The Preterists and Matthew 24:34

[john w]

(Zech 14:8) On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

Dispensationalists claim the above is literal.

First off, it would be literally impossible for a river to flow east from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea and west to the Mediterranean Sea because of the elevations.

Secondly, Christ Jesus said the following:

(John 7:38) Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them."

What is "living water"?

We are told in the next verse:

(John 7:39) By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.....

So, the "living water" in Zech 14 that flows out of Jerusalem is not literally two rivers, it is the Holy Spirit, and the prophecy has been fulfilled.

You spam that on every thread, and it is addressed, deceiver, but you continue to spam it.


And you plagiarized the above. Plagiarism is against TOL rules. Knock it off, punk.

 

[john w]

The first part you bolded says "then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven". This part doesn't say anything about actually seeing Jesus, it says there will a sign OF the Son of Man.

If it was actually Jesus Himself that they were to see in heaven, then there would be no need for a sign.

The second part says they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power and great glory.

You satanic Preterism "argues" that signs are invisible, deceiver.

This is the same OT symbolism found in Isaiah 19. In Isaiah 19 God rode a swift cloud into Egypt.

As for the "sign" of the Son of Man in heaven, Josephus wrote of a star in the shape of a sword, or a comet that didn't move, that hung over Jerusalem for one year in 66AD.

You plagiarized that, Craigie. I told you to knock it off.

And quit citing Christ rejector Josephus, Christ rejector. This is a Christian board, primarily.

 

[john w]

All Old Testament prophecies have been fulfilled.

No, they haven't. Your father the devil taught you that.

 

[tetelestai]

Isaiah 65?

Yep, fulfilled.

 

[tetelestai]

Adolf Hitler (Anti-Christ)?

Christ Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through Him.

(John 14:6) Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Since the 6 million Jews who were exterminated by Hitler during the holocaust rejected The Lord Jesus Christ, wouldn't that mean that those 6 million Christ rejecting Jews are in hell together with Hitler?

 

[john w]

(Zech 14:8)

On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

Dispensationalists claim the above is literal............

Straight copy'npaste/plagiarized, from:

http://planetpreterist.com/content/day-lord-zechariah-14
https://creationconcept.wordpress.com/2012/12/19/are-all-of-zechariahs-prophecies-literal/

and others.......


Deceiver.

 

[Sonnet]

"Why so much ad hominem john w?"-you

vs.

"Seriously - some say that Christ returned under the guise of the Roman army in 70AD?"-you

Got it. Thanks for checkin' in.


Because of his AD 70/Roman army was the second coming jazz, sport. Pay attention.

Surely, such a view (that Christ has already returned) betrays the difficulties that Matthew 24:34 presents to Christianity - even to this day?

 

[Aaron the Tall]

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

Would you please give me your interpretation of the meaning of the words of the Lord Jesus there?

In talking with other partial preterists, some believe Matthew 25:31 is future, some think it is past. I have not come to a concrete conclusion on the matter.

We have established that "sitting on a throne" can be representational of positional authority - as in Revelation 3:21. The passage could be about Jesus "coming" in 70AD, where he also restructured His kingdom, removing the unbelieving Jews and welcoming the true believers. Or it could be about the final judgment. At this point I am open to either possibility. If it is the final judgement (which I tend to lean toward), the phrase "then He will sit on His glorious throne" does not have to mean that Jesus is sitting on the throne of David for the first time. "Sitting on the throne" can be a reference to operating out of kingly authority and judgment. For example: Proverbs 20:8 "A king who sits on the throne of justice Disperses all evil with his eyes."


"Sitting on David's throne" can be a reference to positional authority, as in Jeremiah 22:4 "For if ye do this thing indeed, then shall there enter in by the gates of this house kings sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, he, and his servants, and his people."

These kings are sitting on David's throne and riding chariots at the same time.

In the same way, Jesus said he would be "sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." He would be both sitting and coming. It doesn't say coming, then sitting. Do you think the right hand of power in this verse is a reference to David's throne?

At the least it refers to an earthly position of rule over Israel but it will eventually be world wide.

Oooh - interesting choice of words. What do you mean it will eventually be world wide? Are you suggesting that when Christ returns he will immediately be ruler of Israel, but it will take some time for him to be ruler of the world?

Either way, you must admit that David's throne here is not a literal continuation of the place of authority that David held. David's kingdom was not world wide. My point is that when Jesus sits on David's throne, it must be understood that "David's throne" is metaphorical of a greater reality than the actual throne King David sat in. It is not a 1:1 literal equivalent.

You haven't addressed my point that Acts 2 links Jesus' resurrection to him sitting on David's throne.

No I don't. There are several instances in the Scriptures that speak of the Lord coming in the clouds when He returns to earth but I am not aware of any verses in the entire Bible which uses similiar language to describe Him GOING TO heaven.

Perhaps you are aware of some?

I just gave you one. Daniel 7. The Son of Man is coming with the clouds of heaven. Where does he go? He "came up to the Ancient of Days." Where is the Ancient of Days? Sitting on his throne in heaven (vs. 9)

The Lord Jesus' words at Matthew 24 were in answer to this question:

"Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" (Mt. 24:3).​

Earlier the Lord Jesus spoke the parable of the "tares of the field" where He described what would occur at the "end of the age":

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Mt. 13:37-43).​

Here we can see that the Lord Jesus speaks of a harvest that will happen at the "end of the age", the "end of this age." He also makes it clear that the harvest will take place in the field, and He says that the "field is the world."

Obviously a world wide harvest did not happen in the first century. Before the kingdom will be set up on the earth it will be necessary to take out all of those who are not born again (Jn.3:3). After that happens then the kingdom will be set up and then ALL peoples and nations will serve Him.

We already covered my disagreement with your interpretation of those verses. You have not addressed my comments that Matthew 21 shows Jesus first coming was in respect to the harvest. You have not addressed Hebrews 9:26 which says Jesus came at the end of the age.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

(Zech 14:8) On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

Dispensationalists claim the above is literal.

First off, it would be literally impossible for a river to flow east from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea and west to the Mediterranean Sea because of the elevations.

Secondly, Christ Jesus said the following:

(John 7:38) Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them."

What is "living water"?

We are told in the next verse:

(John 7:39) By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.....

So, the "living water" in Zech 14 that flows out of Jerusalem is not literally two rivers, it is the Holy Spirit, and the prophecy has been fulfilled.

So now, Tet is telling us that this was fulfilled at the First Coming.
Brilliant!



Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zechariah 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The first part you bolded says "then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven". This part doesn't say anything about actually seeing Jesus, it says there will a sign OF the Son of Man.

If it was actually Jesus Himself that they were to see in heaven, then there would be no need for a sign.

The second part says they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power and great glory.

This is the same OT symbolism found in Isaiah 19. In Isaiah 19 God rode a swift cloud into Egypt.

As for the "sign" of the Son of Man in heaven, Josephus wrote of a star in the shape of a sword, or a comet that didn't move, that hung over Jerusalem for one year in 66AD.

Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days. Why 66ad and not 70ad?

 

[john w]

So now, Tet is telling us that this was fulfilled at the First Coming.
Brilliant!



Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zechariah 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

noTetosterone: You are in denial....'All the land shall be turned....And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited' is figurative/allegorical/hyperbolic/fulfilled in Christ Jesus....Don't you believe the bible?...Dispensationalism is a mess....Darby....of the flesh.......God will never dwell in 'man made' land, a 'man made' Jerusalem....Bullinger.....Teenie bob girl 'invented' dispensationalism....Anderson....Dispensationalists have no answer for...............Darby.................Is 1000 hills literal?.................Darby........................

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

noTetosterone: You are in denial....'All the land shall be turned....And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited' is figurative/allegorical/hyperbolic/fulfilled in Christ Jesus....Don't you believe the bible?...Dispensationalism is a mess....Darby....of the flesh.......God will never dwell in 'man made' land, a 'man made' Jeursalem....Bullinger.....Teenie bob girl 'invented' dispensationalism....Anderson....Dispensationalists have no answer for...............Darby.................Is 1000 hills literal?.................Darby........................

Preterism has more holes than the old bandstand...and spiders , too.

 

[john w]

Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days. Why 66ad and not 70ad?

It was a "gap," Mayor, a "transition period," kinda like when "The Andy Griffith Show" went from black and white, to color, and Ang lost his southern drawl. Wonder what causes that? Too much moonshine?

 

[john w]

Preterism has more holes than the old bandstand...and spiders , too.

Er, no,..As expected, you have no explanation for the concept of divorce, band concerts, and who Israel is. Darby....Don't you believe Josephus, Wiki? You are in denial. That's what happens, when you believe the "fallable teachings/inventions of men," instead of the bible. Why don't you believe Paul? Darby....

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It was a "gap," Mayor, a "transition period," kinda like when "The Andy Griffith Show" went from black and white, to color, and Ang lost his southern drawl. Wonder what causes that? Too much moonshine?

When dispies have no answers they always start talking about Andy "Griffin".

I lost a lot of respect for Andy when he picked up that high flutin' northern accent.

 

[john w]

When dispies have no answers they always start talking about Andy "Griffin".

Er, no, spelling was never one of my strong points, but the "subjunctive" in "the Mayberry-eek" says "Griffith."

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Er, no...I was a "black and white-est/ southern drawl-ist" for 14 years, and know more about spiders, band concerts than most. No one taught your "southern accent morphing into a northern accent" evolution, "invention," 55 years ago. You are in denial, and are scurrying like a spider/cockroach, when Gomer shines the light under that band concert stand.

A vision of a teenage girl having a vision appeared to Ange. From that point on, he spoke like a northerner.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Either way, you must admit that David's throne here is not a literal continuation of the place of authority that David held.

Of course I do. The Apostles, who had been with the Lord Jesus for forty days while He spoke to them about the kingdom, certainly believed that the kingdom would be restored to Israel.

David's kingdom was not world wide. My point is that when Jesus sits on David's throne, it must be understood that "David's throne" is metaphorical of a greater reality than the actual throne King David sat in. It is not a 1:1 literal equivalent.

Perhaps, but it is certain that the Lord Jesus' kingdom will be on the earth. That is why He had His disciples pray in the following way:

"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth"​

It is obvious that the Father's will has never been done on the earth as it is in heaven. Therefore, we can know that the Lord Jesus has not yet returned to the earth:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).​

You haven't addressed my point that Acts 2 links Jesus' resurrection to him sitting on David's throne.

The Scriptures reveal that the Lord Jesus Christ will sit upon David's as Man and He was resurrected so that He can sit upon that throne. There is nothing said there that even hints that He is sitting upon that throne now.

I just gave you one. Daniel 7. The Son of Man is coming with the clouds of heaven. Where does he go? He "came up to the Ancient of Days." Where is the Ancient of Days? Sitting on his throne in heaven (vs. 9)

WRONG. Daniel 7:9 says nothing about the Ancient of Days sitting on His throne in heaven. Instead, from the context of verse 8 we can see that the action is set upon the earth. And the following also proves the same thing:

"Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom" (Dan.7:22).​

The saints will be reigning on the earth with the Lord Jesus so this action also speaks of things happening on the earth, including the fact that the kingdom will be earthly in nature:

"And hath made us unto our God kings and priests: and we will reign on the earth" (Rev.5:10).​

This has never happened and so it remains in the future.

You have not addressed my comments that Matthew 21 shows Jesus first coming was in respect to the harvest.

So? You are not saying that happened at the end of the age, are you. After all, the harvest at the end of the age will be upon the world (Mt.13) and that has never happened.

You have not addressed Hebrews 9:26 which says Jesus came at the end of the age.

I did answer that. Paul and those whom he taught believed that they would remain alive when they would be caught up in the air to meet the Lord Jesus so they thought the time in which they were living was the end of the age.

You said that you have already addressed my points about the world wide judgment of Matthew 13 but I cannot find it. Can you give me the post number where you did address it?

Thanks!

 

[john w]

A vision of a teenage girl having a vision appeared to Ange. From that point on, he spoke like a northerner.

And Clara Edwards was really Clara Johnson, and Goober Beasley was really Goober Pyle. You're in denial.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

And Clara Edwards was really Clara Johnson, and Goober Beasley was really Goober Pyle. You're in denial.

Well, I think we can at least agree on one thing: Warren was the anti-Barn.