it is still not within their reach because most of the Temple area is under the sovereignty and protection of Islam. That includes the Mosque of Omar and the Mosque of ElAgsa.
According to you even though Gentiles have sovereignty over most of the Temple area Jerusalem is still not trodden down by the Gentiles. One of the meanings of the Greek word translated "trodden down" is "to treat with insult and contempt" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
The very fact that Gentiles built two of their mosques on the very land whre the Jews previously worshiped the LORD is an insult of the worse kind. And those mosques stand there today.
But according to you Jerusalem is no longer being trodden down or treated with insult and contempt by the Gentiles who are of Islam--despite the fact that the two mosques still remain on the land where the Jews previously worshiped God.
That is not what the verses says. From a certain point in time the times of the Gentiles will last 42 months.
Then why were the Jews excluded from Jerusalem upon penalty of death after the second Jewish revolt (A.D. 132-135)? All that remained in Jerusalem after that time and for many years were Gentiles.
And you say that the times of the Gentiles ended inn Jerusalem in 70AD.
In what way? You because you say that means nothing. Let us look at this verse again which describe the events which will hsappen after the great tribulation is over:
"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth (oikoumene)" (Lk.21;25-26).
Well known preterist author Gary DeMar defines the meaning of oikoumene here:
"The case can be made that 'oikoumene' is used exclusively for the geographical area generally limited to the Roman empire of the first-century and the territories immediately adjacent which were known and accessible to first-century travelers. When first-century Christians read the word 'oikoumene,' they thought of what they knew of their world" [emphasis mine] (Gary DeMar, "The Gospel Preached to All the World, Part 3 of 4; The Preterist Archive).
So when the first-century Christians read Luke 21:25-26 they understood that it was saying that upon seeing the signs in the sky the nations will be in fear of the things which were coming on what they knew of their world. And their world included the Roman Empire!
That never happened, tet. Gary DeMar's own words prove that preterism is nothing but a fable created by men who were determined to convince others that the man of sin has already come so there is no need to be on the watch for him.
You should really read Luke 21:21 again.
I have to admit, you are making one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard.
Don't you guys ever get tired of making things up, and clinging to alleged technicalities trying to defend Darby?
whitestone
Well-known member
No, that's not what that means.
The times of the Gentiles began with Babylon and ended when Rome destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD.
No it doesn't.
The people who call themselves Jews who live in the nation called Israel have absolutely nothing to do with the Jews from 70AD.
The old covenant is gone. There is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile.
Whatever buildings stand in Jerusalem today are meaningless. There is no more temple, no more Mosaic Law.
You sound like Hal Lindsay.
Whatever is happening in the Middle East right now has nothing to do with Bible prophecy.
All prophecy concerning the Jews and Jerusalem came to a complete end in 70AD.
We now live in a new heavens and new earth.
That's correct, and the certain point of time began when Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman army in 66AD.
42 months later, the temple was destroyed just like Jesus said it would.
Again, it's completely meaningless. Everything pertaining to Jews ended in 70AD. That was the end of the old covenant.
Yes.
whitestone
Well-known member
I have told you over and over "I do not follow Darby",,,ask the others if they see me as one of them,,,,
One more time:
(Luke 21:21 KJV) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
It says to flee to the mountains, it doesn't say leave Judaea completely.
I can't believe you are actually making this argument.
whitestone
Well-known member
and I tell you they are not,,,,
whitestone
Well-known member
Tet I will say this,,you like to crow like a rooster,you have a vendetta to crow. If you lie to them and don't explain all the facts I will because I love them,,,if they do this to you ask them if I've told them the same "add love to your sermon",,,,,,,,
That's like saying a Calvinist has nothing to do with John Calvin, or that a Mormon has nothing to do with Joseph Smith.
If someone's a Dispensationalist, they follow and parrot the teachings of John Nelson Darby.
It's funny, but only Dispensationalists go out of their way to disassociate themselves with the guy who invented everything they believe and parrot.