So "tough" love is all you know. I can accept that, but you grew up in a weird family.
not enough to try and belittle and insult me but now even drag my family into this?
In Bible College, there were 600 people that generally seemed to agree that love looked a little more like caring, we didn't get into spats nor correct harshly. A few Lord-it-over professors were dismissed. Teaching is a spiritual gift and some who don't have it, shouldn't be doing it....but I digress.
yes yes even the pagans love each other...
Tradition is fine, but it is nothing to base assertions upon.
which until you show where He rid us of the Sabbath you only follow man’s tradition...He instead expected Sabbath to continue Matt 24:20
Peter was familiar with 'all of Paul's writings.' 2 Peter 3:16
Paul was writing to Timothy about OT scripture and was NOT writing about Peter’s NT letters as that canon had not been established yet. Peter wrote after Paul...scholars even consider both these books as even later and not authored by them...
You can beat the hell of kids, or love the hell out of them. The O.T. called for a rod. Find a N.T. correlation? There are very few Covenantalists on the planet, most today are Dispensational and I went to a Dispensational college. One of my professors, however, was Covenantal and I've leaned that way most of my life. However, as a Covenentalist, I was always in fear of Hebrews 6:4 among other verses, that I could 'lose' my salvation, based solely off of Law infraction.
revealing...thanks?
Ephesians, especially, became a life ring for me. I was a 'good' kid, but I still wrestle[d] with those sins that so easily entangle. Hebrews 12 says to throw them off, and I do, but the world is always in our faces. One can hardly walk out the door without appeals to those temptations of the flesh: lust of the eyes, pride of life, arrogant and haughty spirit, etc. Reading through Hebrews one day, "Our forefathers" struck me. I wasn't Jewish. I didn't have those forefathers. There were a number of other references for other Jews and I put Hebrew 6 in context: They were sacrificing for their sins and the warning was against it: "There remains no other sacrifice for sins other than Christ." Clearly I'm not to do as Jews then nor now. There is something even Jews, converting to Christianity weren't supposed to do, REGARDLESS of every Jot and Tiddle not disappearing, they yet, were not supposed to follow it to the "T" any longer. Which was which? Which are we to follow, which are we supposed to learn from but NOT follow, because Christ fulfilled it?
wow...how about no more shedding of blood? Circumcision or sacrifices...oh and stoning for infractions let His be the vengeance
You and I disagree on the scope, but we should not disagree on the precept.
I think the scope is since we are saved please Him...the precept is how to do that...follow Him His way...His faith
So we agree on scope and disagree on the precept...I wish to keep the 10 you claim it was abolished
right...Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 completely followed as LOVE it would indeed keep the Law...especially since it was understood to love Yah one kept the Sabbath as true worship and in gratitude for creation and salvation from Egypt...and even give health to rest yourself and your neighbors/employees...
You judge, don't listen. That is your problem and it isn't 'loving.' Not even 'tough loving.' Work on it.
what does that have to do with having itching ears following jewish fables like Jesus changed the customs of Moses? Act 6:13-14
Yeah, when I was a child, I did childish things like punching my brother. When I became a man, I did away with childish things (at least in the sense of where I am on the maturity level).
really? And becoming a man you are no longer mind your brother? Keep him from stumbling? Correct rebuke reproof...
I do. WAY more frequently than you do. You give obscure little links, not a lot of scripture. That you can talk through some of them? Good, but they really should be a large part of this discussion. ONLY God's Word doesn't return void. Your's and mine certainly can and will. It is why I endeavor to use a lot more of Him, and a lot less of me. You might take note....
here’s a link:
http://www.fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html
A study of Acts full of scripture...
To a mind, READY to jump to conclusions and confirmed bias? I bet it does.
Cute
Don't quit your day job. "Counselling, Pastor, Teacher..." these you should re-evaluate along with your attempt at discernment or reading minds. You aren't good at these. Your gift likely dwells in some other place.
And now back to the message...
:nono: Scripture claimed it. I simply posted it.
nope you claim it says abolished the Law when it is the enmity jews had of gentiles found in ordinances they had constructed like that middle wall He tore down to make ONE NEW MAN from the two...
Which makes you 1) ignorant (uninformed intentionally or not) 2)Dumb (incapable of reasoning) or 3) Lying (purposefully misstating truth you know to be otherwise).
I addressed it.
oh my...
Speaking of irony, I've got you outposted with scriptures (really the only thing that matters) about 50 to one.
quality not quantity...think knock out vs blocked jabs...lol
:nono: I recognize scriptures when I see them, it is why I return with them. However, Satan misquoted scriptures. You've demonstrated Eve misquoted them.
yup added to the Word...and you wish to subtract...the Law even...
The problem is 1) others likely will not see them in scripture 2) you are being lazy, and 3) Only His words will accomplish what He desires, thus it is best to give Him credit 4) while we may use His words, there are plagiarism problems with not attributing your source. 5) It keeps people from arguing with you, and grasping the need to discuss these things with their Creator.
ok but even with the Eve thingy you missed why I used scripture...guess I should have cited it Gen 3:3 vs Gen 2:17 see how she added? Dont do that.
.
Which is why your love is 'tough' love. It is very O.T. 1 Corinthians 10:9 Sin is sin, but following the O.T. is recommitting to becoming a Jew 'to earn or keep' standing with God.
The bronze serpent became an idol only after the Spirit left it...when they dismissed the Law of “no image worship”...oh and given to Israel not just jews...
Your whole “Becoming a jew” is a jest at best at worst anti semitic? So following the “don't steal” is also recommitting to becoming a jew? How about “don't lie”...you scared of being jewish?
Paul reminds us it is the Circumcision of the Heart...the spiritual “inner jew” which is regenerated by Him into FOLLOWING HIM HIS WAY
Is marriage also jewish as it is found in the OT around the time of Sabbath institution actually...
It’s your refusal to accept that in the OT it was NEVER “keep the Law in order to be saved” but “you ARE saved keep the law”
Love this way because HE first loved you THIS WAY...
You jumped into a conversation where 3rdAng was using it to 'enjoy a day off.' Because you jumped in the middle, it indeed, did appear that fleshly matters were your concern as well.
right...many things I have posted appear to you...even before you actually read
You just assume and then seek to retort...
Yes, but as with the JV/Varsity discussion, the Lord Jesus Christ raised the bar MUCH higher.
but did not change the rules of the game...as JV and VARSITY actually play the same game
The O.T. was like 'fat camp' with people who could barely get out of bed, metaphorically, to please God. Thus, those were 'low' hurdles (not to get too far from football analogy, where hurdles and tires are also involved). Jesus set the bar much higher in His sermon on the mount. It wasn't that the Law was abolished as much as the bar was set much higher, for instance, where divorce 'was' acceptable, but "God made them one flesh."
Well then say that...He did not abolish “dont commit adultery” with His it begins inwardly first
Nor did he abolish “do not commit adultery” with His it begins inwardly first...
You know the circumcised heart the inner jew the spiritual realm...
So when Pharisees accused Him of breaking their rules for to protect the Sabbath’s inward rest He revealed they were too zealous and Sabbath is a love of the game NOT squabbling over rules not even in the original rulebook authored by the Lord of the Sabbath
And yet you insist at best you keep Sabbath your own way...at worst it was abolished...
AND AGAIN
SABBATH IS NOT TO SAVE BUT BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED...
A reminder we are created by Him and freed BY HIM from the consequences of sin and the enmity of the jews...
we are now citizens of the commonwealth of Israel...HIS PEOPLE is why Heb 4:9...there got it?
That is your fear, talking. I didn't abolish the Law. I quoted a scripture. It is either true, or it is not. There is no banter about that. It is either true or it is not. It is as simple as that.
That marriage is still binding and not abolished...yes that is true...as are the shadows which point to the good things still to come...Col 2:17...
His Law is called eternal and perfect for a reason...
You quoted scripture but then claim otherwise...
At this point, in your hasty assessments, I cannot take the warning without also considering you are given to exaggerations and half, unrefined truths. I'm not going to lose sleep over your apparently 'prophetic' pronouncement. Your britches are a little too big.
not big enough to hold what you carry around...jewish fables about Jesus changing the customs Moses delivered...
Ah, 'despite.' Yeah, when a godly man actually comes my way and says 'Lon, you are not Christlike' I'll worry. You? You don't even balk at doing internet sessions :noway: You are a weirdo.
Ah, it was the 'but' that caught me.
It surely is.
paused for word from our sponsors “Lon’s gratifications”...now we resume the program
It is, you cannot be saved by keeping it. If it worked, there was no need for a Savior.
Duh...you are saved by Him is why you WANT to keep it...
Law worked just fine...pointed out sin and the NEED OF HIM...
You would blame the map cuz you’re lost...or blame the rule book because your team lost...LOL
Cart before the horse. An unbeliever can't. A believer can't help but...
BINGO...an unbeliever can NOT keep the Law as ALL HAVE SINNED...and IN HIM a believer can...
But again its a rule book you still have to play the game...hopefully WANT to...
ok we pause the program of “THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL ROM 7:14” for yet another commercial break from our sponsor “Lon’s gratifications”
it was the low bar of behavior in many instances, like 'divorce.' 1) Jesus raised the bar from 'you have heard, BUT I tell you..." and 2) Spiritual people are being trained, a different way, (by the Spirit) to be Spiritual. You are playing Holy Spirit.
right Law remains...to teach AS ALWAYS of the Spiritual realm...blood of bulls could not remove sin Heb 10:4 that was His job...blood of bulls what a teaching aid about HIM
Anybody, a Muslim, Buddhist, could say they have His Spirit (likely not given their beliefs).
LOL...exactly BINGO...they can claim they are spiritual or even SPIRIT LED but their fruits ARE NOT HIS...
Rather, however, you nor I can 'born again' somebody. You nor I can 'new creation' somebody. Only Christ can. At that point, he/she needs neither you nor I, but in whatever sense we bless them. They do not need awkward teaching that gets in the way of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit IS the embodiment of ALL His teaching. You cannot play Holy Spirit for another person (STOP, I said "HOLY Spirit, don't liken Him to anybody else, but God very God, not Muslims or Buddhists or wherever your disclaimer wants to distractedly traverse).
exactly baptism is a one time symbol only...and must be voluntary...NOT FORCED...is why we dont infant baptize or CIRCUMCISE as that alone DOES NOT SAVE...even Muslims circumcise THEY ARE NOT SAVED...only IN HIM...and then FOLLOWING HIM AS HE LIVED AND LOVED
“and yet Sabbath was sweet sweet grace given even BEFORE the need of rest...before the curse of sin...its sweat inducing WORK...six daze...” you skipped this because?
But yup...SUCH GRACE...His works given for us to do before we were born...
Sometimes more, sometimes less. A holy day is a day God has made. You are once again caught up in fleshly concern over it. It is kept by all who are indwelled with Him.
yes He made it HOLY so until you show me where He made it UNHOLY it is kept by all who are indwelled with Him...as works befitting repentance...six days work seventh day rest...
Not fleshy SPIRITUAL Rom 7:14 kept by inner jews...lol
Then he/she doesn't want to play football, or be a Christian as the metaphor applies. Your Law thumping will never do it for them. There has to be a love for the game or it isn't going to happen.
HalleluYah...and with David sums it up Psalms 119:174 “I long for your salvation (Yahushua) Yah and your law gives me delight” see? Faith first...salvation first...then the law...wanna play? Here is how...
and even Paul Rom 7:22 I delight in the Law of Yah...
but you said the Law was abolished...
so which game is loved for its NOT having rules...just make it up as you go along...2020 years later and the bullies are still running the playground with
So you don't understand the Sermon on the Mount? It is taking you backwards, not forwards. You don't keep running low hurdles once you've graduated. As Paul said, the Law was a trainer. Those trained? They move further in Christ. If that is all you get from me, this is about the only thing worthy of taking note of in this thread, which YOU started hammering away with Sabbath keeping.
I have seen pros do low hurdles to keep in shape...not to become pro of course not...lol
So tell me...once all trained up you quit? Or maybe play by other rules?
You say move further in Christ...but AWAY from His Father’s will? From what He exemplified we do?
I hammered away with Sabbath keeping? LOL...THAT IS THIS THREAD TITLE
I sincerely hope that even in your lovey dovey 600 student college if someone said they loved Jesus but kept stealing every day someone would address it...or if he was committing adultery...to that person I am sure it would feel like “the whole school is hammering away at me” boo hoo
so first you go off the ditch into “no more law” and now you oversteer into “exceed the law” LOL
you keep bringing it up...hope the Mrs agrees
But yes see the Law remains and was restored...by the Lord of the Sabbath...the One Who gave it...
and won't sacrifice an animal upon an altar. Why? 1) Low bar
right no more need for shedding of blood now that we have His blood for the Wrath to pass over...
2) because in Christ, anyone actually filled with Him WILL NECESSARILY exceed it!
ONLY IF THEY COPY HIM...LOVE AS HE DID...including giving their employees Sabbath days...
They are not going to cry or bow down at every intersection for the stop light.
oh my
It is functional for what we need but Christ is the Object of affections.
DO as HE DID
At the bema seat, it is relational "Depart I never knew you." Their defense was 'didn't we keep? Didn't we do? It wasn't about doing, it was about being known.
WRONG what they listed as doing was not what was expected...He called what they were doing as LAWLESSNESS...NOT His Father’s will...DO THAT
Did the thief on the Cross do any one thing to be with Jesus in Paradise? He had faith.
and he demonstrated his faith by rebuking a mocker, accepting his guilt, requesting forgiveness and to be with Him in His kingdom...that thief did more than a lot of Christians I know to demonstrate his faith
Now tell me something...suppose the thief would have lived...come down off the cross? You really expect me to accept that according to you he would NOT KEEP THE LAW? Go back to stealing? You know cuz Law being abolished...or he be under grace not the Law...
Which day is it? How do I, a gentile, keep it? What am I, according to you, supposed to do?
work six daze rest the seventh...as was His CUSTOM go to the synagogues LOL tell them about Lord of the Sabbath Who did NOT change the customs Moses delivered...walk about with your disciples, heal, read Isaiah et al, pray
whatever you really think would KEEP IT HOLY...you a holy temple now learning holy show times...go sin no more be more LIkE Him...run the race earn the prize...
Well DONE good faithful servant
This also is a problem with not using scriptures. You mixed them out of context in your head.
2 Timothy 4:4 itching ears from their own desires is confirming Dan 7:25 that both times and Law will be changed...
And rather than the Sabbatismos of Heb 4:9 people will claim a JesusRest every day...as if He came to contradict His Fathers Will...
So I need to sacrifice bulls for thank offerings?
now who is fleshy carnal minded offer the sacrifices of your lips...as it was during the time between temples...CERTAINLY DO NOT support Zionists their rebuilding another temple to do so...
How many of them are you observing? Which are you ignorant of?
trying to get better at this game I love...thanks
Or do I only keep the four you mentioned, as a gentile? :think:
LOL you really think the crowding gentiles were allowed to steal lie kill covet worship images another god sunday observance use another name dishonor parents as long as they didnt practice sexual immorality offer food to idols eat meat strangled or full of blood?
Hmmm...well certainly not in the first century...perhaps afterwards as is evident...but James concluded the matter then that they would continue to hear Moses EVERY SABBATH Act 15:21
Be specific, my eternity seems to be on the scale in your judgment.
asked and answered...
What qualifications do you have? Why should I listen to you compared to any other Adam?.
Choose ye this day Whom ye will serve...and how...See Romans 6:16