Truth comes from the right spirit
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
God is Spirit.......nothing can be apart from God
God is Spirit.......nothing can be apart from God
There is only One eternal, infinite, universal and divine Spirit-source and LIFE, from which all existence, and all sentient beings (spirits/souls) originate from and by whose power and presence they live, move and have their being. Nothing has total independence from the root-source and substratum that upholds and contains all, as much as nothing can have life or being apart from God.
Concerning 'truth', we have to consider that our perception and recognition of 'truth' is relative and changing, as God and the cosmos is ever unfolding, expanding and engaging within the influx and culmination of creation in space and time, so 'truth' as any individual point of consciousness perceives it, will be relative to that point in space-time, so realized within that 'context-parameter',...while an individual point of consciousness in another sector of the cosmos will perceive a different nuance, degree or intensity of truth per its conditional frame of reference. Truth is living, fluxual, dynamic, and relative to any finite mind perceiving within any given point in space-time, as long as perception is 'conditional' it will remain so.
If we consider Absolute Reality, this kind can be realized only from an absolute point of view ( the Absolute Itself), prior to space or time, within its own perfect timeless essence, with no relation to any other being or thing, wholly independent. On this absolute level of reality, we can assume the absolute itself, and only IT, is truly ever absolute. All else is relative! - and must be so as it is conditioned by space-time perception and relativity.
~*~*~
See- Relativity of concept frames
Important -
- full context here
God is Spirit.......nothing can be apart from God
There is only One eternal, infinite, universal and divine Spirit-source and LIFE, from which all existence, and all sentient beings (spirits/souls) originate from and by whose power and presence they live, move and have their being. Nothing has total independence from the root-source and substratum that upholds and contains all, as much as nothing can have life or being apart from God.
Concerning 'truth', we have to consider that our perception and recognition of 'truth' is relative and changing, as God and the cosmos is ever unfolding, expanding and engaging within the influx and culmination of creation in space and time, so 'truth' as any individual point of consciousness perceives it, will be relative to that point in space-time, so realized within that 'context-parameter',...while an individual point of consciousness in another sector of the cosmos will perceive a different nuance, degree or intensity of truth per its conditional frame of reference. Truth is living, fluxual, dynamic, and relative to any finite mind perceiving within any given point in space-time, as long as perception is 'conditional' it will remain so.
If we consider Absolute Reality, this kind can be realized only from an absolute point of view ( the Absolute Itself), prior to space or time, within its own perfect timeless essence, with no relation to any other being or thing, wholly independent. On this absolute level of reality, we can assume the absolute itself, and only IT, is truly ever absolute. All else is relative! - and must be so as it is conditioned by space-time perception and relativity.
~*~*~
See- Relativity of concept frames
Important -
- full context here
You try so hard but theres no way out in claiming the Bible is full of errors when God is the one who lead the pens of the writers. Once you said it has errors, you got screwed by the ub . The devil didn't have to try hard on you.
The static theory that God wrote the Bible Idol is of worldly origin. Jesus left no writings.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
God uses human vessels......
God uses human vessels......
Yep,....men of varying degrees of receptivity, purity and knowledge (plus with various intentions) WROTE and chronicled the books in the Bible. A NT did not even exist while Jesus and his original 12 apostles were alive. Unfortunately Jesus himself left no writing which is peculiar....except in the sand. Any truth he taught would be like the rock, an eternal rock upon which the truth of the kingdom would be established, hence his gospel carries on.
God uses human vessels......
Yep,....men of varying degrees of receptivity, purity and knowledge (plus with various intentions) WROTE and chronicled the books in the Bible. A NT did not even exist while Jesus and his original 12 apostles were alive. Unfortunately Jesus himself left no writing which is peculiar....except in the sand. Any truth he taught would be like the rock, an eternal rock upon which the truth of the kingdom would be established, hence his gospel carries on.
Lon
Well-known member
Er, no. Please think. Read what you are completely ignorant of, and think again. This is just mindless assertion on your part.
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: Again, you both are woefully ignorant of what scripture actually claims. "Men moved along by the Spirit..." etc. You guys are simply excusing your willful ignorance and speaking completely from ignorance. Again, you are both responsible for what is true, whether you like it or not. Stop, however, trying to promulgate false perceptions of what you are both clearly ignorant of. The Bible DOES claim God's Penmanship.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Inspiration and revelation.....
Inspiration and revelation.....
My former statement stands. We were discussing what the UB claims about itself,....using its own terms of how it defines 'inspiration' and 'revelation'. The UB curiously does not claim 'inspiration' for its cosmology, but it apparently is an expanded revelation of cosmology, nonetheless. I have not denied that any chapter in a collection of books MAY BE more or less inspired, or that inspiration in some form can also be called a 'revelation. Also Caino and I may disagree respectfully on any number of religious beliefs or perspectives,....I'm very eclectic. Our resonance is in that we have both studied the UB or find some obviously interesting, meaningful and valuable ideals, principles and concepts in the book. Caino would seem to be much more faithful to the UB narratives as the latest revelation of truth, while I may be more liberal, syncretic or all-inclusive, since I glean and explore other religious and philosophical schools and cultures. For me, its all about the exploration or expansion of CONSCIOUSNESS. This is all, since consciousness is all.
On that note, I'm well aware of certain passages that claim 'scriptures' are 'God-breathed' (inspired) etc. I do not however accept the Bible alone is wholly inerrant, infallible,...neither that it is the complete, perfect or FINAL revelation of God. I've shared my reasons for holding such a view. This does not mean I reject any truth found in the Bible, or deny its historical importance, spiritual truth content, etc.
You cant put 'God' (The IFNINITE) in a little 'box'. You cannot bottle such an infinite Spirit and then put a label on your bottle, and say this all the 'God' there is, or say "this is God". 'God' is infinite. Truth or wisdom is wherever you find it, and I've found a lot in much of the world's religious traditions and their writings as well.
Inspiration and revelation.....
My former statement stands. We were discussing what the UB claims about itself,....using its own terms of how it defines 'inspiration' and 'revelation'. The UB curiously does not claim 'inspiration' for its cosmology, but it apparently is an expanded revelation of cosmology, nonetheless. I have not denied that any chapter in a collection of books MAY BE more or less inspired, or that inspiration in some form can also be called a 'revelation. Also Caino and I may disagree respectfully on any number of religious beliefs or perspectives,....I'm very eclectic. Our resonance is in that we have both studied the UB or find some obviously interesting, meaningful and valuable ideals, principles and concepts in the book. Caino would seem to be much more faithful to the UB narratives as the latest revelation of truth, while I may be more liberal, syncretic or all-inclusive, since I glean and explore other religious and philosophical schools and cultures. For me, its all about the exploration or expansion of CONSCIOUSNESS. This is all, since consciousness is all.
On that note, I'm well aware of certain passages that claim 'scriptures' are 'God-breathed' (inspired) etc. I do not however accept the Bible alone is wholly inerrant, infallible,...neither that it is the complete, perfect or FINAL revelation of God. I've shared my reasons for holding such a view. This does not mean I reject any truth found in the Bible, or deny its historical importance, spiritual truth content, etc.
You cant put 'God' (The IFNINITE) in a little 'box'. You cannot bottle such an infinite Spirit and then put a label on your bottle, and say this all the 'God' there is, or say "this is God". 'God' is infinite. Truth or wisdom is wherever you find it, and I've found a lot in much of the world's religious traditions and their writings as well.
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
God is Greater........
God is Greater........
That is something that is a religious 'belief', when on an another level there is no reason to assume that your own preferred religious book is wholly inerrant. Not even the UB claims to be inerrant, complete, perfect or the FINAL revelation of God. It does present itself as the 5th Epochal Revelation to the planet. Jesus was the 4th. However, since there is 'progressive revelation' (remember that concept?)....it will not be the 'final' revelation or dispensation of truth to our world. Is not the Spirit of truth still actively teaching, leading and guiding us into all truth? Did the Spirit cease its activity? :think:
I AM doing quite fine, as I AM
I don't focus on 'errors', but am open to be enlightened if any concept, theory, belief or opinion might be erroneous. If I'm not open to consider that, how can I learn or prosper in truth? I see no reason to have a belief that the Bible is infallible. The UB is a significant and most intereting collection of papers, whose contents speak for itself....just as well as any other religious volume or revelation. Some books may however be more or less inspired, and some newer revelation may be more pertinent to our modern times, in accord to where we are now at in our spiritual evolution.
I'm afraid you give too much credit to the devil
I happen to give more to 'God' who is actually omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent
The devil aint.
:thumb:
God is Greater........
That is something that is a religious 'belief', when on an another level there is no reason to assume that your own preferred religious book is wholly inerrant. Not even the UB claims to be inerrant, complete, perfect or the FINAL revelation of God. It does present itself as the 5th Epochal Revelation to the planet. Jesus was the 4th. However, since there is 'progressive revelation' (remember that concept?)....it will not be the 'final' revelation or dispensation of truth to our world. Is not the Spirit of truth still actively teaching, leading and guiding us into all truth? Did the Spirit cease its activity? :think:
I AM doing quite fine, as I AM
I don't focus on 'errors', but am open to be enlightened if any concept, theory, belief or opinion might be erroneous. If I'm not open to consider that, how can I learn or prosper in truth? I see no reason to have a belief that the Bible is infallible. The UB is a significant and most intereting collection of papers, whose contents speak for itself....just as well as any other religious volume or revelation. Some books may however be more or less inspired, and some newer revelation may be more pertinent to our modern times, in accord to where we are now at in our spiritual evolution.
I'm afraid you give too much credit to the devil
I happen to give more to 'God' who is actually omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent
The devil aint.
:thumb:
Holy spirit don't write to himself
You talk like an astrologer who always almost gets the answer. Your doubts will never get the truthThat is something that is a religious 'belief', when on an another level there is no reason to assume that your own preferred religious book is wholly inerrant. Not even the UB claims to be inerrant, complete, perfect or the FINAL revelation of God. It does present itself as the 5th Epochal Revelation to the planet. Jesus was the 4th. However, since there is 'progressive revelation' (remember that concept?)....it will not be the 'final' revelation or dispensation of truth to our world. Is not the Spirit of truth still actively teaching, leading and guiding us into all truth? Did the Spirit cease its activity? :think:
I AM doing quite fine, as I AM
I don't focus on 'errors', but am open to be enlightened if any concept, theory, belief or opinion might be erroneous. If I'm not open to consider that, how can I learn or prosper in truth? I see no reason to have a belief that the Bible is infallible. The UB is a significant and most intereting collection of papers, whose contents speak for itself....just as well as any other religious volume or revelation. Some books may however be more or less inspired, and some newer revelation may be more pertinent to our modern times, in accord to where we are now at in our spiritual evolution.
I'm afraid you give too much credit to the devil
I happen to give more to 'God' who is actually omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent
The devil aint.
:thumb:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Lets quietly and seriously reflect on what is being shared here....................
Lets quietly and seriously reflect on what is being shared here....................
Remember, truth is living, dynamic, having both 'existential' and 'experiential' attributes, it includes both the 'absolute' and 'relative' and must if we are to consider reality-totality. Review my last commentary here. Lets explore the relativity and flexibility of truth some more -
~*~*~
Lets not forget what is appearing as a recurring theme here, and quite rational/logical.....wherever your perception is conditioned by space or time, your perception of 'truth' or 'reality' is relative and limited to that conditional-context.
Lets quietly and seriously reflect on what is being shared here....................
Remember, truth is living, dynamic, having both 'existential' and 'experiential' attributes, it includes both the 'absolute' and 'relative' and must if we are to consider reality-totality. Review my last commentary here. Lets explore the relativity and flexibility of truth some more -
~*~*~
Lets not forget what is appearing as a recurring theme here, and quite rational/logical.....wherever your perception is conditioned by space or time, your perception of 'truth' or 'reality' is relative and limited to that conditional-context.
Straw man. I have read the Bible, some of it's true, some of its conjecture and speculation based real events. Some of it is vast exaggeration and or untrue. All things considered the Bible is what we should expect it to be.
The author of Timothy didn't claim that his or her opinion was "scripture", they were just writing a letter. It was the church that later decided that, not only were their councils inerrant, but any book that they decided to put into their cannon was inerrant.
Underneath all of that huffing and puffing you are sincere in what you believe.
137:2.9 They all remained overnight with Joseph in Jesus' boyhood home. The associates of Jesus little understood why their new-found teacher was so concerned with completely destroying every vestige of his writing which remained about the home in the form of the Ten Commandments and other mottoes and sayings. But this proceeding, together with the fact that they never saw him subsequently write—except upon the dust or in the sand—made a deep impression upon their minds.
159:4.6 “The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.
159:4.7 “The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.
159:4.8 “Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.
159:4.9 “But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scripture is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.
159:4.10 “But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations.”
159:4.7 “The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.
159:4.8 “Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.
159:4.9 “But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scripture is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.
159:4.10 “But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations.”
Truthful celestial beings don't deny God being the author of the holy Scriptures.
The Urantia Book*proclaims a different God, a different Jesus, and a different Gospel than the Bible. Its message, allegedly revealed by higher spiritual beings, is fundamentally at odds with biblical Christianity. In light of this, it’s sobering to think of all the biblical warnings about lying and deceptive spirits (e.g. 1 Kings 22:22-23; John 8:44; 1 Tim. 4:1; Rev. 20:7-10).
The Urantia Book*proclaims a different God, a different Jesus, and a different Gospel than the Bible. Its message, allegedly revealed by higher spiritual beings, is fundamentally at odds with biblical Christianity. In light of this, it’s sobering to think of all the biblical warnings about lying and deceptive spirits (e.g. 1 Kings 22:22-23; John 8:44; 1 Tim. 4:1; Rev. 20:7-10).
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
See again:
Jesus illuminates the scriptures
Celestial beings would agree with truths shared of past generations and illuminate or reveal more truth and better perspectives in the current time of their transmission. Hence the UB fully respects and acknowledges the rich heritage and scriptural traditions of former ages and cultures, but provides a new dispensation for this generation. A new dispensation by nature provides an expanded revelation, just the NT did to the OT, by adding itself onto the Torah. There are many orthodox Jews who do not agree with adding the NT onto their bible, but Christians did this nonetheless....therefore their bible does NOT include the added revelation to their Torah, since they reject it. Both Jews and Christians are at a disadvantage to deny further dispensations or reject an epochal revelation.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
I'd look at common universal truths.......
I'd look at common universal truths.......
They agree wholly that 'God' alone is the source of all truth, wisdom, light, knowledge, etc. There is only one True God who is over all, and who is all.
I don't see this, since there is only one God and Father of all, the Universal Father. God is One. It reveals a different Christology, yes...and expands on the nature of the Paradise Trinity, the divine hierarchy, cosmology, etc. Part 4 about Jesus and his gospel are very clear and expanded, it being perhaps the largest record on Jesus life and teachings extant. It speaks for itself,...there is nothing different in the essence and intention of Jesus gospel revealed from what the canonical gospels share, yet an even greater expansion and emphasis of truth, about the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man. Such truths are exemplary and ought to be celebrated, not rejected because one believes he has a monopoly on 'God' via his own religious belief-con-struct.
The essence of truth, goodness and beauty, the ethics of spiritual principle, religious practice and practical wisdom are echoed within its pages. Consider the meanings and values of religious truth presented, and it will speak for itself, of its positive and edifying nature, just like any other religious writing that contains truths and metaphors for higher living and spiritual striving. Don't forget, Jesus said "be ye perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect",...this presents a high ideal of spiritual striving to be like God, does it not?
Passages can be over dramafied. Gotta watch for that
I'd look at common universal truths.......
They agree wholly that 'God' alone is the source of all truth, wisdom, light, knowledge, etc. There is only one True God who is over all, and who is all.
I don't see this, since there is only one God and Father of all, the Universal Father. God is One. It reveals a different Christology, yes...and expands on the nature of the Paradise Trinity, the divine hierarchy, cosmology, etc. Part 4 about Jesus and his gospel are very clear and expanded, it being perhaps the largest record on Jesus life and teachings extant. It speaks for itself,...there is nothing different in the essence and intention of Jesus gospel revealed from what the canonical gospels share, yet an even greater expansion and emphasis of truth, about the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man. Such truths are exemplary and ought to be celebrated, not rejected because one believes he has a monopoly on 'God' via his own religious belief-con-struct.
The essence of truth, goodness and beauty, the ethics of spiritual principle, religious practice and practical wisdom are echoed within its pages. Consider the meanings and values of religious truth presented, and it will speak for itself, of its positive and edifying nature, just like any other religious writing that contains truths and metaphors for higher living and spiritual striving. Don't forget, Jesus said "be ye perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect",...this presents a high ideal of spiritual striving to be like God, does it not?
Passages can be over dramafied. Gotta watch for that
You deny the 66 book
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Love is the Law.......
Love is the Law.......
I think your creating a false enemy or presumption. As I've clarified quite amply already, you cannot put 'God' in a box. What is infinite, is infinite, unbounded, without limits, outside of space and time, yet includes all space and time. You're not interested in exploring or venturing outside of your little dogmatic cubicle.
I accept truth wherever it is found, and do no limit it to any one book or collection of books. It is the Spirit that gives life, ...not a book. Books are instrumental of course, to share the logos of the Spirit, but they are just words.
Life is ever unfolding, consciousness is evolving.
There is such a thing as 'progressive revelation'.
I think we've been over this many times before - maybe it will sink in soon
Love is the Law.......
I think your creating a false enemy or presumption. As I've clarified quite amply already, you cannot put 'God' in a box. What is infinite, is infinite, unbounded, without limits, outside of space and time, yet includes all space and time. You're not interested in exploring or venturing outside of your little dogmatic cubicle.
I accept truth wherever it is found, and do no limit it to any one book or collection of books. It is the Spirit that gives life, ...not a book. Books are instrumental of course, to share the logos of the Spirit, but they are just words.
Life is ever unfolding, consciousness is evolving.
There is such a thing as 'progressive revelation'.
I think we've been over this many times before
- maybe it will sink in soon - Status