The Incarnation of the WORD

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popsthebuilder

New member
Apple7 said:
From previous discussion, you exhibited some cultic ideas...
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I am not aligned with a homoousian perspective.

I am more aligned with a view of the trinity similar to that of arianism. I believe that the Father beget the Son. I feel they are the same but that one is GOD, and the other is the word of GOD. It's relevance is the potential for man to blindly worship man which can lead to atrocities against mankind as has been seen in history and present day.

I guess you've been well.

Peace
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Apple7 said:
From previous discussion, you exhibited some cultic ideas...
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If you mean by "cultic" not main stream then yes. I am very open to people having different means to receiving the gospel, yet I have a problem with particular doctrine that is in my opinion from the whore of Babylon. I speak of the first counsel of Nicaea.
 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
popsthebuilder said:
I am not aligned with a homoousian perspective.

I am more aligned with a view of the trinity similar to that of arianism. I believe that the Father beget the Son. I feel they are the same but that one is GOD, and the other is the word of GOD. It's relevance is the potential for man to blindly worship man which can lead to atrocities against mankind as has been seen in history and present day.

I guess you've been well.

Peace
Click to expand...


Please elaborate...
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
Apple7 said:
Please elaborate...
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The word is of GOD. It is for our sake, to follow that pure essence. Not for the sake of God, but for the sake of what he made. Not GOD fully, as if we could comprehend the fullness of GOD, but our direction under, and of him. Subsidiary to him. God and the holy spirit are eternal. The son of man is not. The spirit is life, the flesh is but a temporary binding of the spirit which is eternal. Greed is temporary. Only the light of GOD is eternal, his will.

Kind of ranting perhaps.

Father- One Creator GOD

Holy Spirit- essence of the One Creator GOD

Son- GOD's creation.



A problem with literally equating man to GOD is that it misconstrues the line between creation(son) and the actual will of God(holy spirit). This can and does have obvious negative effects such as rationalizing negative acts of man, placing creation over creation in negative, false hierarchy, actually going against the will of God and subjugating others to the point of massive atrocities against mankind and life in general. The will of man cannot and must not be intertwined with the will of GOD. To place even the blessed, holy, pure name of of Jesus of Nazareth the Christ as man at utter equivilency to GOD is flawed doctrine. The Holy Spirit was in him wholly, but he wasn't freed from his duty on earth in this physical existence until his spirit, the Holy Spirit was set free. The Christ did not give himself duty. The Christ did not cry to himself. The spirit left the body. His will, given by God was and is for our sake. Indeed the will of GOD, yet not for the sake of GOD.

One thing; negativity stops knowledge from passing from one to another.

I humbly ask that we discuss in a leveled, mutually respectful tone.

Respectfully, and with humility,

Peace
 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
popsthebuilder said:
The word is of GOD. It is for our sake, to follow that pure essence. Not for the sake of God, but for the sake of what he made. Not GOD fully, as if we could comprehend the fullness of GOD, but our direction under, and of him. Subsidiary to him. God and the holy spirit are eternal. The son of man is not. The spirit is life, the flesh is but a temporary binding of the spirit which is eternal. Greed is temporary. Only the light of GOD is eternal, his will.

Kind of ranting perhaps.

Father- One Creator GOD

Holy Spirit- essence of the One Creator GOD

Son- GOD's creation.



A problem with literally equating man to GOD is that it misconstrues the line between creation(son) and the actual will of God(holy spirit). This can and does have obvious negative effects such as rationalizing negative acts of man, placing creation over creation in negative, false hierarchy, actually going against the will of God and subjugating others to the point of massive atrocities against mankind and life in general. The will of man cannot and must not be intertwined with the will of GOD. To place even the blessed, holy, pure name of of Jesus of Nazareth the Christ as man at utter equivilency to GOD is flawed doctrine. The Holy Spirit was in him wholly, but he wasn't freed from his duty on earth in this physical existence until his spirit, the Holy Spirit was set free. The Christ did not give himself duty. The Christ did not cry to himself. The spirit left the body. His will, given by God was and is for our sake. Indeed the will of GOD, yet not for the sake of GOD.

One thing; negativity stops knowledge from passing from one to another.

I humbly ask that we discuss in a leveled, mutually respectful tone.

Respectfully, and with humility,

Peace
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Pops,

If you deny that Jesus is Theos, then how do you deal with scripture such as this - where Jesus is referred to as Theos...?

Titus 2.13

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου

prosdechomenoi tēn makarian elpida kai epiphaneian tēs doxēs tou megalou theou kai sōtēros hēmōn christou iēsou

Looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Not that I expressly reject the idea as stated, but;

Does it not state " the great God AND OUR savior"?

Distinguished as different in the very scripture you quote Sir.

Peace
 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
popsthebuilder said:
Not that I expressly reject the idea as stated, but;

Does it not state " the great God AND OUR savior"?

Distinguished as different in the very scripture you quote Sir.

Peace
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Pops,

Actually, Titus 2.13 adheres to the established rule of Greek Grammar called TSKS, and is defined as thus...

In native Greek constructions (i.e., not translation Greek), when a single article modifies two substantives connected via και (thus, article-substantive-και-substantive), when both substantives are (1) singular (both grammatically and semantically), (2) personal, (3) and common nouns (not proper names or ordinals), they have the same referent.”

Ref:
Granville Sharp’s Canon and its Kin; Semantics and Significance
2009 Daniel B. Wallace
p. 281


Thus, based purely on the merits of Greek grammar, alone, both Theos & Savior have the same referent, Jesus Christ.

This, then, makes Jesus Theos.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
popsthebuilder said:
To place even the blessed, holy, pure name of of Jesus of Nazareth the Christ as man at utter equivilency to GOD is flawed doctrine.
Click to expand...

Paul disagrees.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1:15-16 NKJV)​

John disagrees.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made that was made. (John 1:1-3 NKJV)​

If this is true then Christ was the Creator and was God.

This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that YHVH God made the earth and the heavens. (Genesis 2:4 NKJV)​

The word "LORD" is the KJV equivalent of YHVH which means self existing.
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
Apple7 said:
Pops,

Actually, Titus 2.13 adheres to the established rule of Greek Grammar called TSKS, and is defined as thus...

In native Greek constructions (i.e., not translation Greek), when a single article modifies two substantives connected via και (thus, article-substantive-και-substantive), when both substantives are (1) singular (both grammatically and semantically), (2) personal, (3) and common nouns (not proper names or ordinals), they have the same referent.”

Ref:
Granville Sharp’s Canon and its Kin; Semantics and Significance
2009 Daniel B. Wallace
p. 281


Thus, based purely on the merits of Greek grammar, alone, both Theos & Savior have the same referent, Jesus Christ.

This, then, makes Jesus Theos.
Click to expand...
The same yet different as one is GOD and one is our direction under GOD. The savior is our way to GOD. He holds back the wrath that we deserve from GOD and shews mercy by Grace. Why would GOD pay for the sins of man himself? What lesson does that teach. Christ was sent to us that we may understand the will of God by example. That we might fathom the direction of God although we cannot grasp his glory wholly.
Again I do not even deny that the holy spirit is GOD. I state that man cannot be utterly equivalent to the One Creator, as he himself was created, by GOD, and not eternal unlike GOD. Christ is the holy spirit.

The hole argument removes one from the direction of God in favor of division based on differences that I personally cannot even discern.

What position is it of mine that you have issue with?

Respectfully,

Jerry
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
jamie said:
Paul disagrees.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1:15-16 NKJV)​

John disagrees.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made that was made. (John 1:1-3 NKJV)​

If this is true then Christ was the Creator and was God.

This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that YHVH God made the earth and the heavens. (Genesis 2:4 NKJV)​

The word "LORD" is the KJV equivalent of YHVH which means self existing.
Click to expand...
Which man is not, yet the holy spirit is.

You conflate Christ with man, instead of the Holy Spirit.

Peace
 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
popsthebuilder said:
The same yet different as one is GOD and one is our direction under GOD. The savior is our way to GOD. He holds back the wrath that we deserve from GOD and shews mercy by Grace. Why would GOD pay for the sins of man himself? What lesson does that teach. Christ was sent to us that we may understand the will of God by example. That we might fathom the direction of God although we cannot grasp his glory wholly.
Again I do not even deny that the holy spirit is GOD. I state that man cannot be utterly equivalent to the One Creator, as he himself was created, by GOD, and not eternal unlike GOD. Christ is the holy spirit.

The hole argument removes one from the direction of God in favor of division based on differences that I personally cannot even discern.

What position is it of mine that you have issue with?

Respectfully,

Jerry
Click to expand...


Jerry,

Testing the depth of your waters, with the Greek verse that I presented, clearly shows that you lack scriptural understanding of who Jesus really is.

Jesus is Theos on the merits of the established rules of Greek grammar, all by itself - independent of your willful rejection of it.
 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
jamie said:
Paul disagrees.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1:15-16 NKJV)​

John disagrees.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made that was made. (John 1:1-3 NKJV)​

If this is true then Christ was the Creator and was God.

This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that YHVH God made the earth and the heavens. (Genesis 2:4 NKJV)​

The word "LORD" is the KJV equivalent of YHVH which means self existing.
Click to expand...

:up:
 
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