My own religious event is God's own words, the Bible. The book you add or subtract too. Reject anything I add to. If you want to say Lucifer and jesus are one then leave me out of it.
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
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What you find may not be the truth.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Points to consider...........
Points to consider...........
You mean a collection of books written by men of different cultural time-periods and belief-systems that is believed by some religionists to be 'inspired'. As far as God's own words,....that's debatable, but the principles, meanings and values of such words is what we would consider in discussion. Man's religious experience is going on across the globe, souls experiencing LIFE in many different countries, cultures and religious traditions. These are all experiencing 'God'(life, truth, reality, consciousness) in their own individual ways, since you cannot live or breathe apart from the Infinite ONE. 'God' is the 'life' of one and all, there is nothing that can exist separate from his power or providence which upholds and sustains all.
A group of people thought to add 27 books (or more or less depending on your custom canonizing
) to the Jewish bible, so I guess they were innovators and pioneers in new religious thought too - which proves revelation is 'progressive'. Also, in the canonization process, books that were popular and regarded to have religious value and even be inspired, were NOT included in the finally standardized 'canon' for whatever reasons. We have the apocrypha, intertestamental works, gnostic gospels, and more that represent religious thought in those evolving time periods. I don't see how anyone can say that whats in the Bible is the FINAL, complete, inerrant and infallible 'word of God', since 'God' is INFINITE, and revelation is progressive as the Spirit of truth is ever leading, guiding and teaching those who are open to heed its leading.
Who is the source and creator of Lucifer and Jesus? Do they both not live and have conscious existence because of the Universal Father? Who is the Father of spirits? As far as all things and being being 'one' this is a matter of metaphysical or spiritual understanding of the source and substance of all things existing within space, which God is ever upholding and these personalities living by laws which allow for their existence and evolution (this includes the potentials of all good and evil, life and death, light and darkness). Nothing can exist outside of 'God'. So, you have to deal with these realities, within their respective contexts.
He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.
The UB however, has much info. about The Lucifer Rebellion so it plays with the biblical mythology employing the same characters in a cosmic drama which had consequences which our planetary system is still experiencing today, as some of the rebel angels will undergo judgment, awaiting adjudication before the heavenly tribunals. This world has had to deal with setbacks, which in some ways makes our planet a retarded one, but in other ways our planet is special and unique, since the Creator Son of this universe incarnated here and proclaimed the kingdom of God, then thru his resurrection won sovereign authority over the fallen angelic powers and possession of his realms, then poured out his Spirit of truth upon the mortals of the realm. Some details are different of course in this record than what is in the NT, but it all fits consistently within the cosmological context and eschatology revealed.
Points to consider...........
You mean a collection of books written by men of different cultural time-periods and belief-systems that is believed by some religionists to be 'inspired'. As far as God's own words,....that's debatable, but the principles, meanings and values of such words is what we would consider in discussion. Man's religious experience is going on across the globe, souls experiencing LIFE in many different countries, cultures and religious traditions. These are all experiencing 'God'(life, truth, reality, consciousness) in their own individual ways, since you cannot live or breathe apart from the Infinite ONE. 'God' is the 'life' of one and all, there is nothing that can exist separate from his power or providence which upholds and sustains all.
A group of people thought to add 27 books (or more or less depending on your custom canonizing
) to the Jewish bible, so I guess they were innovators and pioneers in new religious thought too - which proves revelation is 'progressive'. Also, in the canonization process, books that were popular and regarded to have religious value and even be inspired, were NOT included in the finally standardized 'canon' for whatever reasons. We have the apocrypha, intertestamental works, gnostic gospels, and more that represent religious thought in those evolving time periods. I don't see how anyone can say that whats in the Bible is the FINAL, complete, inerrant and infallible 'word of God', since 'God' is INFINITE, and revelation is progressive as the Spirit of truth is ever leading, guiding and teaching those who are open to heed its leading.Who is the source and creator of Lucifer and Jesus? Do they both not live and have conscious existence because of the Universal Father? Who is the Father of spirits? As far as all things and being being 'one' this is a matter of metaphysical or spiritual understanding of the source and substance of all things existing within space, which God is ever upholding and these personalities living by laws which allow for their existence and evolution (this includes the potentials of all good and evil, life and death, light and darkness). Nothing can exist outside of 'God'. So, you have to deal with these realities, within their respective contexts.
He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.
The UB however, has much info. about The Lucifer Rebellion so it plays with the biblical mythology employing the same characters in a cosmic drama which had consequences which our planetary system is still experiencing today, as some of the rebel angels will undergo judgment, awaiting adjudication before the heavenly tribunals. This world has had to deal with setbacks, which in some ways makes our planet a retarded one, but in other ways our planet is special and unique, since the Creator Son of this universe incarnated here and proclaimed the kingdom of God, then thru his resurrection won sovereign authority over the fallen angelic powers and possession of his realms, then poured out his Spirit of truth upon the mortals of the realm. Some details are different of course in this record than what is in the NT, but it all fits consistently within the cosmological context and eschatology revealed.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
What one finds or discovers is just that, it can mean any number of things or be of some value or non-value depending on the discovery
You're a skepticWhat one finds or discovers is just that, it can mean any number of things or be of some value or non-value depending on the discovery
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
healthy skepticism is OK,....but lets expand our theological horizons......
healthy skepticism is OK,....but lets expand our theological horizons......
I think my engagement record here shows I'm much more, but do note that healthy skepticism on any speculative, theoretical or experiential matter is acceptable. On that level, all religious books, cults, concepts and theories are included, the Bible, UB and every other. Consider history, cultural-context, intention of writers and many other factors behind any religious book, then the meanings and values shared in that book (content), - there are many things to consider. One can learn thru parables and myths, so allegory and metaphors have their place whether you can prove these stories actually took place somewhere in space or time, or are religious fictions more or less. Im just expanding my self beyond thinking any one single 'book' has all the answers or is the FINAL revelation of 'God'. This does not compute, if God is an infinite SPIRIT, whose omnipresence and dynamic activity is ever-expanding, ever-renewing, ever-creating.
Jesus illuminates the scriptures
The very First Paper is fundamental in foundation, the theological core to the entire revelation here. We begin with the Universal Father Himself. I think if you'd like to engage the actual material of the papers, that's a good place to begin - very foundational in this priority truth, is the personality of God, since 'personality' a most interesting subject holds a significant place.
The "I AM" of Life is the fundamental reality for starters, but this 'life' and 'consciousness' that we also are, can only be of God, since there is no other 'life' or 'consciousness', God being the One and Only. - hence while it may appear we are separate from God the Universal Father, he abides in each soul as the 'thought-adjuster', an actual fragment of the essence of infinite deity. So while God is an omnipresent, all transcending reality, he also abides in the soul of man. Here we have the God without and the God within, but ultimately there is no without God. Nothing can exist outside or without God.
healthy skepticism is OK,....but lets expand our theological horizons......
I think my engagement record here shows I'm much more, but do note that healthy skepticism on any speculative, theoretical or experiential matter is acceptable. On that level, all religious books, cults, concepts and theories are included, the Bible, UB and every other. Consider history, cultural-context, intention of writers and many other factors behind any religious book, then the meanings and values shared in that book (content), - there are many things to consider. One can learn thru parables and myths, so allegory and metaphors have their place whether you can prove these stories actually took place somewhere in space or time, or are religious fictions more or less. Im just expanding my self beyond thinking any one single 'book' has all the answers or is the FINAL revelation of 'God'. This does not compute, if God is an infinite SPIRIT, whose omnipresence and dynamic activity is ever-expanding, ever-renewing, ever-creating.
Jesus illuminates the scriptures
The very First Paper is fundamental in foundation, the theological core to the entire revelation here. We begin with the Universal Father Himself. I think if you'd like to engage the actual material of the papers, that's a good place to begin
- very foundational in this priority truth, is the personality of God, since 'personality' a most interesting subject holds a significant place.The "I AM" of Life is the fundamental reality for starters, but this 'life' and 'consciousness' that we also are, can only be of God, since there is no other 'life' or 'consciousness', God being the One and Only. - hence while it may appear we are separate from God the Universal Father, he abides in each soul as the 'thought-adjuster', an actual fragment of the essence of infinite deity. So while God is an omnipresent, all transcending reality, he also abides in the soul of man. Here we have the God without and the God within, but ultimately there is no without God. Nothing can exist outside or without God.
Lon
Well-known member
Let's look...
:think:
Er, it isn't meaningful, wise, of any value or any less if not more childish than the BoM. This may be a shock to you, but it doesn't read at all as if it were divine. It reads like you could have written it. Thus, it may make a lot of sense that you are so enamored with it, but I'm trying to get you to understand a genuine spiritual principle: God knows His own. Those who seek Him, should look to what He has to say. There are no "Thus sayeth the Lord" in the UB. It is simply opinions, PJ. Opinions are a dime a dozen. This is nothing outstanding or extraordinary.
:nono: It has been working out redemption. AT LEAST the BoM recognized the Bible was authoritative and from God. It is then very easy to recognize that the DoC, BoM, aren't in sync. The UB isn't for sure. It goes against the Bible THUS it is NOT progressive but a complete attempt at supplant. Well, there went the UB's claims for itself :noway: WAKE UP! The night is well past. Romans 13:12
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: Your theory amounts to Paul being a bad guy, a purposeful liar, and a crook. Sure, the UB thinks that, but don't you be a dupe for idiots. Paul died for what he believed. If he didn't believe it, the charade would have been over. Joseph Smith died with a gun in his hand.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Progressive Revelation......
Progressive Revelation......
Actually, the NT does not contain anywhere a "thus saith the Lord", that is only in the OT, where Christianity is riding on the back or foundation of the OT, with its own 'spin' of course. There is plenty in the UB and other religious texts besides the Bible that has divine inspiration, wisdom and insight. Not everything has to fit a preconception of there having to be an entity posing as the 'LORD' proclaiming anything, since much in the Bible is but the opinions, concepts and beliefs of the writers, however truly inspired or not they might be. Any sincere person is free to read the religious books discussed here and discover for themselves what has real meaning and value. Your 'opinion' is noted, but many others have a different opinion.
The BOM is religious fiction mixed with some Bible and theology of its writers. The UB is a revelation using a good amount of human knowledge concepts of pre-existing works, expanded and elaborated upon, supplying revelation or new concepts/cosmology only where the revelators deemed it necessary according to needs of its dispensation. Any reader is free to discover this for themselves, since just like the Bible, the text and all information relevant to its import are available online and elsewhere for students.
Religious values and spiritual principles are expressed in many different books, of which a student shall discover for himself. Just because you have chosen to believe the Bible is the final, complete and exclusive revelation of 'God' doesn't mean it is so, since thousands of others share a different opinion or totally reject any concept of God, let alone the significance of any holy books or inspired writings.
The Foreward here has the preamble to what the Urantia Papers are (main concepts, synopsis, cosmological context), for those interested. Just like the Bible, one is free to accept, reject, or see some parts as having meaning or value. Its up to each soul to determine by his own conscience and divine guidance, what path or what books, cults or organizations to affiliate with or belong to. And even these could change as one enters new dimensions or levels or guidance or revelation.
The acknowledgement at the end of the Foreword -
Progressive Revelation......
Actually, the NT does not contain anywhere a "thus saith the Lord", that is only in the OT, where Christianity is riding on the back or foundation of the OT, with its own 'spin' of course. There is plenty in the UB and other religious texts besides the Bible that has divine inspiration, wisdom and insight. Not everything has to fit a preconception of there having to be an entity posing as the 'LORD' proclaiming anything, since much in the Bible is but the opinions, concepts and beliefs of the writers, however truly inspired or not they might be. Any sincere person is free to read the religious books discussed here and discover for themselves what has real meaning and value. Your 'opinion' is noted, but many others have a different opinion.
The BOM is religious fiction mixed with some Bible and theology of its writers. The UB is a revelation using a good amount of human knowledge concepts of pre-existing works, expanded and elaborated upon, supplying revelation or new concepts/cosmology only where the revelators deemed it necessary according to needs of its dispensation. Any reader is free to discover this for themselves, since just like the Bible, the text and all information relevant to its import are available online and elsewhere for students.
Religious values and spiritual principles are expressed in many different books, of which a student shall discover for himself. Just because you have chosen to believe the Bible is the final, complete and exclusive revelation of 'God' doesn't mean it is so, since thousands of others share a different opinion or totally reject any concept of God, let alone the significance of any holy books or inspired writings.
The Foreward here has the preamble to what the Urantia Papers are (main concepts, synopsis, cosmological context), for those interested. Just like the Bible, one is free to accept, reject, or see some parts as having meaning or value. Its up to each soul to determine by his own conscience and divine guidance, what path or what books, cults or organizations to affiliate with or belong to. And even these could change as one enters new dimensions or levels or guidance or revelation.
The acknowledgement at the end of the Foreword -
It doesn't make Paul a liar, that's your rigid fatalism. It makes Paul a man with a sincere opinion, the first great, charismatic evangelist to the Greeko Roman world. And some of his atonement ideas came from impulsive Peter who began teaching his speculative gospel on the day of Pentecost. The UB has Paul as one of the top five greatest religious teachers of all time. He taught his gospel and converted many.
The post cross gospel of men became a substitue for the original gospel of salvation by faith. Now it's even further broken up into thousands of contending sects.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
A gospel about Jesus, and the gospel of Jesus........
A gospel about Jesus, and the gospel of Jesus........
The UB mentions and explains its view of Paul and his teachings here (68 references) These presentations do NOT present Paul as a bad guy, purposeful liar or a crook. He preached his own gospel-version based on his own personal revelations, a gospel about Jesus. The gospel presented in the UB emphasizes the gospel of Jesus, the gospel of the kingdom he personally taught and LIVED. Do you see a difference about a gospel ABOUT Jesus, and the gospel OF Jesus? You might if you actually read the narratives.
A gospel about Jesus, and the gospel of Jesus........
The UB mentions and explains its view of Paul and his teachings here (68 references) These presentations do NOT present Paul as a bad guy, purposeful liar or a crook. He preached his own gospel-version based on his own personal revelations, a gospel about Jesus. The gospel presented in the UB emphasizes the gospel of Jesus, the gospel of the kingdom he personally taught and LIVED. Do you see a difference about a gospel ABOUT Jesus, and the gospel OF Jesus? You might if you actually read the narratives.
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Revelation and inspiration differentiated......
Revelation and inspiration differentiated......
Yes, but I think an understanding of the terminology used is essential here
The chapter 'The Limitations of Revelation' in Paper 101 addresses this directly -
So we see from above, that 'inspiration' is not claimed, but what is presented is an expanding revelation, particularly on cosmology of the universe, as well as religious truths and spiritual principles. The expanded revelations themselves serve to INSPIRE souls on various levels. So I think the key to the UB as the 5th Epochal Revelation, is just that....it is an expanded revelation of foundational truths, already known human knowledge, concepts and ideals... which serve to inspire, enrich and edify humanity. A claim to 'divine inspiration' is not necessary in the context shared, although of course true religion is inspirational
Revelation and inspiration differentiated......
Yes, but I think an understanding of the terminology used is essential here
The chapter 'The Limitations of Revelation' in Paper 101 addresses this directly -
So we see from above, that 'inspiration' is not claimed, but what is presented is an expanding revelation, particularly on cosmology of the universe, as well as religious truths and spiritual principles. The expanded revelations themselves serve to INSPIRE souls on various levels. So I think the key to the UB as the 5th Epochal Revelation, is just that....it is an expanded revelation of foundational truths, already known human knowledge, concepts and ideals... which serve to inspire, enrich and edify humanity. A claim to 'divine inspiration' is not necessary in the context shared, although of course true religion is inspirational
Bible is completeI think my engagement record here shows I'm much more, but do note that healthy skepticism on any speculative, theoretical or experiential matter is acceptable. On that level, all religious books, cults, concepts and theories are included, the Bible, UB and every other. Consider history, cultural-context, intention of writers and many other factors behind any religious book, then the meanings and values shared in that book (content), - there are many things to consider. One can learn thru parables and myths, so allegory and metaphors have their place whether you can prove these stories actually took place somewhere in space or time, or are religious fictions more or less. Im just expanding my self beyond thinking any one single 'book' has all the answers or is the FINAL revelation of 'God'. This does not compute, if God is an infinite SPIRIT, whose omnipresence and dynamic activity is ever-expanding, ever-renewing, ever-creating.
Jesus illuminates the scriptures
The very First Paper is fundamental in foundation, the theological core to the entire revelation here. We begin with the Universal Father Himself. I think if you'd like to engage the actual material of the papers, that's a good place to begin
The "I AM" of Life is the fundamental reality for starters, but this 'life' and 'consciousness' that we also are, can only be of God, since there is no other 'life' or 'consciousness', God being the One and Only. - hence while it may appear we are separate from God the Universal Father, he abides in each soul as the 'thought-adjuster', an actual fragment of the essence of infinite deity. So while God is an omnipresent, all transcending reality, he also abides in the soul of man. Here we have the God without and the God within, but ultimately there is no without God. Nothing can exist outside or without God.
Yes, but I think an understanding of the terminology used is essential here
The chapter 'The Limitations of Revelation' in Paper 101 addresses this directly -
So we see from above, that 'inspiration' is not claimed, but what is presented is an expanding revelation, particularly on cosmology of the universe, as well as religious truths and spiritual principles. The expanded revelations themselves serve to INSPIRE souls on various levels. So I think the key to the UB as the 5th Epochal Revelation, is just that....it is an expanded revelation of foundational truths, already known human knowledge, concepts and ideals... which serve to inspire, enrich and edify humanity. A claim to 'divine inspiration' is not necessary in the context shared, although of course true religion is inspirational
Right, we have said that before, but you are confusing Lon for a sincere individual. He doesn't care about any of that.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Only the Creator is perfect, but Creation is ever evolving.......
Only the Creator is perfect, but Creation is ever evolving.......
Actually we as theists or theosophists of various kinds and types usually agree that only Deity or 'God' is 'complete' or 'perfect' in its 'being' and 'essence', the infinite Spirit itself. It is this state or condition of perfection, the condition of 'love', that God IS. - so I would probably set focus on God as LOVE, being the HEART of the very Universe, the First Source and Center of All that Is. - it is this condition of love that Jesus encourages us to attain or resonate as, when he said "be ye perfect, as your Father in the heavens, is perfect". - you will see that in Matt. 5, in context, it was being 'loving' as the Father is loving, that makes up the quality of this 'perfection'. It is this 'mark' that we are aspiring towards, of which anything less than is 'sin' ('sin', meaning to 'miss the mark').
Now regarding your assumption that the "Bible is complete", is this belief even necessary? Why assume this? Even the UB does not claim to be 'complete'....since revelation is progressive, and there may be a continuing of 'progressive revelation' as long as man's capacity to learn, grow and evolve remains. Is this not logical? Therefore, there is no reason to assume the perfection of the Bible or any other religious book, but we can still of course appreciate its value and use these various books for religious instruction and spiritual guidance,....but even so,...it is the Spirit of truth that is ever leading and guiding us. "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life".
Pause a moment in the silence of space, and contemplate the glory and wonder of the cosmos! Contemplate now in the silence of your own inner temple, the light of Deity, the essence of reality, the individual presence of 'God' abiding in you, even as you
Now in this meditation, take time to worship the splendor of Spirit, the beauty of soul, in the music of the spheres -
Om shanti......
Only the Creator is perfect, but Creation is ever evolving.......
Actually we as theists or theosophists of various kinds and types usually agree that only Deity or 'God' is 'complete' or 'perfect' in its 'being' and 'essence', the infinite Spirit itself. It is this state or condition of perfection, the condition of 'love', that God IS. - so I would probably set focus on God as LOVE, being the HEART of the very Universe, the First Source and Center of All that Is. - it is this condition of love that Jesus encourages us to attain or resonate as, when he said "be ye perfect, as your Father in the heavens, is perfect". - you will see that in Matt. 5, in context, it was being 'loving' as the Father is loving, that makes up the quality of this 'perfection'. It is this 'mark' that we are aspiring towards, of which anything less than is 'sin' ('sin', meaning to 'miss the mark').
Now regarding your assumption that the "Bible is complete", is this belief even necessary? Why assume this? Even the UB does not claim to be 'complete'....since revelation is progressive, and there may be a continuing of 'progressive revelation' as long as man's capacity to learn, grow and evolve remains. Is this not logical? Therefore, there is no reason to assume the perfection of the Bible or any other religious book, but we can still of course appreciate its value and use these various books for religious instruction and spiritual guidance,....but even so,...it is the Spirit of truth that is ever leading and guiding us. "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life".
Pause a moment in the silence of space, and contemplate the glory and wonder of the cosmos! Contemplate now in the silence of your own inner temple, the light of Deity, the essence of reality, the individual presence of 'God' abiding in you, even as you
Now in this meditation, take time to worship the splendor of Spirit, the beauty of soul, in the music of the spheres -
Om shanti......
You doubt the bibleActually we as theists or theosophists of various kinds and types usually agree that only Deity or 'God' is 'complete' or 'perfect' in its 'being' and 'essence', the infinite Spirit itself. It is this state or condition of perfection, the condition of 'love', that God IS. - so I would probably set focus on God as LOVE, being the HEART of the very Universe, the First Source and Center of All that Is. - it is this condition of love that Jesus encourages us to attain or resonate as, when he said "be ye perfect, as your Father in the heavens, is perfect". - you will see that in Matt. 5, in context, it was being 'loving' as the Father is loving, that makes up the quality of this 'perfection'. It is this 'mark' that we are aspiring towards, of which anything less than is 'sin' ('sin', meaning to 'miss the mark').
Now regarding your assumption that the "Bible is complete", is this belief even necessary? Why assume this? Even the UB does not claim to be 'complete'....since revelation is progressive, and there may be a continuing of 'progressive revelation' as long as man's capacity to learn, grow and evolve remains. Is this not logical? Therefore, there is no reason to assume the perfection of the Bible or any other religious book, but we can still of course appreciate its value and use these various books for religious instruction and spiritual guidance,....but even so,...it is the Spirit of truth that is ever leading and guiding us. "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life".
Pause a moment in the silence of space, and contemplate the glory and wonder of the cosmos! Contemplate now in the silence of your own inner temple, the light of Deity, the essence of reality, the individual presence of 'God' abiding in you, even as you
Now in this meditation, take time to worship the splendor of Spirit, the beauty of soul, in the music of the spheres -
Om shanti......
Lon
Well-known member
You are continually under the delusion that I haven't read a significant portion....
lain: Its junk, PJ. Sorry, you have to be intelligently challenged to buy this rubbish. Mean? No, I'm trying to wake you and Caino up. I'm not here to banter with you over details.:nono: There is nobody more sincere in trying to get you two or three to see what is true and what is not. You are correct there is no appreciation of your book. You admit yourself it isn't inspired. How could I possibly take it any more seriously than you do yourself? THINK! :think: (I'm not here for any other reason than to be a TRUE sounding board to you guys. Take advantage of it. I'm about done again. I will likely 'try' again to break through your buy-in to inept opinions.
There you go, the Bible does. Take a huge hint... Uninspired opinion trying to claim a Bible that does indeed claim to be inspired... Wake up! This is your sign! 2 Timothy 4:3
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
The Bible or any other religious book including the UB does not contain the complete, perfect and FINAL revelation of the INFINITE. I accept religious values, spiritual truths and principles WHEREVER they are found. This is the attitude of a student of truth, who recognizes 'progressive revelation'.
You are continually under the delusion that I haven't read a significant portion....
:nono: There is nobody more sincere in trying to get you two or three to see what is true and what is not. You are correct there is no appreciation of your book. You admit yourself it isn't inspired. How could I possibly take it any more seriously than you do yourself? THINK! :think: (I'm not here for any other reason than to be a TRUE sounding board to you guys. Take advantage of it. I'm about done again. I will likely 'try' again to break through your buy-in to inept opinions.
There you go, the Bible does. Take a huge hint... Uninspired opinion trying to claim a Bible that does indeed claim to be inspired... Wake up! This is your sign! 2 Timothy 4:3
The authors of the Bible didn't claim inspiration, they wrote in a form of preacher speak. According to you one would have to have waited thousands of years until the author of Timothy expressed an opinion which is no better than your own opinion.
In terms of "intelligently challenged" claiming Genesis is actually factual requires a special kind of intelligence suppression. A lot of Christians don't even believe half of those exaggerated claims by the Jews.
Lots of open minded people are finding Jesus through the UB. I'm so grateful not to be stuck having to defend the Bible.
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