SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Is that anything like Nectarine Crush from Wally's?
ECT The Mystery: What and Why
- Thread starter Danoh
- Start date
Is that anything like Nectarine Crush from Wally's?
You wouldn't know the difference between that, and a Hucklelberry Smash, would you Mayor? Let me guess-you take off on Tellalie/slander Craigie-"Close enough....I don't know.....One theory is....."
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I once had a mountain dew, or so I thought. I found out later that it was a Meller Yeller. Close enough right?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Apparently, brother, constantly changing one's mind regarding doctrine is a good thing?
I am trying to recall how many times Paul changed his mind between Acts 9 and Acts 28.
Interplanner
Well-known member
No that is not the mystery. the grammar does not go there. It goes to 'through the Gospel' that this share-benefit would happen through the Gospel.
heir
TOL Subscriber
:chuckle:
There were Jews and Greeks (Greeks are Gentiles) in the first of the twain made one new man. Ephesians 3:6 KJV is the mystery about these Gentiles (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) being made nigh (Ephesians 2:13 KJV)/fellowheirs and of the same Body with the Jews and Greeks (Gentiles in the promise) to whom Paul was first sent: and that, by the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV)!
I was rereading through this thread, beginning all the way back from the OP.
The thread started off hoping to basically just compare notes...
Only to be derailed by those who not only insisted they alone are right, but with all sorts of false accusations included and leaving no door open to any attempt at reason with them - every shool of thought has them :chuckle:
The thread started off hoping to basically just compare notes...
Only to be derailed by those who not only insisted they alone are right, but with all sorts of false accusations included and leaving no door open to any attempt at reason with them - every shool of thought has them :chuckle:
Problem is, a "share-benefit...through the gospel" had been Prophesied.
In other words what is being communicated in Ephesians as to a "share-benefit...through the gospel" is an UNprophesied one.
An UNprophesied gospel; its UNprophesied shared benefit; who the parties are; and what its own, unique end intent is.
Because the redemption of man is not the end intent.
Unless God would have all men to be saved just to save them and there is nothing after that either here, or later in glory.
Hopefully, Inter, you will at least read the content of the link mentioned in the OP.
If you won't do that much; then you'll leave me no choice once more, but to return to not really answering you.
The ball is in your court.
Though I found I do not hold to that link's content as to every point; I also found that I do hold to much of it; which was why I posted it.
Nope.
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
That is speaking of the Gentiles being made fellowheirs with the Heir: with Christ; as a result of their being made of His same Body with Him.
1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
It is through this union - with Him - that the Gentiles are being partakers with Him of the Father's promise in His Son; heirs with Christ in Him, of the unsearchable riches the Father has promised His Son.
The gospel Paul preached among the Gentiles; the means by which the Gentiles can avail themselves of that.
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
And in Paul's gospel (which is this side of Israel's fall), the Jew is viewed as the Gentile had been viewed back when the Gentiles was concluded under sin.
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
In the following, Paul includes himself (former unbelieving Gentiles; and his fellow, former unbelieving Israelites); as to their collective prior status.
Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Just as he includes himself in the following...to the Body of Christ at Rome...
Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
ClimateSanity
New member
Now that you knocked out heirs legs in response to Gigliotti, how do you answer his charge?
I doubt she will agree that I, as you put it "knocked out heirs legs" :chuckle:
What ever you meant by that...
Let me read G's post, so I can comment on it.
Looking at what G said....
I see that I already answered it - in my post to Interplanner above - in my response to what Inter said about a "shared benrfit."
I see that I already answered it - in my post to Interplanner above - in my response to what Inter said about a "shared benrfit."
ClimateSanity
New member
Knocked the legs out of heirs argument is how that was meant to be worded. I don't actually agree you did. Gigs reading of Ephesians 3:6 is a common understanding of that verse.
Interplanner
Well-known member
It is not a complete reading of Eph 3:6 to say it is the shared things. It is how they are shared that was veiled. The whole sentence must be drawn out, diagrammed out. To cut it short is sort of symbolic of poor Biblical reading.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
That's right.
Arm in arm does not describe the FELLOWSHIP accurately.
By the same token, Heir's idea of alien gentiles is nowhere to be found in scripture.
PEACE.
Nope...
Both Ephesians 3's unique - Heavenly - FELLOWSHIP WITH THE SON IN HIS GLORY WITH HIM AS A NEW CREATURE IN GLORY OVER GLORY WITH HIM: The Body of Christ - and its gospel - BOTH ABOUT this, AND AS ITS' MEANS OF ENTERING INTO this fellowship - were a secret "hid in God" til "committed to" Paul.
Ephesians 1 and 2 describe the means whereby both are made nigh to God IN HIS SON by Paul's Mystery gospel.
Ephesians 1 and 3 ALSO deal with the PURPOSE of said salvation.
Everyone goes on and on and on ad nauseum about o God just wants to save people from hell.
Like pre-school children - still playing with blocks as imagined "real" bricks :chuckle:
As if God's so called saving people "mission" is the end of it.
In actuality, He has a purpose: a why and what unto He wants to save them.
It is the huge, huge failure to look into WHY God is saving people, that has so many so off-base as to what Ephesians is actually talking about.
This passage that follows - well, there is a lot in Paul's writings as to just what it is....
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Salvation is only the beginning, not the end of WHY God would have all men to be saved.
It is not just to keep people out of hell.
Where is that in all the endless books "about"?
It's is not - they are absolutely clueless about it.
It was lost; and Timothy may or may not have continued it; as he had been undergoing serious pressures from within himself to abandon Paul's teachings, now that Paul was facing execution and looked as if he had been wrong...
2 Timothy 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
Paul's entire last letter - 2 Timothy is this issue - Paul's words to a young Pastor undergoing tremendous internal pressure to not continue in - the things that thou hast heard of me (been taught by me) among many faithful witnesses) (or true "signs of an Apostle").
2 Timothy 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Both Ephesians 3's unique - Heavenly - FELLOWSHIP WITH THE SON IN HIS GLORY WITH HIM AS A NEW CREATURE IN GLORY OVER GLORY WITH HIM: The Body of Christ - and its gospel - BOTH ABOUT this, AND AS ITS' MEANS OF ENTERING INTO this fellowship - were a secret "hid in God" til "committed to" Paul.
Ephesians 1 and 2 describe the means whereby both are made nigh to God IN HIS SON by Paul's Mystery gospel.
Ephesians 1 and 3 ALSO deal with the PURPOSE of said salvation.
Everyone goes on and on and on ad nauseum about o God just wants to save people from hell.
Like pre-school children - still playing with blocks as imagined "real" bricks :chuckle:
As if God's so called saving people "mission" is the end of it.
In actuality, He has a purpose: a why and what unto He wants to save them.
It is the huge, huge failure to look into WHY God is saving people, that has so many so off-base as to what Ephesians is actually talking about.
This passage that follows - well, there is a lot in Paul's writings as to just what it is....
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Salvation is only the beginning, not the end of WHY God would have all men to be saved.
It is not just to keep people out of hell.
Where is that in all the endless books "about"?
It's is not - they are absolutely clueless about it.
It was lost; and Timothy may or may not have continued it; as he had been undergoing serious pressures from within himself to abandon Paul's teachings, now that Paul was facing execution and looked as if he had been wrong...
2 Timothy 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
Paul's entire last letter - 2 Timothy is this issue - Paul's words to a young Pastor undergoing tremendous internal pressure to not continue in - the things that thou hast heard of me (been taught by me) among many faithful witnesses) (or true "signs of an Apostle").
2 Timothy 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
heirs, according to the promise
+
heirs, by the gospel (of the grace of God)
=
fellowheirs
+
heirs, by the gospel (of the grace of God)
=
fellowheirs
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
Read your OT. Gentiles everywhere...most excluded from this blessing: Gen 12:1-3 (KJV)