The Joys of Catholicism

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ

And thank the Lord for it.

What's funny is that in reality, for this analogy to be right, there are a million (OK not a million, but a lot more than just one) stacks all labeled "Biblical Christianity", and if you added all those stacks together, it would make a far taller stack than Roman Catholicism's stack. Which is ironic, don't you think?
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
And it is metaphor that we are struggling with?

I'm going to take another bite of the apple ... again.

Isn't it interesting that in baptism, the water symbolizes or represents or means or signifies Christ's blood, but if Roman Catholic theology of the Eucharist is correct, then the chalice actually IS His actual blood? The water of baptism is metaphorically, iow, His blood, but we believe the chalice is Really His blood (and body, soul and divinity).

It means baptism is ... symbolizing wine.

This is getting dangerously close to Mormonism, isn't it? Don't they celebrate their version of Communion with bread and water, rather than with bread and grape juice or wine?

Anyway just a thought.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Only so far as scripture is silent about it being an obligation.

But you have in Hebrews explicitly to not forsake gathering together, you have Our Lord saying wherever two or more are gathered together, and you have Acts and Paul saying Sundays. It's like the rainbow of colors coming out from a prism with white light shining into it. The white shining light isn't in the Bible, but the Bible is just the rainbow, but the Apostolic oral tradition is the Sunday obligation, the white light, that enters into a prism and comes out a rainbow, which we see in the Bible. "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be." The Sunday obligation was in the beginning.

So ... OK it's silent. But it's a rainbow coming out of a prism. We know that means white light is shining into the prism on the other side, on the silent side, which is only silent for you, if you believe only in Sola Scriptura. The Apostles also did teach with their mouths and not just with their pens. And we are more "Sola Apostles" than we are Sola Scriptura. ofc the Apostles teach the Scripture is infallible, reliable, trustworthy, and God's literal Word. So it's like we get our cake and get to eat it too.
 

JudgeRightly

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But you have in Hebrews explicitly to not forsake gathering together, you have Our Lord saying wherever two or more are gathered together,

"Western" thought tends to not think in terms of groups, but rather in terms of individuals.

But the entire nature of Israel's covenant is as a nation as a whole, not many individuals.

Telling people "don't forsake gathering together" and "where two or three are gathered" is entirely consistent with that way of thinking, and not at all consistent with "individuals."

The Body of Christ is one Body made of many members, not a singular nation.

and you have Acts and Paul saying Sundays.

Rather, you have Paul, and Acts 9 onwards, if that, saying that it doesn't matter which day is esteemed holy, so long as it's for God.

It's like the rainbow of colors coming out from a prism with white light shining into it. The white shining light isn't in the Bible, but the Bible is just the rainbow, but the Apostolic oral tradition is the Sunday obligation, the white light, that enters into a prism and comes out a rainbow, which we see in the Bible. "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be." The Sunday obligation was in the beginning.

No, it wasn't.

And we are more "Sola Apostles" than we are Sola Scriptura.

More like "Sola whatever the church teaches the Apostles were saying and not Sola Scriptura at all."

ofc the Apostles teach the Scripture is infallible, reliable, trustworthy, and God's literal Word. So it's like we get our cake and get to eat it too.

But the RCC doesn't act like it, preferring to instead act like they have authority over what scripture says.
 
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Lon

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I don't even know what you're talking about. All I know is I started a thread, arguing that the scandal and crisis of pederasty and pedophilia was not due to faggotry among the ministerial priests and bishops. I was roundly and conclusively shouted down. I licked my wounds, and considered where I went wrong. To me, the question wasn't about whether a priest or bishop was a faggot, but whether or not he was a criminal, and everybody told me no. It's about faggotry.

So I licked my wounds, and I considered all the rumors and stories I had heard, things like that the Church no longer ordains faggots.

And then ofc Pope Francis, to the rescue (as per normal), tells the whole World, we need to get faggotry out of the seminaries.

That was all before Pope John Paul II revised and updated the Catechism, saying faggotry is inherently disordered.

That was all before the electors elected Pope Benedict XVI, who had actually written the words of the Catechism about faggotry being intrinsically disordered and absolutely immoral (John Paul commissioned Benedict to revise and update the Catechism)

And then Francis was elected, and people thought, Oh look, the Roman Catholics are going to start being pro-faggotry. No. This is all based on conspiracy and "dog whistles". Let me tell you about a dog whistle. It's when someone says "faggot", that you know they're no ally of faggotry, and Pope Francis said "faggot" and he said we need to get faggotry out of seminaries. That's a dog whistle. It means to those who can hear it, The Church is never going to change the Apostolic teaching on faggotry, it is absolutely gravely immoral and disordered and diabolic. Period. That's what Francis said, in dog whistle. He's not changing the Church's teaching on faggotry.

So if faggotry in the ministerial priesthood was the root cause of the child sex abuse problem, what more would you want the Roman Catholic Church to do about it, then doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on faggotry being completely gravely sinful, and on directly working to prevent any faggots from ordination?

And believe me, I don't mean faggot in a bad way, I just mean what they do, where their proclivities lie, they can't help it, their disordered desire isn't their own fault, but a faggot is someone who engages in faggotry, and that's what faggot means, is someone who actually engages in faggotry, not just someone who's got a disordered desire or attraction, there are plenty of people who have safely discerned celibacy rather than ever indulge that temptation. Those who have not ever indulged it, are not faggots. Faggots have actually done it. They've dipped their toe in the water, so to speak. That's a faggot. But the one who never does that, even if he wants to do it, is no faggot. He discerns celibacy. There are plenty of people who discern celibacy though they have no such desire, and there are those who do have that desire or attraction or temptation. Celibacy is available to everybody. And sometimes it's just obv what you're called to do.

That's a whole other reason to eschew from the top-down. Here's your sign? When it is as prolific, and not until these issue became public (had been happening over 50 years!), then 'holiness' and 'real-presence' must necessarily be questioned. It is very odd, as a Protestant, you moved to Catholicism during this period in time. When an organization has indulgences, abuses, etc. etc. etc. it is time to question reality, which I certainly did. You simply must begin questioning. I appreciate your stick-to-it-iveness but it has reached a point to where you have to ask yourself what you are willing to eat and drink with your Eucharist. Next? I went to a United Methodist Church and in 1980 the vote went through to allow gay ministers. I was gone. The next church I went to was very serious about protecting families and children. Fingerprints, FBI checks, the works. Good group where I became associate pastor. Serious about their relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and one another. The Eucharist has never been so meaningful to me as there.
 

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But you have in Hebrews explicitly to not forsake gathering together, you have Our Lord saying wherever two or more are gathered together, and you have Acts and Paul saying Sundays.
You are taking that scripture TOTALLY and COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT.

That's not surprising. You and most of Churchianity do that all the time.

That "forsaking gathering together" has NOTHING to do with Sunday. The CONTEXT is the tribulation and the AUDIENCE is Israel.

Regarding the "two of three"... that is talking about THE LAW!

Deut 19:15 (AKJV/PCE)​
(19:15) ¶ One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Paul never specified a "day of worship". Paul says that it's fine to consider all days the same.

Rom 14:5 (AKJV/PCE)​
(14:5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.​
 

Derf

Well-known member
I'm going to take another bite of the apple ... again.

Isn't it interesting that in baptism, the water symbolizes or represents or means or signifies Christ's blood, but if Roman Catholic theology of the Eucharist is correct, then the chalice actually IS His actual blood? The water of baptism is metaphorically, iow, His blood, but we believe the chalice is Really His blood (and body, soul and divinity).

It means baptism is ... symbolizing wine.
Why? Why would one want to symbolize wine? Wouldn't it be because wine reminds us of something else? Otherwise, we are worshiping wine. Do we worship Jesus' blood? Or do we worship the one Who gave His blood? Do we worship the body? Doesn't that mean we worship the church at least as much as the chalice? But neither seems appropriate in place of worshiping the One whom those things are named after. We are Christians, named after Christ. But we, like Paul and Barnabas, don't accept worship. Only Christ is worthy. So if His body (the Church) and His little namesakes (Christians), eschew worship, wouldn't the wafer and chalice also, if they could speak?
This is getting dangerously close to Mormonism, isn't it? Don't they celebrate their version of Communion with bread and water, rather than with bread and grape juice or wine?
Pretend churches always get dangerously close to true faith.
Anyway just a thought.
I'm glad you're thinking and rethinking about it.
 
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