drbrumley
Well-known member
Well coming from someone who doesn't teach Jesus is God, can't say I didn't expect that.
The Jesus Club
- Thread starter iouae
- Start date
Well coming from someone who doesn't teach Jesus is God, can't say I didn't expect that.
:up:
You see, you follow man's teachings, not Jesus'
I am done with meaningless bickering.
that always happen with you and me.
I feel so filthy after talking to you.
good day.
Here is just a little of the Testimony they are flatly denying:
John 11:25-26 ~ Yeshua said to her, I am the Resurrection, and the Life: the one who is faithfully-trusting into me, though dying, yet shall live: and whosoever is living and faithfully-trusting into me shall never die. Believe you this?
And of course what passage is this taken from?
The raising of Lazarus from the dead.
They are so dead they cannot see the light for all the earth upon their graves.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Guess I better get baptized then huh?
drbrumley
Well-known member
Meshak, I believe EVERY WORD of the bible is to everyone. From Genesis thru Revelation. The Old Testament to the New Testament. The entire Bible is summed up in one word, JESUS! The Old foretold of His coming, the gospels present His incarnation. Paul's epistles speaks of the resurrection and the life we have thru Him now.
iouae
Well-known member
1Co 15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Our friend Paul compares the resurrection of the dead to sowing of seed.
And there is a time while seed lies dormant in the ground.
Whether dead or alive we are hid with the Lord.
Col 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
What is that IT Paul is talking about?
A BODY. A natural BODY (and a spiritual BODY).
And that natural BODY lies dormant in the ground.
1 Cor. 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Then why are you claiming we lie dormant in the grave?
The rest of that verse may clear it up for you. From the moment we are risen with Christ at our salvation, we are ALIVE (your life) is hid with Christ in God. How can our LIFE be hid with Christ in God, and us be unconscious with our body in the grave?
Colossians 3:1-3
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
iouae
Well-known member
Rom 4:17
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
glorydaz
Well-known member
That's the problem with taking things out of context.
You end up claiming the verse applies to what it does not. In this verse, Paul is speaking of Abraham in his old age ...how God who is able to quicken the dead was also able to quicken old Abraham to produce a son in his old age.
Romans 4:17-18 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
That we are risen with Christ speaks of our inner man, not our body of flesh. Our spirit is quickened by the Holy Spirit, and that happens the moment we believe the Gospel of Salvation.
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
iouae
Well-known member
That's the problem with taking things out of context.
You end up claiming the verse applies to what it does not. In this verse, Paul is speaking of Abraham in his old age ...how God who is able to quicken the dead was also able to quicken old Abraham to produce a son in his old age.
Romans 4:17-18 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
That we are risen with Christ speaks of our inner man, not our body of flesh. Our spirit is quickened by the Holy Spirit, and that happens the moment we believe the Gospel of Salvation.
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
The principle stands. What God said to Ab, applies to us - spiritual offspring of Ab.
God "calleth those things which be not as though they were."
So we are made alive to spiritual matters, and we will be made alive after death.
So when Paul speaks of us as already quickened, that is true, but will apply in its fullest extent when resurrected in a glorious, immortal, spirit body.
And if there is a "sleep" between seed and new plant springing from the ground/grave, that is nothing to God or me.
You know what would be quickest? Going straight to heaven and to the throne and crowned as we come out of the water from our baptism...THAT would be a quickening...
Instead we are to remain and abide in His love until the end...not to avoid this world our duty...but to fully understand what we have been saved from...and then rest to awaken to our reward...when it finally becomes indeed on earth as it is in heaven...without sin...the Law kept as by our new nature...naturally
A reward received BTW all at once not piecemeal and sneak previewed spoiled as a christmas gifted opened before hand by tearing a little peice of the wrapping off...which is exactly going to heaven in spirit form and then coming back to get the real deal...LOL...all fake happy and stuff pretending we didnt know...LOL...”you look so nice in your new dress” “what this old thing?”
Ecclesiastes 3:19
For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.
Genesis 7:15
So they went into the ark to Noah, by twos of all flesh in which was the breath of life.
jsanford108
New member
With all due respect, I heartily disagree. God's breath must be special, as it gave life. If I breathe onto a sculpture of clay, I will never bring it to life.
If I breathe into the mouth of a person, that does not bring them to life.
Let us keep in mind, this is the breath of God; he who but spoke and all creation became reality.
iouae
Well-known member
You raise a good question why all are going to be rewarded at once, at Christ's return.
Christ said he went to prepare a place for us. Obviously he has a certain number of positions to fill.
And presumably the job is to rule the nations, so there would be nothing for us to do in heaven till Christ returns anyway.
iouae
Well-known member
If you were God and had created a human who was alive but not breathing, then you apply mouth to mouth recitation, and the person lives.
Any explanation which does not require a supernatural element to make sense, trumps an argument which requires one - all other things being equal, Ockham and all that.
Also, are you saying it is the "spirit" in man which is supernatural, or the "soul", or both?
Your analogy reminds me of this...
https://youtu.be/sl9pTDK8PAk
But your argument is an appeal to emotion, which is a logical fallacy.
First of all, the "fire" is an analogy of the type of pain that those who are separated from God (because they rejected him) will experience for all eternity. To be burnt requires a physical object to be burned. Those in the lake of fire do not have bodies, because they were never given new bodies after they were resurrected to be judged, therefore they will not "burn" as if in a fire, but the pain will be as if they are being burned.
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:11-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation20:11-15&version=NKJV
*cough*GT*cough*