The law of the Lord is perfect

[jamie]

Refer to Jer 31:31-33 in which God said there would be a new covenant and new law, not like the one He gave at Mt Sinai.

Jeremiah 31:31: "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah."

Paul explained the Sinatic covenant did not replace or modify God's covenant with Abraham.

Galatians 3:17: "And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect."

Galatians 3:15: "Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it."

The Sinaitic covenant is totally separate and distinct from the covenant with Abraham that was confirmed by Christ."

The significance of this is that the new covenant with Israel and Judah is not a covenant with Gentiles. The Gentiles were by definition not of the house of Israel or the house of Judah. The only relationship God has with Gentiles is through Abraham and his Seed.

Galatians 3:16: "Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, 'And to seeds' as of many, but as of one, 'And to your Seed' who is Christ."

Galatians 3:8: "And the Scripture foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand saying, 'In you all the nations shall be blessed.'" So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Galatians 3:29: "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise."

If a person is not Abraham's seed, then the person is not of Christ.

 

[TweetyBird]

Well at least you got one passage that tells you a little something of the will of Elohim:



But do you understand what that truly means?
You do not receive the Promise until AFTER you have done the will of Elohim:

Hebrews 10:35-36
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompence of reward.
36 For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of Elohim, you might receive the promise.

And Paul tells you much more about the will of Elohim:

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8
1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Master Yeshua, that as you have received of us how you ought to walk and to please Elohim, so you might abound more and more.
2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the Master Yeshua [the Testimony of Yeshua written in the Gospel accounts].
3 For this is the will of Elohim, even your sanctification, that you should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor;
5 Not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles which know not Elohim:
6 That no one go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because YHWH is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified [Matthew 18:8-10].
7 For Elohim has not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despises, despises not man, but Elohim, who has also given unto us His holy Spirit.

And the "new covenant" Spirit is the full Testimony of Yeshua because it is a kainos-renewed covenant. And Paul here is clearly teaching the parables, allegories, idioms, and sayings of Yeshua as COMMANDMENTS. If your right eye offends you, pluck him out and cast him out of you; if your right hand offends you, cut him off and cast him from you; if your foot is always running swiftly into mischief, cut him off from your midst and cast him from you: MORTIFY the "unruly members" of your "household", (the body-temple is the house). Soul for soul, eye for eye, hand for hand, foot for foot, cut them off before they choke you out and keep you from receiving the Promise. All these things STILL have to do with true circumcision of the heart as in my first comments to you.

Colossians 3:5-7
5 Mortify [put to death] therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil lustfulness, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For the sake of which things the wrath of Elohim comes upon the sons of disobedience:
7 In the which you also once walked when you lived in them.

Romans 8:13-14
13 For if you live [walk] after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of Elohim, these are the sons of Elohim.

It truly sounds to me like you have done nothing more than tell yourself that Yeshua has already done all these things for you. This may or may not be true for you but I know it is true of many who speak and think like you do.

I think you have completely missed the point. It's not obedience to "Torah" that one receives the promises of God. It's belief in Christ. Rom 10. You seem to think that if one is not "Torah observant" they are somehow unrighteous and willingly sinful. The NT shows what the will of God is - to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and to love one another as He gave us commandment [1 John 3:23]

What Jesus taught is not what was implied in Torah - He was teaching new commandments and doctrines not found therein. The people were amazed and surprised at what He taught.

So you think Jesus was commanding that people literally pluck out their eyes? :shocked:


What is the will of God?

John 6
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Gal 3
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.


1 Tim 4
7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. 9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Titus 1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 in hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 but hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

Heb 4
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Heb 6
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18 that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: 19 which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; 20 whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

James 2:5
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?


2 Peter 1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

 

[daqq]

I think you have completely missed the point. It's not obedience to "Torah" that one receives the promises of God. It's belief in Christ. Rom 10. You seem to think that if one is not "Torah observant" they are somehow unrighteous and willingly sinful. The NT shows what the will of God is - to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and to love one another as He gave us commandment [1 John 3:23]

I just showed you from the scripture some of what the will of Elohim concerns; with your response here above, I can now only assume that you reject the testimony of Paul and the author of Hebrews.

What Jesus taught is not what was implied in Torah - He was teaching new commandments and doctrines not found therein. The people were amazed and surprised at what He taught.

That is a false statement concerning the teachings and Testimony of Yeshua. Yeshua is the one prophesied by and through Moshe, that Prophet like unto Moshe, (Deuteronomy 18), who was to come. The Testimony of Yeshua expounds Torah, Prophets, and Writings, all of Tanach, or at least everything one needs to know to understand and walk it.

So you think Jesus was commanding that people literally pluck out their eyes? :shocked:

Your ignorance of supernal things with supernal meanings is not on my account.

1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Posting a mountain of scripture does you no good when you do not understand what it all means. And what is the final passage quote from 1John 2:22-25 supposed to mean to me in the context of what we were talking about? Are you suggesting that if I do not agree with you then that makes me an antichrist? Why from those of your mindset does it always come down to a misuse of the scripture as a weapon to strike out against those with whom you disagree? Typically this occurs when someone gets frustrated, having no argument, or having been shown to have no argument to begin with. :crackup:

 

[Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov]

Another thing I thought I would chime in on is the bloodthirsty chr-stian notion that only blood can atone for sin. Where do they get this ridiculous idea?

The Hebrew root verb – חֵט – ḥét, which is pretty much pronounced “hate” believe it or not, means “ to make a mistake,” “to err,” “to have an accident,” “to miss the mark,” “to fall short,” etc. This word and all of its variants are the words translated “sin” in virtually all Bibles.

The Hebrew masculine noun – חִטְא – ḥit’, and feminine noun – חָטָא – ḥataʾ both mean “mistake,” “error,” “accident,” “failure,” “missing the mark,” “falling short,” etc. Both refer specifically to unintentionally, accidentally violating a Mitz’vah without knowing that you did so. The – חַטָּאת – ḥattaʾt “sin offering,” “sin sacrifice,” atones for this, and only this type of violation. But even with this type of violation, blood was not mandatory, the primary offering was an adult female sheep or goat, secondary was two turtle doves, thirdly was 1/10^th of an ephah of flour. The last time I checked flour did not contain any blood.

However, there are more serious violations of God’s Commands, such as – עֲווֹן – ʿăvon, which is most accurately translated “misdemeanor,” but most commonly translated with the obscure word “iniquity;” and – פֶּשַׁע – peshaʿ, which is most accurately translated “felony,” but most commonly whitewashed with the obscure term “transgression.” There is no sacrificial offering that can atone for either of these offences. Only restitution with a penalty and forgiveness from the victim can atone for an ăvon; and only death or banishment can atone for a pesha.

No one can pay for a crime that has been committed except the person who committed the crime. I cannot go to prison for something that you did; you cannot go to prison for something that I did. I cannot be executed for something that you did, nor can you be executed for something that I did.

So let’s put this into perspective: Situation A) I am taking a math test and I inadvertently write 2+2=5, when I meant to write 2+2-4 – that is a ḥit or ḥata, and there is a sacrifice to atone for that, even though it does not specifically require blood from any living thing; Situation B) I am starving to death and have no access to food or money, so I shoplift a loaf of bread; when able I must provide the shopkeeper with 120% of the value of what I stole and beg his forgiveness, there is no sacrifice or offering to atone for that; Situation C) My next door neighbor had a party and filled my driveway with his guests, so I went next door and murdered him; penalty is death, no sacrifice can atone for that.

No one can atone for anyone’s violations of God’s commands except for the one and only person who committed the offence. Therefore the entire concept behind chr-stianity is nothing more than a big farce.

 

[musterion]

Another thing I thought I would chime in on is the bloodthirsty chr-stian notion that only blood can atone for sin. Where do they get this ridiculous idea?

Lev 17:11

Good job calling almighty God ridiculous.

 

[Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov]

Okay, douche nozzle, how does the prohibition against blood signify that blood had anything to do with the forgiveness of any kind of sin???

 

[TweetyBird]

Jeremiah 31:31: "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah."

Paul explained the Sinatic covenant did not replace or modify God's covenant with Abraham.

Galatians 3:17: "And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect."

Galatians 3:15: "Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it."

The Sinaitic covenant is totally separate and distinct from the covenant with Abraham that was confirmed by Christ."

The significance of this is that the new covenant with Israel and Judah is not a covenant with Gentiles. The Gentiles were by definition not of the house of Israel or the house of Judah. The only relationship God has with Gentiles is through Abraham and his Seed.

Galatians 3:16: "Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, 'And to seeds' as of many, but as of one, 'And to your Seed' who is Christ."

Galatians 3:8: "And the Scripture foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand saying, 'In you all the nations shall be blessed.'" So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Galatians 3:29: "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise."

If a person is not Abraham's seed, then the person is not of Christ.

The Abrahamic Covenant is part of or was absorbed into the Mosaic/Sianic Covenant. In the NT there is only one covenant referred to, inclusive of both, just as it was throughout the Tanakh. It was all fulfilled in Christ, fully and completely with His death and resurrection. Gal 3 and 4 show how Jesus fulfilled it. Paul was given the mystery of the Gospel and of Jer 31:31-33 - and explained in Heb 8, 9, 10.

 

[TweetyBird]

I just showed you from the scripture some of what the will of Elohim concerns; with your response here above, I can now only assume that you reject the testimony of Paul and the author of Hebrews.

The promise of eternal life is not contingent upon the works of mankind. It is solely by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. You are moving the goal posts. It's not about what we do, it's what Jesus has done in and through us. A commitment to Him when one believes is the source of all righteousness, not of ourselves, but because of Him. The thief on the cross was saved and given eternal life the moment he believed, he did not need to perform for God in order to be accepted by Him.

That is a false statement concerning the teachings and Testimony of Yeshua. Yeshua is the one prophesied by and through Moshe, that Prophet like unto Moshe, (Deuteronomy 18), who was to come. The Testimony of Yeshua expounds Torah, Prophets, and Writings, all of Tanach, or at least everything one needs to know to understand and walk it.

Jesus did not teach Torah. His teachings were brand new. He preached the Kingdom of Heaven, not the Law of Moses. He came to open the doors to His household. Moses was the old house - small and over run with curses. Jesus house/household is full of Life, Truth, Living Water, Manna from Heaven, Eternal life, Glory upon Glory now and forevermore.

Your ignorance of supernal things with supernal meanings is not on my account.

It is you that changed the meaning, not me.

Posting a mountain of scripture does you no good when you do not understand what it all means. And what is the final passage quote from 1John 2:22-25 supposed to mean to me in the context of what we were talking about? Are you suggesting that if I do not agree with you then that makes me an antichrist? Why from those of your mindset does it always come down to a misuse of the scripture as a weapon to strike out against those with whom you disagree? Typically this occurs when someone gets frustrated, having no argument, or having been shown to have no argument to begin with. :crackup:

My defense is God's written Word. It says all that is necessary. I chose those verses specifically in response to your post. If you do not understand the connection, then perhaps the Holy Spirit can guide you through it.

 

[patrick jane]

Okay, douche nozzle, how does the prohibition against blood signify that blood had anything to do with the forgiveness of any kind of sin???

Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV - Colossians 1:20 KJV -

 

[Prizebeatz1]

What about our interpretation of the law of the Lord? The interpretation certainly is not perfect especially when it throws out the most important piece which is the soul.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[TweetyBird]

Okay, xxxxx xxxxx, how does the prohibition against blood signify that blood had anything to do with the forgiveness of any kind of sin???

Because .... wait for it ....:drum: ... life is in the blood. Blood was for the atonement of sin.

Leviticus 17
10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people. 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. 12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

Leviticus 16:27
And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering [H2403], whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.


Exodus 30:10
And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the Lord.


H2403 חטּאת חטּאה - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon Number

חטּאת חטּאה
chaṭṭâ'âh chaṭṭâ'th
khat-taw-aw', khat-tawth'
From H2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender



Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions

H 2403
חטּאת חטּאה
chaṭṭâ'âh chaṭṭâ'th


1. sin, sinful
2. sin, sin offering
a. sin
b. condition of sin, guilt of sin
c. punishment for sin
d. sin-offering
e. purification from sins of ceremonial uncleanness
Origin: from H2398


Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions

H2398
châṭâ'
חטא

1. to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness
a. (Qal)
1. to miss
2. to sin, miss the goal or path of right and duty
3. to incur guilt, incur penalty by sin, forfeit
b. (Piel)
1. to bear loss
2. to make a sin-offering
3. to purify from sin
4. to purify from uncleanness
c. (Hiphil)
1. to miss the mark
2. to induce to sin, cause to sin
3. to bring into guilt or condemnation or punishment
d. (Hithpael)
1. to miss oneself, lose oneself, wander from the way
2. to purify oneself from uncleanness
Origin: a primitive root

 

[jamie]

The Abrahamic Covenant is part of or was absorbed into the Mosaic/Sianic Covenant. In the NT there is only one covenant referred to, inclusive of both, just as it was throughout the Tanakh.

Are you saying the Abrahamic covenant was set aside?

Galatians 3:15 NASB: "Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations, even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it."

The provisions of the Mosaic covenant were not added to the Abrahamic covenant according to Paul. I realize you claim differently, but I go with Paul.

 

[TweetyBird]

Are you saying the Abrahamic covenant was set aside?

Galatians 3:15 NASB: "Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations, even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it."

The provisions of the Mosaic covenant were not added to the Abrahamic covenant according to Paul. I realize you claim differently, but I go with Paul.

I stated quite clearly that the Abrahamic Covenant was part of the Mosaic Covenent and included within it as shown in Scripture. Paul even states this in Gal 3!. Circumcision was the sign given to Abraham and included into the Mosaic covenant.

Jesus said:

John 7:22
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Please read the context of Gal 3 - you are confusing yourself.

Gal 3
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Kott]

Psalm 19

The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the Lord are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is pure,
enduring forever.
The decrees of the Lord are firm,
and all of them are righteous.
10 They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the honeycomb.​

So let's let up on how evil and impossible God's law is!

Thanks,

Chair

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect,
even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[jamie]

I stated quite clearly that the Abrahamic Covenant was part of the Mosaic Covenent and included within it as shown in Scripture.

I think we all know better. You're saying the opposite of what Paul said in your quote.

Deuteronomy 4:2: "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

The law cannot be modified.

 

[Mark M]

What about our interpretation of the law of the Lord? The interpretation certainly is not perfect especially when it throws out the most important piece which is the soul.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

It's all about the blood of Jesus Christ.

Sent from my Coolpad 3320A using Tapatalk

 

[jamie]

What about our interpretation of the law of the Lord? The interpretation certainly is not perfect especially when it throws out the most important piece which is the soul.

Soul comes from the Greek psuche from which we get psyche. Our psyche is our soul, it's who we are.

 

[Bradley D]

How was Jesus able to keep the law?

Because Jesus was sinless.

"It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God" (1 Peter 1:19).

 

[jamie]

Because Jesus was sinless.

What enabled Jesus to be sinless?

 

[Selaphiel]

Psalm 19

The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the Lord are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is pure,
enduring forever.
The decrees of the Lord are firm,
and all of them are righteous.
10 They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the honeycomb.​

So let's let up on how evil and impossible God's law is!

Thanks,

Chair

I won't engage in battle of scripture quotations. I agree with you that the law is presented that way in the Old testament. I agree with you that of course there was forgiveness for violating commandments in the Old testaments (one cannot read the prophets without noticing a rather generous divine forgiveness). I will rather approach this by setting forth a theological response.

The law is not evil according to Christianity. Paul calls it holy and righteous. It is not even that it is impossible to follow the law in some methodological one by one form.
A more Christian systematic theological approach to the issue is that the law is corruptible. Man twists the law (this is not just about Jewish law, but any moral or judicial law in general). The law itself falls under the power of sin, it is slavishly followed or abused in ways that forgets the sum of the law which reveals the point of the law.

This naive theology that Christ is just some blood offering coming from the sky so God can sate his own wrath is simplified to the point of being both absolutely erroneous and theologically abhorrent. The victory over sin is in the resurrection, not in the violence on the cross. The violence of the cross is the culmination of sin,. In Christian theology (at least in reflective modern Protestant theology) the cross is a revelation of sin,to the point of revealing an absolute diastesis between God and man. Thus the resurrection in Christian theology is victory over mans sin, because even in complete separation between man and God (mankind killing God himself according to Christian theology, forgiveness and new life is still the response: Thus sin and death in the even the most absolute way of deicide is shown to be impotent in the face of God's love and forgiveness. In this sense it is a continuation of the God revealed by the prophets (even if you disagree that the cross was deicide). I owe a lot to the man I have as my avatar when it comes to understanding the prophets.

It is where the laws of man fails (this is why Traditio's Judge Dredd and philosopher king fantasies are so utterly naive according to Christian theology): A righteous man is condemned and executed on a cross. He is condemned and executed by Roman laws (for the temple event) and by Jewish law for a charge of blasphemy, he is charged by folk morality and popular opinion (the crowd who chooses the militarist rebel Barabbas over Jesus). Law and morality as well as folk opinion (democracy if you like) reveals its impotence when it in a systematic fashion falls under the power of human sin. The essence of sin according to Christian theology is not breaking one or more commandments, sin is structural, anthropological and even cosmological. Sin is that man is defined, in the words of Luther, as: homo incurvatus se: Man curved inwards towards himself.

:e4e: