The Israel-Palestine conflict: a brief, simple history

[jamie]

I am stating a historical fact. We didn't "desert" the land of Israel. We were driven out.

Do you not believe God had reason to evict Israel? The problem as I see it is that there is a lesson to be learned, a lesson not yet learned. That lesson has to do with faith. Do you have faith that God will provide for Israel or is it that Israel must take matters into its own hands?

I believe Israel should vacate land they are not legally entitled to possess.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Do you not believe God had reason to evict Israel? The problem as I see it is that there is a lesson to be learned, a lesson not yet learned. That lesson has to do with faith. Do you have faith that God will provide for Israel or is it that Israel must take matters into its own hands?

I believe Israel should vacate land they are not legally entitled to possess.

Joel 3:2 has something to say to you.

; )

 

[beameup]

Really? Where was God? Was God preoccupied?

God doesn't "wear a watch". He does things His way in His "time".

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,
that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,
and a thousand years as one day. - 2 Peter 3:8

 

[chair]

Do you not believe God had reason to evict Israel? The problem as I see it is that there is a lesson to be learned, a lesson not yet learned. That lesson has to do with faith. Do you have faith that God will provide for Israel or is it that Israel must take matters into its own hands?

I believe Israel should vacate land they are not legally entitled to possess.

 

[chair]

Do you not believe God had reason to evict Israel? The problem as I see it is that there is a lesson to be learned, a lesson not yet learned. That lesson has to do with faith. Do you have faith that God will provide for Israel or is it that Israel must take matters into its own hands?

I believe Israel should vacate land they are not legally entitled to possess.

Jamie,

You are making two separate arguments here. One religious, the other political and legal.

When you speak as God's representative, and say that "a lesson has not been learned"- the only response I can give you is that if God is behind events- then you are clearly wrong.

As far as 'legal rights', much ink has been spilled over that. There is no getting away from the fact that Israel's existence as a state is legal. In many ways more legal than the existence of the US. It is a historic fact that nearly all countries, and their current borders, are a result of wars and invasions.

Nor can one get around the fact that the 'West Bank' was captured in a defensive war. And the facts remain, despite the common rhetoric, that Israel has made considerable efforts to make peace with the 'Palestinians'- and those efforts have been rejected over and over. It is also a fact that the areas today controlled by the Palestinian Authority were given to them by the Israelis. And Gaza, which was controlled completely by Israel, was given to them as well.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Jamie,

You are making two separate arguments here. One religious, the other political and legal.

When you speak as God's representative, and say that "a lesson has not been learned"- the only response I can give you is that if God is behind events- then you are clearly wrong.

As far as 'legal rights', much ink has been spilled over that. There is no getting away from the fact that Israel's existence as a state is legal. In many ways more legal than the existence of the US. It is a historic fact that nearly all countries, and their current borders, are a result of wars and invasions.

Nor can one get around the fact that the 'West Bank' was captured in a defensive war. And the facts remain, despite the common rhetoric, that Israel has made considerable efforts to make peace with the 'Palestinians'- and those efforts have been rejected over and over. It is also a fact that the areas today controlled by the Palestinian Authority were given to them by the Israelis. And Gaza, which was controlled completely by Israel, was given to them as well.

Well spoken!

Every piece of the "6 days war" land that Israel has given as an offering of piece has become an assault front to attack Israel!

My favorite quote is from Golda Meir....

“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."

 

[jamie]

There is no getting away from the fact that Israel's existence as a state is legal.

The occupied land issue is a combination of political and religious.

From a political standpoint the State of Israel is a legal entity established by men with assigned borders that the political leaders of Israel agreed to in accepting international recognition as an independent entity. Israel should honor its word, that's the basis for integrity.

Each time Israel was attacked God intervened to preserve Israel and he will continue to do so if Israel acts honorably within the context of its international agreement. A nation should be as good as its word and taking a neighbor's land is not a sign of acting in good faith.

The State of Israel should honor its word and relinquish captured land. The West Bank settlements should be turned over to the Arabs, if not today at least by tomorrow. Why should Israel bring a curse on itself by acting dishonorably?

 

[chair]

. A nation should be as good as its word and taking a neighbor's land is not a sign of acting in good faith.

I am not sure what "our word" is in this context. Nor do I follow why we are supposed to return land to our enemies. I can point out that Israel returned the vast majority of the land captured in 1967. To Egypt. After they signed a peace treaty with Israel.

 

[balut55]

Do you not believe God had reason to evict Israel? The problem as I see it is that there is a lesson to be learned, a lesson not yet learned. That lesson has to do with faith. Do you have faith that God will provide for Israel or is it that Israel must take matters into its own hands?

I believe Israel should vacate land they are not legally entitled to possess.

The remnant shall be saved.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The remnant will grow larger. God is bringing them back from 1948 to now. I don't care what man says.

Do you see Trump's Israel tunnel vision? 70 nations meet on Jan 15 to enforce the resolution.
"When the LORD your God extends your border as He has promised you, and you say, 'I will eat meat,' because you desire to eat meat, then you may eat meat, whatever you desire



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[jamie]

Israel's longest war lasted 1 year 3 months and 10 days starting November 30, 1947. The Arab countries signed armistice agreements with Israel in 1949, starting with Egypt (Feb. 24), followed by Lebanon (March 23), Jordan (April 3) and Syria (July 20). Iraq was the only country that did not sign an agreement with Israel, choosing instead to withdraw its troops and hand over its sector to Jordan's Arab Legion.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/1948_War.html

At the beginning of March 1949, talks began on the island of Rhodes between Israeli and Jordanian representatives under the chairmanship of Ralph Bunche. The major issues raised by Israel were free access to Jewish Holy Places in Jerusalem, border rectification, and the presence of Iraqi forces in the West Bank. Jordan sought to raise the Arab refugee question and the question of passage from the Old City of Jerusalem to Bethlehem. On April 3, the agreement was signed, fixing the armistice line of the West Bank, transferring to Israel a number of Arab villages in the central part of the country and providing for a mixed committee to work out arrangements in Jerusalem.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/isjorarm.html​

The West Bank was declared part of Jordanian territory after Israel and Jordan signed armistice agreements in 1949. The West Bank was captured by Israel in 1967 and has not been relinquished. Why?

 

[balut55]

The answer is in the Bible. Here lies the crux of things. This is fulfillment of a bible prophecy.

And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Weather you believe or not the big war is coming because Israel won't budge or only budge temporarily. Yeshua is king. Read the Bible.


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[chair]

...The West Bank was declared part of Jordanian territory after Israel and Jordan signed armistice agreements in 1949. The West Bank was captured by Israel in 1967 and has not been relinquished. Why?​

Jordan gave up on the West Bank. They no longer want it- as far as they are concerned the Palestinians can have it. The Palestinians have refused to sign a peace agreement. Take a look at a map. If Israel gave "back" (it isn't 'back', since there wasn't a country called Palestine earlier) that land to people who refuse to sign a peace treaty- it will be suicidal.​

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Israel's longest war lasted 1 year 3 months and 10 days starting November 30, 1947. The Arab countries signed armistice agreements with Israel in 1949, starting with Egypt (Feb. 24), followed by Lebanon (March 23), Jordan (April 3) and Syria (July 20). Iraq was the only country that did not sign an agreement with Israel, choosing instead to withdraw its troops and hand over its sector to Jordan's Arab Legion.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/1948_War.html

At the beginning of March 1949, talks began on the island of Rhodes between Israeli and Jordanian representatives under the chairmanship of Ralph Bunche. The major issues raised by Israel were free access to Jewish Holy Places in Jerusalem, border rectification, and the presence of Iraqi forces in the West Bank. Jordan sought to raise the Arab refugee question and the question of passage from the Old City of Jerusalem to Bethlehem. On April 3, the agreement was signed, fixing the armistice line of the West Bank, transferring to Israel a number of Arab villages in the central part of the country and providing for a mixed committee to work out arrangements in Jerusalem.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/isjorarm.html​

The West Bank was declared part of Jordanian territory after Israel and Jordan signed armistice agreements in 1949. The West Bank was captured by Israel in 1967 and has not been relinquished. Why?

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, not Tel Aviv. How can you claim to understand scripture and deny what Israel is? Israel has always been Israel! Jews never deserted Israel. It was named Palestine as an insult. What gives Jamie?

 

[beameup]

I am not sure what "our word" is in this context. Nor do I follow why we are supposed to return land to our enemies. I can point out that Israel returned the vast majority of the land captured in 1967. To Egypt. After they signed a peace treaty with Israel.

"Gaza" would be a good test-case of unilaterally returning land. How'd that work out?
The Palestinians were so happy that they used the opportunity to made a wonderful, peaceful place, right? :rotfl:

 

[jamie]

If Israel gave "back" (it isn't 'back', since there wasn't a country called Palestine earlier) that land to people who refuse to sign a peace treaty- it will be suicidal.

Does Israel have legal right to the West Bank? Is that right based on a treaty with the Arabs? Is it based on international law? What is the basis for Israel's claim to the West Bank?

Giving up Arab land would be suicidal? I disagree. According to the NT there was a fault with God's first covenant with Israel. Do you know what that fault was?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Does Israel have legal right to the West Bank? Is that right based on a treaty with the Arabs? Is it based on international law? What is the basis for Israel's claim to the West Bank?

Giving up Arab land would be suicidal? I disagree. According to the NT there was a fault with God's first covenant with Israel. Do you know what that fault was?

Yes! 6 days war spoils. In case you live in America, you do realize you live on the spoils of war, right? But hey... why use logic?

 

[jamie]

A Jewish state? Isn't that a nice term for segregation? Is that what people should support?

The U.S. has a long history of segregation and some people still promote it. Should South Africa be segregated? Should Alabama be segregated? Should Israel be segregated?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident that ..."

Many believe this, some don't.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

A Jewish state? Isn't that a nice term for segregation? Is that what people should support?

The U.S. has a long history of segregation and some people still promote it. Should South Africa be segregated? Should Alabama be segregated? Should Israel be segregated?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident that ..."

Many believe this, some don't.

Israel is as Democratic as America! They are the only true Democracy in all of the Middle East. Do you go to a liberal University or something?

What is your beef with the Jews?

 

[jamie]

Yes! 6 days war spoils. In case you live in America, you do realize you live on the spoils of war, right? But hey... why use logic?

Logic? Texas was ceded to the U.S. in a legal treaty. Has the West Bank been ceded to Israel in a legal treaty?

How is comparing apples and oranges logical? There is currently no land dispute between the U.S. and Mexico.

 

[jamie]

What is your beef with the Jews?

What was God's beef with the "Jews" when he invited the Romans to remove them?

You're probably not aware that there was a fault in God's first covenant with Jacob's people. To this day that fault has not been resolved.