The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

The Fatherhood of God...............

The Fatherhood of God...............

You are a good teacher Freelight, have you not been called to teach on a more public scale? You have a good way of summarizing and simplifying the truths of the UB.

(1010.4) 92:5.16 "The future of Urantia will doubtless be characterized by the appearance of teachers of religious truth — the Fatherhood of God and the fraternity of all creatures. But it is to be hoped that the ardent and sincere efforts of these future prophets will be directed less toward the strengthening of interreligious barriers and more toward the augmentation of the religious brotherhood of spiritual worship among the many followers of the differing intellectual theologies which so characterize Urantia of Satania."​

Hi Caino,


Thank you,....I serve mostly thru the written 'word', as my art & craft,...serving as an expositor/expounder, both privately and publically. The pivotal roles of 'teaching' and 'learning' go hand in hand, alternating along the path.

The above UB quote is important,...for true teachers are essential in sharing the word of truth, founded upon true principles, 'augmenting religious brotherhood and spiritual worship' among all peoples. The fact that God is 'Our Father', makes us all children of God, and 'love' is the living principle or dynamic which realizes this.




pj

 

[freelight]

Paper 12 - The Universe of universes

Paper 12 - The Universe of universes

~*~*~

Continuing the audio-video series from the last one here,....we share Paper 12 on The Universe of universes -

1. Space Levels of the Master Universe
2. The Domains of the Unqualified Absolute
3. Universal Gravity
4. Space and Motion
5. Space and Time
6. Universal Overcontrol
7. The Part and the Whole
8. Matter, Mind, and Spirit
9. Personal Realities

Paper 12 - The Universe of universes

pj

 

[Caino]

Hi Freelight,

Thanks for the link, it's a good refresher to some mind blowing truths about a number of physical and spiritual realities. But the paragraph that caught my attention comes at the end of paper 12:

12:9.

5 "Your religion is becoming real because it is emerging from the slavery of fear and the bondage of superstition. Your philosophy struggles for emancipation from dogma and tradition. Your science is engaged in the agelong contest between truth and error while it fights for deliverance from the bondage of abstraction, the slavery of mathematics, and the relative blindness of mechanistic materialism.

12:9.6 Mortal man has a spirit nucleus. The mind is a personal-energy system existing around a divine spirit nucleus and functioning in a material environment. Such a living relationship of personal mind and spirit constitutes the universe potential of eternal personality. Real trouble, lasting disappointment, serious defeat, or inescapable death can come only after self-concepts presume fully to displace the governing power of the central spirit nucleus, thereby disrupting the cosmic scheme of personality identity."


12:9.7 [Presented by a Perfector of Wisdom acting by authority of the Ancients of Days.]​

 

[freelight]

conditional immortality............

conditional immortality............

Hi Freelight,

Thanks for the link, it's a good refresher to some mind blowing truths about a number of physical and spiritual realities. But the paragraph that caught my attention comes at the end of paper 12:

12:9.

5 "Your religion is becoming real because it is emerging from the slavery of fear and the bondage of superstition. Your philosophy struggles for emancipation from dogma and tradition. Your science is engaged in the agelong contest between truth and error while it fights for deliverance from the bondage of abstraction, the slavery of mathematics, and the relative blindness of mechanistic materialism.

12:9.6 Mortal man has a spirit nucleus. The mind is a personal-energy system existing around a divine spirit nucleus and functioning in a material environment. Such a living relationship of personal mind and spirit constitutes the universe potential of eternal personality. Real trouble, lasting disappointment, serious defeat, or inescapable death can come only after self-concepts presume fully to displace the governing power of the central spirit nucleus, thereby disrupting the cosmic scheme of personality identity."


12:9.7 [Presented by a Perfector of Wisdom acting by authority of the Ancients of Days.]​

Yes, this one passage is wonderful,...that "man has a spirit nucleus', around which his mind/body/personality complex is situated,...that compound functioning unit being a 'soul' with 'immortality-potential'. We see in the rest of the passage there existing for that 'personality' the potential for eternal survival, while there also being the possibility for a soul not choosing eternal life, whereby there is the eventual dis-integration of that soul-unit. The papers go into descriptions about 'soul-death', which we've covered here previously, which is more along the lines of 'annihilation', assuming that the wicked (who utterly reject God, and fully embrace iniquity to its end result) will actually 'perish' (be terminated, wiped out, suffer a 'death' from which there is no return or possibility of resurrection).

This in contrast to the common belief that some souls will suffer in 'eternal conscious torment' (ECT) in hell-fire, which I cover here in another thread on the subject. - in these commentaries I explore a more spiritualist view (universalist, eternal progress ultimately for all), and the 'annihilation' view where souls actually DIE (become 'no more', extinct). This is a complex subject, especially when considering the various psychological/spiritual components that make up man.

This makes us reflect upon the spirit of God within us (the thought-adjuster), and that element in us that constitutes our 'personality', its potential for eternality.



pj

 

[Caino]

Freelight you lead me to think of the origins of the concept of a "hell" where a God tortures his weak, erring children for an eternity.

The Death-Survival Concept​

(952.7) 86:4.1 The concept of a supermaterial phase of mortal personality was born of the unconscious and purely accidental association of the occurrences of everyday life plus the ghost dream. The simultaneous dreaming about a departed chief by several members of his tribe seemed to constitute convincing evidence that the old chief had really returned in some form. It was all very real to the savage who would awaken from such dreams reeking with sweat, trembling, and screaming.

(953.1) 86:4.2 The dream origin of the belief in a future existence explains the tendency always to imagine unseen things in the terms of things seen. And presently this new dream-ghost-future-life concept began effectively to antidote the death fear associated with the biologic instinct of self-preservation.

(953.2) 86:4.3 Early man was also much concerned about his breath, especially in cold climates, where it appeared as a cloud when exhaled. The breath of life was regarded as the one phenomenon which differentiated the living and the dead. He knew the breath could leave the body, and his dreams of doing all sorts of queer things while asleep convinced him that there was something immaterial about a human being. The most primitive idea of the human soul, the ghost, was derived from the breath-dream idea-system.

(953.3) 86:4.4 Eventually the savage conceived of himself as a double — body and breath. The breath minus the body equaled a spirit, a ghost. While having a very definite human origin, ghosts, or spirits, were regarded as superhuman. And this belief in the existence of disembodied spirits seemed to explain the occurrence of the unusual, the extraordinary, the infrequent, and the inexplicable.

(953.4) 86:4.5 The primitive doctrine of survival after death was not necessarily a belief in immortality. Beings who could not count over twenty could hardly conceive of infinity and eternity; they rather thought of recurring incarnations.

(953.5) 86:4.6 The orange race was especially given to belief in transmigration and reincarnation. This idea of reincarnation originated in the observance of hereditary and trait resemblance of offspring to ancestors. The custom of naming children after grandparents and other ancestors was due to belief in reincarnation. Some later-day races believed that man died from three to seven times. This belief (residual from the teachings of Adam about the mansion worlds), and many other remnants of revealed religion, can be found among the otherwise absurd doctrines of twentieth-century barbarians.

(953.6) 86:4.7 Early man entertained no ideas of hell or future punishment. The savage looked upon the future life as just like this one, minus all ill luck. Later on, a separate destiny for good ghosts and bad ghosts — heaven and hell — was conceived. But since many primitive races believed that man entered the next life just as he left this one, they did not relish the idea of becoming old and decrepit. The aged much preferred to be killed before becoming too infirm.


(953.7) 86:4.8 Almost every group had a different idea regarding the destiny of the ghost soul. The Greeks believed that weak men must have weak souls; so they invented Hades as a fit place for the reception of such anemic souls; these unrobust specimens were also supposed to have shorter shadows. The early Andites thought their ghosts returned to the ancestral homelands. The Chinese and Egyptians once believed that soul and body remained together. Among the Egyptians this led to careful tomb construction and efforts at body preservation. Even modern peoples seek to arrest the decay of the dead. The Hebrews conceived that a phantom replica of the individual went down to Sheol; it could not return to the land of the living. They did make that important advance in the doctrine of the evolution of the soul."

 

[Caino]

I'm guilty of falling short of Jesus' teachings here in this section:


"Always respect the personality of man. Never should a righteous cause be promoted by force; spiritual victories can be won only by spiritual power. This injunction against the employment of material influences refers to psychic force as well as to physical force. Overpowering arguments and mental superiority are not to be employed to coerce men and women into the kingdom. Man’s mind is not to be crushed by the mere weight of logic or overawed by shrewd eloquence. While emotion as a factor in human decisions cannot be wholly eliminated, it should not be directly appealed to in the teachings of those who would advance the cause of the kingdom. Make your appeals directly to the divine spirit that dwells within the minds of men. Do not appeal to fear, pity, or mere sentiment. In appealing to men, be fair; exercise self-control and exhibit due restraint; show proper respect for the personalities of your pupils. Remember that I have said: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock, and if any man will open, I will come in.”

(1765.5) 159:3.3 In bringing men into the kingdom, do not lessen or destroy their self-respect. While overmuch self-respect may destroy proper humility and end in pride, conceit, and arrogance, the loss of self-respect often ends in paralysis of the will. It is the purpose of this gospel to restore self-respect to those who have lost it and to restrain it in those who have it. Make not the mistake of only condemning the wrongs in the lives of your pupils; remember also to accord generous recognition for the most praiseworthy things in their lives. Forget not that I will stop at nothing to restore self-respect to those who have lost it, and who really desire to regain it.

(1765.6) 159:3.4 Take care that you do not wound the self-respect of timid and fearful souls. Do not indulge in sarcasm at the expense of my simple-minded brethren. Be not cynical with my fear-ridden children. Idleness is destructive of self-respect; therefore, admonish your brethren ever to keep busy at their chosen tasks, and put forth every effort to secure work for those who find themselves without employment.

(1766.1) 159:3.5 Never be guilty of such unworthy tactics as endeavoring to frighten men and women into the kingdom. A loving father does not frighten his children into yielding obedience to his just requirements.

(1766.2) 159:3.6 Sometime the children of the kingdom will realize that strong feelings of emotion are not equivalent to the leadings of the divine spirit. To be strongly and strangely impressed to do something or to go to a certain place, does not necessarily mean that such impulses are the leadings of the indwelling spirit.

(1766.3) 159:3.7 Forewarn all believers regarding the fringe of conflict which must be traversed by all who pass from the life as it is lived in the flesh to the higher life as it is lived in the spirit. To those who live quite wholly within either realm, there is little conflict or confusion, but all are doomed to experience more or less uncertainty during the times of transition between the two levels of living. In entering the kingdom, you cannot escape its responsibilities or avoid its obligations, but remember: The gospel yoke is easy and the burden of truth is light.

(1766.4) 159:3.8 The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. Men seek for the treasures of the kingdom with yearning hearts and weary feet when they are all within the immediate grasp of living faith. Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt — unbelief.

 

[Aimiel]

I'm guilty of falling short of Jesus' teachings here in this section:

You mis-spelled your false god's name: J-E-B-U-S. Jesus never inspired anyone to write the UB, a demon named: "Jebus," did. The Lord said that if anyone added to His Word the plagues in It would be added to them. You're begging for plagues in your life and playing Russian roulette with your soul.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Freelight you lead me to think of the origins of the concept of a "hell" where a God tortures his weak, erring children for an eternity.

The Death-Survival Concept​

(952.7) 86:4.1 The concept of a supermaterial phase of mortal personality was born of the unconscious and purely accidental association of the occurrences of everyday life plus the ghost dream. The simultaneous dreaming about a departed chief by several members of his tribe seemed to constitute convincing evidence that the old chief had really returned in some form. It was all very real to the savage who would awaken from such dreams reeking with sweat, trembling, and screaming.

"

Why, all of this is simple! So simple as to be childish!

 

[Caino]

How to pray

How to pray

"Prayer is a part of the divine plan for making over that which is into that which ought to be."

​

4. Ethical Praying

(997.6) 91:4.1 No prayer can be ethical when the petitioner seeks for selfish advantage over his fellows. Selfish and materialistic praying is incompatible with the ethical religions which are predicated on unselfish and divine love. All such unethical praying reverts to the primitive levels of pseudo magic and is unworthy of advancing civilizations and enlightened religions. Selfish praying transgresses the spirit of all ethics founded on loving justice.

(997.7) 91:4.2 Prayer must never be so prostituted as to become a substitute for action. All ethical prayer is a stimulus to action and a guide to the progressive striving for idealistic goals of superself-attainment.

(998.1) 91:4.3 In all your praying be fair; do not expect God to show partiality, to love you more than his other children, your friends, neighbors, even enemies. But the prayer of the natural or evolved religions is not at first ethical, as it is in the later revealed religions. All praying, whether individual or communal, may be either egoistic or altruistic. That is, the prayer may be centered upon the self or upon others. When the prayer seeks nothing for the one who prays nor anything for his fellows, then such attitudes of the soul tend to the levels of true worship. Egoistic prayers involve confessions and petitions and often consist in requests for material favors. Prayer is somewhat more ethical when it deals with forgiveness and seeks wisdom for enhanced self-control.

(998.2) 91:4.4 While the nonselfish type of prayer is strengthening and comforting, materialistic praying is destined to bring disappointment and disillusionment as advancing scientific discoveries demonstrate that man lives in a physical universe of law and order. The childhood of an individual or a race is characterized by primitive, selfish, and materialistic praying. And, to a certain extent, all such petitions are efficacious in that they unvaryingly lead to those efforts and exertions which are contributory to achieving the answers to such prayers. The real prayer of faith always contributes to the augmentation of the technique of living, even if such petitions are not worthy of spiritual recognition. But the spiritually advanced person should exercise great caution in attempting to discourage the primitive or immature mind regarding such prayers.

(998.3) 91:4.5 Remember, even if prayer does not change God, it very often effects great and lasting changes in the one who prays in faith and confident expectation. Prayer has been the ancestor of much peace of mind, cheerfulness, calmness, courage, self-mastery, and fair-mindedness in the men and women of the evolving races.

http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-91-evolution-prayer?term=Prayer#search-jump-result-0

 

[freelight]

"Prayer is a part of the divine plan for making over that which is into that which ought to be."

​

4. Ethical Praying

(997.6) 91:4.1 No prayer can be ethical when the petitioner seeks for selfish advantage over his fellows. Selfish and materialistic praying is incompatible with the ethical religions which are predicated on unselfish and divine love. All such unethical praying reverts to the primitive levels of pseudo magic and is unworthy of advancing civilizations and enlightened religions. Selfish praying transgresses the spirit of all ethics founded on loving justice.

(997.7) 91:4.2 Prayer must never be so prostituted as to become a substitute for action. All ethical prayer is a stimulus to action and a guide to the progressive striving for idealistic goals of superself-attainment.

(998.1) 91:4.3 In all your praying be fair; do not expect God to show partiality, to love you more than his other children, your friends, neighbors, even enemies. But the prayer of the natural or evolved religions is not at first ethical, as it is in the later revealed religions. All praying, whether individual or communal, may be either egoistic or altruistic. That is, the prayer may be centered upon the self or upon others. When the prayer seeks nothing for the one who prays nor anything for his fellows, then such attitudes of the soul tend to the levels of true worship. Egoistic prayers involve confessions and petitions and often consist in requests for material favors. Prayer is somewhat more ethical when it deals with forgiveness and seeks wisdom for enhanced self-control.

(998.2) 91:4.4 While the nonselfish type of prayer is strengthening and comforting, materialistic praying is destined to bring disappointment and disillusionment as advancing scientific discoveries demonstrate that man lives in a physical universe of law and order. The childhood of an individual or a race is characterized by primitive, selfish, and materialistic praying. And, to a certain extent, all such petitions are efficacious in that they unvaryingly lead to those efforts and exertions which are contributory to achieving the answers to such prayers. The real prayer of faith always contributes to the augmentation of the technique of living, even if such petitions are not worthy of spiritual recognition. But the spiritually advanced person should exercise great caution in attempting to discourage the primitive or immature mind regarding such prayers.

(998.3) 91:4.5 Remember, even if prayer does not change God, it very often effects great and lasting changes in the one who prays in faith and confident expectation. Prayer has been the ancestor of much peace of mind, cheerfulness, calmness, courage, self-mastery, and fair-mindedness in the men and women of the evolving races.

http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-91-evolution-prayer?term=Prayer#search-jump-result-0

:thumb:


I think most religionists and persons of faith would agree with the above.



pj

 

[Aimiel]

It's designed to lull you into a sense of security, as if the spirit behind the UB is good... as if it is actually FROM God. It isn't. It's a ruse. Not knowing what spirit is behind the UB is dangerous. Knowing it's from below makes one aware of the fact that it cannot be trusted. The work of fiction (Jesus' life and words as described in the UB) is what is harmful. The lead-in to any sin is always tempting. It always LOOKS like you want it, like it is good... it isn't. It's the work of the enemy.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[freelight]

Your 'opinion'........

Your 'opinion'........

It's designed to lull you into a sense of security, as if the spirit behind the UB is good... as if it is actually FROM God. It isn't. It's a ruse. Not knowing what spirit is behind the UB is dangerous. Knowing it's from below makes one aware of the fact that it cannot be trusted. The work of fiction (Jesus' life and words as described in the UB) is what is harmful. The lead-in to any sin is always tempting. It always LOOKS like you want it, like it is good... it isn't. It's the work of the enemy.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Prove your 'assessment' above by showing where the 'spirit' and 'principles' behind the article are 'wrong' on the subject of 'ethical prayer'.

Prove its from an 'enemy' somewhere out there.

Prove your claims are true, beyond being your 'personal opinion' or 'religion indoctrination'.

Fact is, you only have your religious opinion, assertion, 'faith' in your own judgment about the issue,..since your entire conclusion is 'faith-based' holding only your 'version' of truth as somehow 'exclusive' or 'absolute'.

The content of any book, stands on its own in relation to its 'terms' and 'context'.

True concepts, values, meanings, philosophical insights, relating knowledge-symbols and language-forms....are logical, reasonable, or 'true' wherever they are found. You cant put 'God' or 'reality' in a box. That's what seems to elude you, and has been your 'bone' to pick since the beginning of the thread, which will continue in circles as long as you hold on to your preconceptions.


pj

 

[Caino]

Prove your 'assessment' above by showing where the 'spirit' and 'principles' behind the article are 'wrong' on the subject of 'ethical prayer'.

Prove its from an 'enemy' somewhere out there.

Prove your claims are true, beyond being your 'personal opinion' or 'religion indoctrination'.

Fact is, you only have your religious opinion, assertion, 'faith' in your own judgment about the issue,..since your entire conclusion is 'faith-based' holding only your 'version' of truth as somehow 'exclusive' or 'absolute'.

The content of any book, stands on its own in relation to its 'terms' and 'context'.

True concepts, values, meanings, philosophical insights, relating knowledge-symbols and language-forms....are logical, reasonable, or 'true' wherever they are found. You cant put 'God' or 'reality' in a box. That's what seems to elude you, and has been your 'bone' to pick since the beginning of the thread, which will continue in circles as long as you hold on to your preconceptions.


pj

(969.5) 88:2.7 "In olden times the fetish word of authority was a fear-inspiring doctrine, the most terrible of all tyrants which enslave men. A doctrinal fetish will lead mortal man to betray himself into the clutches of bigotry, fanaticism, superstition, intolerance, and the most atrocious of barbarous cruelties. Modern respect for wisdom and truth is but the recent escape from the fetish-making tendency up to the higher levels of thinking and reasoning. Concerning the accumulated fetish writings which various religionists hold as sacred books, it is not only believed that what is in the book is true, but also that every truth is contained in the book. If one of these sacred books happens to speak of the earth as being flat, then, for long generations, otherwise sane men and women will refuse to accept positive evidence that the planet is round."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It's designed to lull you into a sense of security, as if the spirit behind the UB is good... as if it is actually FROM God. It isn't. It's a ruse. Not knowing what spirit is behind the UB is dangerous. Knowing it's from below makes one aware of the fact that it cannot be trusted. The work of fiction (Jesus' life and words as described in the UB) is what is harmful. The lead-in to any sin is always tempting. It always LOOKS like you want it, like it is good... it isn't. It's the work of the enemy.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Good post!

 

[Caino]

A few so called miracles in the common Jesus story never actually happened, rather they were legends.

Simon Peter’s Night Vision
​

(1703.1) 152:4.1 The apostles, without their Master — sent off by themselves — entered the boat and in silence began to row toward Bethsaida on the western shore of the lake. None of the twelve was so crushed and downcast as Simon Peter. Hardly a word was spoken; they were all thinking of the Master alone in the hills. Had he forsaken them? He had never before sent them all away and refused to go with them. What could all this mean?

(1703.2) 152:4.2 Darkness descended upon them, for there had arisen a strong and contrary wind which made progress almost impossible. As the hours of darkness and hard rowing passed, Peter grew weary and fell into a deep sleep of exhaustion. Andrew and James put him to rest on the cushioned seat in the stern of the boat. While the other apostles toiled against the wind and the waves, Peter dreamed a dream; he saw a vision of Jesus coming to them walking on the sea. When the Master seemed to walk on by the boat, Peter cried out, “Save us, Master, save us.” And those who were in the rear of the boat heard him say some of these words. As this apparition of the night season continued in Peter’s mind, he dreamed that he heard Jesus say: “Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.” This was like the balm of Gilead to Peter’s disturbed soul; it soothed his troubled spirit, so that (in his dream) he cried out to the Master: “Lord, if it really is you, bid me come and walk with you on the water.” And when Peter started to walk upon the water, the boisterous waves frightened him, and as he was about to sink, he cried out, “Lord, save me!” And many of the twelve heard him utter this cry. Then Peter dreamed that Jesus came to the rescue and, stretching forth his hand, took hold and lifted him up, saying: “O, you of little faith, wherefore did you doubt?”

(1703.3) 152:4.3 In connection with the latter part of his dream Peter arose from the seat whereon he slept and actually stepped overboard and into the water. And he awakened from his dream as Andrew, James, and John reached down and pulled him out of the sea.

(1703.4) 152:4.4 To Peter this experience was always real. He sincerely believed that Jesus came to them that night. He only partially convinced John Mark, which explains why Mark left a portion of the story out of his narrative. Luke, the physician, who made careful search into these matters, concluded that the episode was a vision of Peter’s and therefore refused to give place to this story in the preparation of his narrative.

 

[freelight]

preaching to the chior......

preaching to the chior......

Good post!

Cheerleading for one's own team, does not necessarily make that team 'right' or 'good', being a biased praised. Tooting your own horn.....is well,....just tooting your own horn. One has to be careful though, lest they get mesmerized by such a tune and take if for 'divine'.


:idea: Better yet, is waking up to the greater reality that is 'all-inclusive',....and all transcending.


pj

 

[Aimiel]

:blabla:

 

[freelight]

considering the Infinite...............

considering the Infinite...............

:blabla:

There you go. Same ole ridicule and banter (stuck on 'repeat').

The 'response' only supports my propositions, since you cannot (or don't want to) answer the questions. However, from my POV,...this is hardly about who is right or wrong, a position often taken by more fanatical religionists or exclusivists since as an 'expounder', I AM 'consciousness' itself enjoying the play of mind, its associations and relations (articulating, exploring and relating various concepts)...which in the realm of 'theology' is multifarious. I could equally drop all concepts NOW....and reality itself would remain AS IT IS. Remember about 'conceptual frames' shared earlier here. All 'truth' in the associated realm of language, interpreted in space-time by conditional minds in any given limited dimension or 'space-context' will be 'relative' to the perception-capacity and modifying factors that affect 'perception' from that particular point of view. Hence the revelators in this instant give us something true to consider (as it relates), seeing the greater dimensional over-lay of the totality of reality.




pj

 

[Aimiel]

There you go. Same ole ridicule and banter (stuck on 'repeat').

As if your taunting me isn't even more childish? Cheesh. You bash a fellow-Christian for simply applauding a post, yet Caino worships the ground you walk on and you don't do anything but puff yourself up again and again in response. How big of a hypocrite is there on the earth that is larger than yourself? I suspect: not very many.

The 'response' only supports my propositions, since you cannot (or don't want to) answer the questions.

I can answer anything you like.

However, from my POV,...this is hardly about who is right or wrong, a position often taken by more fanatical religionists or exclusivists since as an 'expounder'...

Being wrong in this case can have everlasting consequences. An eternity of regret will never remove the lies and hatred aimed at God's Holy Word.

... I AM 'consciousness' itself enjoying the play of mind...

The Lord doesn't like it when you use His nickname in conjunction with New Age drivel. [/QUOTE]I could equally drop all concepts NOW....and reality itself would remain AS IT IS. [/QUOTE]Why? Because Xeno said: "What is; is?" Reality isn't perceived by mortals. We perceive temporal things, you of all people ought to know, since you claim to be so 'enlightened' and attempt to produce meaningful discourse about things which you actually have no clue that you're barking at the moon with nonsense instead of pursuing Truth. God is Truth. Your ideas 'about' God don't even reach above the ceiling, much less where He walks. You haven't scratched the surface of Truth, yet you think you hold a corner on it. All you have is stuck on repeat. You're like a broken record bellowing out the same half-truths and nonsense all day long every single post. It's so shallow and thoughtless it doesn't even deserve to be read, most times.

 

[freelight]

Peter's visions...............

Peter's visions...............

A few so called miracles in the common Jesus story never actually happened, rather they were legends.

Simon Peter’s Night Vision
​

(1703.1) 152:4.1 The apostles, without their Master — sent off by themselves — entered the boat and in silence began to row toward Bethsaida on the western shore of the lake. None of the twelve was so crushed and downcast as Simon Peter. Hardly a word was spoken; they were all thinking of the Master alone in the hills. Had he forsaken them? He had never before sent them all away and refused to go with them. What could all this mean?

(1703.2) 152:4.2 Darkness descended upon them, for there had arisen a strong and contrary wind which made progress almost impossible. As the hours of darkness and hard rowing passed, Peter grew weary and fell into a deep sleep of exhaustion. Andrew and James put him to rest on the cushioned seat in the stern of the boat. While the other apostles toiled against the wind and the waves, Peter dreamed a dream; he saw a vision of Jesus coming to them walking on the sea. When the Master seemed to walk on by the boat, Peter cried out, “Save us, Master, save us.” And those who were in the rear of the boat heard him say some of these words. As this apparition of the night season continued in Peter’s mind, he dreamed that he heard Jesus say: “Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.” This was like the balm of Gilead to Peter’s disturbed soul; it soothed his troubled spirit, so that (in his dream) he cried out to the Master: “Lord, if it really is you, bid me come and walk with you on the water.” And when Peter started to walk upon the water, the boisterous waves frightened him, and as he was about to sink, he cried out, “Lord, save me!” And many of the twelve heard him utter this cry. Then Peter dreamed that Jesus came to the rescue and, stretching forth his hand, took hold and lifted him up, saying: “O, you of little faith, wherefore did you doubt?”

(1703.3) 152:4.3 In connection with the latter part of his dream Peter arose from the seat whereon he slept and actually stepped overboard and into the water. And he awakened from his dream as Andrew, James, and John reached down and pulled him out of the sea.

(1703.4) 152:4.4 To Peter this experience was always real. He sincerely believed that Jesus came to them that night. He only partially convinced John Mark, which explains why Mark left a portion of the story out of his narrative. Luke, the physician, who made careful search into these matters, concluded that the episode was a vision of Peter’s and therefore refused to give place to this story in the preparation of his narrative.

Interesting to note that Peter was a man of 'visions', as we recall his vision of a sheet with animals (Acts 10) and the Transfiguration event, which some accounts call a 'vision'. We may have covered the UB's account of the 'transfiguration' earlier here, if it was only a 'vision' or an actual manifestation/visitation,...if such can be 'differentiated'.


pj