The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[Caino]

Truthful celestial beings don't deny God being the author of the holy Scriptures.


The Urantia Book*proclaims a different God, a different Jesus, and a different Gospel than the Bible. Its message, allegedly revealed by higher spiritual beings, is fundamentally at odds with biblical Christianity. In light of this, it’s sobering to think of all the biblical warnings about lying and deceptive spirits (e.g. 1 Kings 22:22-23; John 8:44; 1 Tim. 4:1; Rev. 20:7-10).

The doctrine of the infallibility of the scripture is not even in the scripture, it's in the minds of controlling men. So called biblical Christianity has thousands of doctrines that disagree with each other. You are like the thick headed Jews who rejected Jesus on the same grounds. Today they are still here on this forum denying Jesus. A new revelation has come which makes much more sense than cobbling 66 books together and then pounding square pegs into round holes. An entire religion of apologetics has been invented to explain the many errors.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The doctrine of the infallibility of the scripture is not even in the scripture, it's in the minds of controlling men. So called biblical Christianity has thousands of doctrines that disagree with each other. You are like the thick headed Jews who rejected Jesus on the same grounds. Today they are still here on this forum denying Jesus. A new revelation has come which makes much more sense than cobbling 66 books together and then pounding square pegs into round holes. An entire religion of apologetics has been invented to explain the many errors.

:rotfl:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I think your creating a false enemy or presumption. As I've clarified quite amply already, you cannot put 'God' in a box. What is infinite, is infinite, unbounded, without limits, outside of space and time, yet includes all space and time. You're not interested in exploring or venturing outside of your little dogmatic cubicle.

I accept truth wherever it is found, and do no limit it to any one book or collection of books. It is the Spirit that gives life, ...not a book. Books are instrumental of course, to share the logos of the Spirit, but they are just words.

Life is ever unfolding, consciousness is evolving.

There is such a thing as 'progressive revelation'.

I think we've been over this many times before - maybe it will sink in soon

:rotfl:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Don't get me wrong Caino and Freelight, TulipBee is way off the mark, as well. He/She is a card-carrying Calvinist, which to my way of thinking is a Cult. You two are basically, Occultists/Spiritualists.

 

[TulipBee]

I think your creating a false enemy or presumption. As I've clarified quite amply already, you cannot put 'God' in a box. What is infinite, is infinite, unbounded, without limits, outside of space and time, yet includes all space and time. You're not interested in exploring or venturing outside of your little dogmatic cubicle.

I accept truth wherever it is found, and do no limit it to any one book or collection of books. It is the Spirit that gives life, ...not a book. Books are instrumental of course, to share the logos of the Spirit, but they are just words.

Life is ever unfolding, consciousness is evolving.

There is such a thing as 'progressive revelation'.

I think we've been over this many times before - maybe it will sink in soon

False celestials will never sink in Christians. If they deny the God's words they failed the test. You deny the Bible cause dumb celestials told you to.

 

[TulipBee]

The doctrine of the infallibility of the scripture is not even in the scripture, it's in the minds of controlling men. So called biblical Christianity has thousands of doctrines that disagree with each other. You are like the thick headed Jews who rejected Jesus on the same grounds. Today they are still here on this forum denying Jesus. A new revelation has come which makes much more sense than cobbling 66 books together and then pounding square pegs into round holes. An entire religion of apologetics has been invented to explain the many errors.

Holy spirit forced the pens to move. You told the holy spirit is full of errors

 

[Caino]

Holy spirit forced the pens to move. You told the holy spirit is full of errors

You told the holy spirit he writes books with errors in them, it's your problem that you bought into such a superstition. Remember, the shaming and manipulation that worked on you doesn't work on everybody.

 

[Lon]

The UB curiously does not claim 'inspiration' for its cosmology, but it apparently is an expanded revelation of cosmology, nonetheless.

lain: Kind of like the "burning in the bosom." Chase after the wind all you desire, but there is nothing on this wind. I've read a good portion of your document. Not only have I given accounts of such shoddy work in this pointless behemoth thread, I've repeatedly deduced my observations of its lack for you. This thread holds no interest to me. In fact, I'm done for awhile. What DOES hold interest to me is two waywards needing the gospel of Christ that both of you eschew. God gets to dictate, by virtue of His being, what is true.

 

[Lon]

Straw man. I have read the Bible, some of it's true, some of its conjecture and speculation based real events. Some of it is vast exaggeration and or untrue. All things considered the Bible is what we should expect it to be.

Right, your god is incapable of men walking on water or feeding 5 thousand. :sigh:

The author of Timothy didn't claim that his or her opinion was "scripture", they were just writing a letter. It was the church that later decided that, not only were their councils inerrant, but any book that they decided to put into their cannon was inerrant.

Peter claimed all of Paul's writings were scripture. You are woefully ignorant and speculating to enshrine your pet peeves. Face this: You and PJ prefer your whims to truth. Realization has to be a motive for being corrected by God.

Underneath all of that huffing and puffing you are sincere in what you believe.

No huffing and puffing. They are words designed to produce careful thought. I am sincere thus, in what I believe and what I say. That much, with the correction, would be true.

The doctrine of the infallibility of the scripture is not even in the scripture, it's in the minds of controlling men. So called biblical Christianity has thousands of doctrines that disagree with each other. You are like the thick headed Jews who rejected Jesus on the same grounds. Today they are still here on this forum denying Jesus. A new revelation has come which makes much more sense than cobbling 66 books together and then pounding square pegs into round holes. An entire religion of apologetics has been invented to explain the many errors.

:nono: It makes sense. Read the NT more. Jesus said to listen to what they (Pharisees) said, not do what they did and told the Samaritan Salvation was 'of the Jews.' Don't be thick or buy uncritically whatever catches your fancy. ALL you are doing in the end, is promulgating your preference rather than what is objectively true.

 

[freelight]

Examine all treasures in the treasure house, sort thru them wisely.......

Examine all treasures in the treasure house, sort thru them wisely.......

False celestials will never sink in Christians. If they deny the God's words they failed the test. You deny the Bible cause dumb celestials told you to.

Any imperfection, errors or contradictions found in the Bible are a matter of apparent and scholarly observation, not just because a group of celestials or angels affirmed such, since any sincere investigator can discover such for himself with adequate research. We might remind readers as well, that it is those continually 'asserting' the infallibility or finality of the Bible that are harping about it, while this thread simply presents an alternative view, an expansion or greater revelation of religious truth and cosmology for this dispensation. There is no focus really of "denying the bible" other than what apologists here are shouting from the sidelines,...the subject is the research, consideration and exploration of the material, its meaning and value.

Jesus discourse on the scriptures with Nathaniel has been shared many times here, if you'd like to address the specifics shared in that discourse, we can explore that. I find nothing wrong or irrational in such a discourse, since the same affirms whatever truth the 'scriptures' contain, minus the human inventions, mythology or embellishments therein. Its a matter of accepting facts and the imperfection of human interface, which naturally brings distortions in one form or another. We acknowledge those imperfections or outright forgeries wherever they might exist in whatever books, but also any true wisdom or inspiration that they may also contain. This position is rather clear for those continuing to sport their doctrine of 'exclusive revelation' or 'biblical inerrancy'. Its really unnecessary.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

How're your "Little green men in their shiny UFOs" doing, Freelight? Have you taken any "Ride alongs" lately?

 

[freelight]

No burning bosoms....just intellectual and spiritual expansion...............

No burning bosoms....just intellectual and spiritual expansion...............

lain: Kind of like the "burning in the bosom."

Sorry to disappoint you Lon,...no "burning in the bosoms" required - Mormonism has no relationship to the UB.

Chase after the wind all you desire, but there is nothing on this wind. I've read a good portion of your document. Not only have I given accounts of such shoddy work in this pointless behemoth thread, I've repeatedly deduced my observations of its lack for you.

You've read a few portions from what I've observed, and criticized mostly on some passages in Part 4 of the life of Jesus, the juvenile style of grammar used, etc. The tome is over 2,000 pages and has some amazing dissertations on the cosmology, creation and organization of the Grand Universe, the nature of Deity, man's relationship to Deity, angelic orders, etc. Until you've actually read the first 12 papers,...I cannot accept that you have a grasp of the basic theology of the UB, to say nothing of the many other subjects it expounds on, some of whats been covered on the thread so far. So,...its back to square one and your biased pre-judgments about an entire book based on a few passages that didn't fit your bar of expectations.

This thread holds no interest to me. In fact, I'm done for awhile.

:crackup:

Oh boy,...but you cant resist coming back to drop your critiques and check out how things are going in such an awe inspiring thread - and don't forget, this section is about discussion on the subject of 'Religion' and its various artifacts, different views and perspectives. This includes books like the Urantia Book, whose claims in the area in religion, science and philosophy has significance.

What DOES hold interest to me is two waywards needing the gospel of Christ that both of you eschew.

Part 4 and all the teachings of Jesus therein clearly and exponentially proclaim with clarity and great elaboration, the gospel of the kingdom of God, which includes the spiritual rebirth and awakening of the soul to its relationship with God as 'Our Father', bringing into realization our 'sonship' with God, - remember the foundation is 'The Fatherhood of God & Brotherhood of Man'. The UB presents as being true to Jesus, the gospel that Jesus taught, NOT necessarily any gospels that came after him that were merely ABOUT him, mixed with other concepts, theories and mythology. Remember,....its about promoting the religion OF Jesus, not just a religion ABOUT Jesus. In this context the papers refer to this gospel as 'Jesusonian'. There are 5 reference to the term 'Jesusonian' here for any interested in understanding the term.

God gets to dictate, by virtue of His being, what is true.

But that's your opinion that 'God' has dictated anything, and that by accepting a book that is being interpreted for claiming such, an 'interpretation' that is debatable. The peculiar thing is you have an OT, and a NT lumped onto what is made into the Christian 'Bible', while traditional orthodox Jews reject such an addition to their scriptures, and there is are NT believers who reject a good portion of what the OT contains, but still include it as their 'foundation' upon which to piggypack, all the while accepting the NT as a "new revelation", "covenant" or 'dispensation'. So even here you see 'progressive revelation' at work,...dividing religious sects, setting them apart from each other. As we consider the whole of cosmic evolution and man's spiritual progress,...there will naturally be greater unfoldings or dispensations of revelation appearing...so that previous dispensations are augmented or replaced by new ones. Religious truths and principles still hold, but they are being expanded upon, appropriate to man's needs and level of development as these unfold in time. Such is the nature of things.

 

[freelight]

Holy spirit forced the pens to move. You told the holy spirit is full of errors

Holy spirit or any other quality of spirit can influence the pen of writers,....you have to take into account many different conditional factors that may modify or affect such transmissions. Hence we have not only the quality of the writing itself, but the means by which it is interpretated,....and more. Its just not a black or white affair, since Light includes every facet and reflection of colour and resonance.

 

[Caino]

Right, your god is incapable of men walking on water or feeding 5 thousand. :sigh:

Peter claimed all of Paul's writings were scripture. You are woefully ignorant and speculating to enshrine your pet peeves. Face this: You and PJ prefer your whims to truth. Realization has to be a motive for being corrected by God.

No huffing and puffing. They are words designed to produce careful thought. I am sincere thus, in what I believe and what I say. That much, with the correction, would be true.
:nono: It makes sense. Read the NT more. Jesus said to listen to what they (Pharisees) said, not do what they did and told the Samaritan Salvation was 'of the Jews.' Don't be thick or buy uncritically whatever catches your fancy. ALL you are doing in the end, is promulgating your preference rather than what is objectively true.

In the more accurate UB story Jesus did feed the 5,000, but the walking on water silliness was a dream Peter had. If you had actually read the Jesus story in the UB you would know that. Also the demons into swine episode was erroneous as well, the Kesaria lunatic was helped with his emotional problems. He had assumed his mental problems were the result of demonic possession, so he truly believed Jesus had healed him so he went about claiming his demons went into a heard of pigs which had been spooked by dogs into going over a cliff.

I've read the NT, it more or less contains sufficient truth which can lead one to Christ. The UB story came from celestials who were on the earth when Jesus was here. The UB was sent as a gift to us, it will be the bible of the future.

Just as you were bullied by the doctrine of the perfection of the scripture, you are using the same approach with us. It doesn't work. I grew up listening to unthinking preachers teaching YEC, Noah's ubserdity and the ISIS like concept of the God created in the Jews image. Human speculation, conjecture and nationalist egotism.

 

[TulipBee]

You told the holy spirit he writes books with errors in them, it's your problem that you bought into such a superstition. Remember, the shaming and manipulation that worked on you doesn't work on everybody.

Holy spirit doesn't make errors

 

[TulipBee]

Holy spirit or any other quality of spirit can influence the pen of writers,....you have to take into account many different conditional factors that may modify or affect such transmissions. Hence we have not only the quality of the writing itself, but the means by which it is interpretated,....and more. Its just not a black or white affair, since Light includes every facet and reflection of colour and resonance.

Originals don't need modifying.

 

[Caino]

Holy spirit doesn't make errors

I agree, that's why we can tell that the Bible books weren't written by God.

The doctrine of inerrancy leads people to become intolerant, bigoted and stunted in spiritual and intellectual growth.

The doctrine of inerrancy is of the world.

"And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures."

“But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest."

 

[Caino]

"Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom."

 

[Caino]

Having the actual record in hand now of what Jesus actually said and did we can compare the writings of the gospels in order to illuminate confusion.

Peters confession.


As they paused for lunch, Jesus suddenly confronted the twelve with the first question he had ever addressed to them concerning himself. He asked this surprising question, “Who do men say that I am?”

157:3.4 Jesus had spent long months in training these apostles as to the nature and character of the kingdom of heaven, and he well knew the time had come when he must begin to teach them more about his own nature and his personal relationship to the kingdom. And now, as they were seated under the mulberry trees, the Master made ready to hold one of the most momentous sessions of his long association with the chosen apostles.

157:3.5 More than half the apostles participated in answering Jesus' question. They told him that he was regarded as a prophet or as an extraordinary man by all who knew him; that even his enemies greatly feared him, accounting for his powers by the indictment that he was in league with the prince of devils. They told him that some in Judea and Samaria who had not met him personally believed he was John the Baptist risen from the dead. Peter explained that he had been, at sundry times and by various persons, compared with Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, and Jeremiah. When Jesus had listened to this report, he drew himself upon his feet, and looking down upon the twelve sitting about him in a semicircle, with startling emphasis he pointed to them with a sweeping gesture of his hand and asked, “But who say you that I am?” There was a moment of tense silence. The twelve never took their eyes off the Master, and then Simon Peter, springing to his feet, exclaimed: “You are the Deliverer, the Son of the living God.” And the eleven sitting apostles arose to their feet with one accord, thereby indicating that Peter had spoken for all of them.

157:3.6 When Jesus had beckoned them again to be seated, and while still standing before them, he said: “This has been revealed to you by my Father. The hour has come when you should know the truth about me. But for the time being I charge you that you tell this to no man. Let us go hence.”
157:3.7 And so they resumed their journey to Caesarea Philippi arriving late that evening and stopping at the home of Celsus, who was expecting them. The apostles slept little that night; they seemed to sense that a great event in their lives and in the work of the kingdom had transpired.


Cont>

 

[Caino]

THE TALK ABOUT THE KINGDOM



157:4.1 Since the occasions of Jesus' baptism by John and the turning of the water into wine at Cana, the apostles had, at various times, virtually accepted him as the Messiah. For short periods some of them had truly believed that he was the expected Deliverer. But hardly would such hopes spring up in their hearts than the Master would dash them to pieces by some crushing word or disappointing deed. They had long been in a state of turmoil due to conflict between the concepts of the expected Messiah which they held in their minds and the experience of their extraordinary association with this extraordinary man which they held in their hearts.

157:4.2 It was late forenoon on this Wednesday when the apostles assembled in Celsus' garden for their noontime meal. During most of the night and since they had arisen that morning, Simon Peter and Simon Zelotes had been earnestly laboring with their brethren to bring them all to the point of the wholehearted acceptance of the Master, not merely as the Messiah, but also as the divine Son of the living God. The two Simons were well-nigh agreed in their estimate of Jesus, and they labored diligently to bring their brethren around to the full acceptance of their views. While Andrew continued as the director-general of the apostolic corps, his brother, Simon Peter, was becoming, increasingly and by common consent, the spokesman for the twelve.

157:4.3 They were all seated in the garden at just about noon when the Master appeared. They wore expressions of dignified solemnity, and all arose to their feet as he approached them. Jesus relieved the tension by that friendly and fraternal smile which was so characteristic of him when his followers took themselves, or some happening related to themselves, too seriously. With a commanding gesture he indicated that they should be seated. Never again did the twelve greet their Master by arising when he came into their presence. They saw that he did not approve of such an outward show of respect.



157:4.4 After they had partaken of their meal and were engaged in discussing plans for the forthcoming tour of the Decapolis, Jesus suddenly looked up into their faces and said: “Now that a full day has passed since you assented to Simon Peter's declaration regarding the identity of the Son of Man, I would ask if you still hold to your decision?” On hearing this, the twelve stood upon their feet, and Simon Peter, stepping a few paces forward toward Jesus, said: “Yes, Master, we do. We believe that you are the Son of the living God.” And Peter sat down with his brethren.

157:4.5 Jesus, still standing, then said to the twelve: “You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father's kingdom. All the forces of evil and the hosts of sin shall not prevail against this human fraternity of the divine spirit. And while my Father's spirit shall ever be the divine guide and mentor of all who enter the bonds of this spirit fellowship, to you and your successors I now deliver the keys of the outward kingdom—the authority over things temporal—the social and economic features of this association of men and women as fellows of the kingdom.” And again he charged them, for the time being, that they should tell no man that he was the Son of God.