The house of Israel and the house of Judah.

[Epoisses]

Sadly, what you say above, is often true.

However, if one is going to go to church, why not do it on the only day commanded in scripture, the Sabbath?

And if one is going to spend time with God, why not do it on the only day commanded to do so in scripture, the Sabbath?

And were you referring to this verse?
Col 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

This verse could be used by Sabbath keepers, who were being judged by the outside world, and persecuted. It was folks keeping the Sabbath who ended up in the Roman arena in the first century.

The Sabbath is a 'shadow' nothing more that pointed forward to the rest that is found only in Christ. Sin is hard work and labor intensive. Those who confessed Christ in the 1st century ended up in the arena, lol

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matt. 11:28-30

 

[Danoh]

I checked out Eph 5 and could not find where Adam and Eve were a picture of Christ and the church.

I did find this...
Eph 5:31
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Adam did not leave his father and mother, so I think this is a general metaphor that Christ and the church is similar to a marriage.

BTW we are not the ACTUAL bride of Christ, but we are LIKE a bride to Christ.

Yep - he is referring to their union into one entity - which is mystical in that although the man and the woman are, and continue to function as two separate entities, at the same time, they also function as one.

Nothing like loving one's significant other, and vice-versa.

Joying when they do; hurting when they do.

Looking over at them.

Other times, finding them looking over at one, a warm loving smile on their face.

Walking hand in hand with them.

That sort of thing.

Two...and yet...one.

Thus, Adam's words to Eve that she was now of his very flesh.

That right there was the very first marriage ceremony - those simple words.

Anyway, Paul goes into a very similar description in 1 Corinthians 12 - his letter to the Corinthians - one heck of a "Divorce Court" of an Assembly, if there ever was one.

Nevertheles, Rom. 14:5, in memory of Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[iouae]

Nevertheles, Rom. 14:5,

Because of scriptures like this, I believe Sabbath keeping, and Sabbath-not-keeping Christians will sit with Christ at the "marriage" supper, and be equally surprised that the other is there. And, God forbid, there might even be a pope there.

 

[Danoh]

Because of scriptures like this, I believe Sabbath keeping, and Sabbath-not-keeping Christians will sit with Christ at the "marriage" supper, and be equally surprised that the other is there. And, God forbid, there might even be a pope there.

If each was actually in Christ; yes.

For outside of that, one or the other's confusion will prove theirs had been more than mere confusion.

Will prove theirs had been that they had remained lost...all along!

Only Rom. 5:6-8 had been only towards them - had not been about them.

And there appear to be some of those on here, as well.

 

[Zeke]

Shalom.

I have accepted Jesus' words in Matthew 5:17-20 as for me. I have accepted the covenant upon myself. I keep and teach the Commandments in obedience to Jesus' word and teaching, for it is then that I am great or to be great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [a]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [c]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Shalom.

Jacob

Matt 11:11 so John (all have sinned) who judged by appearance according to the flesh was one of the greatest born of the flesh yet would be least in the kingdom of heaven within us Luke 17:20-21, belief built on outward observation of "time" past or Future is the achilles of both traditional Jew and Gentile when the outer court of the temple (not made with hands) isn't measured by the rod/christ another clue as to why Paul states neither exist in Christ, nor in those awakened to the Christ within them, all are one with no beginning or ending, a mortal mind can only exist in time along with birth and death the dance of dualism where Jew and Gentile live and die in eternities shadow.

.

 

[Jacob]

Matt 11:11 so John (all have sinned) who judged by appearance according to the flesh was one of the greatest born of the flesh yet would be least in the kingdom of heaven within us Luke 17:20-21, belief built on outward observation of "time" past or Future is the achilles of both traditional Jew and Gentile when the outer court of the temple (not made with hands) isn't measured by the rod/christ another clue as to why Paul states neither exist in Christ, nor in those awakened to the Christ within them, all are one with no beginning or ending, a mortal mind can only exist in time along with birth and death the dance of dualism where Jew and Gentile live and die in eternities shadow.

.

I do not know what you are saying. However, I know that there is a difference between saying that the kingdom of God is within you and the kingdom of God is in your midst.

 

[iouae]

The Sabbath is a 'shadow' nothing more that pointed forward to the rest that is found only in Christ.

Lets suppose the "church in the wilderness" with its laws was a shadow of the NT church, which comprises the body of Christ, which body is law abiding, just like the church in the wilderness tried to be.

Sabbath keeping is more real today than it was back then, just as Epoisses is more real than Epoisses shadow.

When I see your shadow approaching, I get a feeling for you. But the real you is more solid than your shadow. Sabbath keeping in Christ is more real than Sabbath keeping which is imposed from outside. It is done now to draw near to God because we want to, not because we have to under threat of punishment. Nobody picks up stones if I, say, watch TV on the Sabbath.

 

[Epoisses]

Lets suppose the "church in the wilderness" with its laws was a shadow of the NT church, which comprises the body of Christ, which body is law abiding, just like the church in the wilderness tried to be.

Sabbath keeping is more real today than it was back then, just as Epoisses is more real than Epoisses shadow.

When I see your shadow approaching, I get a feeling for you. But the real you is more solid than your shadow. Sabbath keeping in Christ is more real than Sabbath keeping which is imposed from outside. It is done now to draw near to God because we want to, not because we have to under threat of punishment. Nobody picks up stones if I, say, watch TV on the Sabbath.

So go keep the Sabbath then. Are you trying to convince me or yourself? Go figure out if it's lawful to push an elevator button on Saturday.

 

[iouae]

So go keep the Sabbath then. Are you trying to convince me or yourself? Go figure out if it's lawful to push an elevator button on Saturday.

Far be it from me to try to force a 52-day-a-year holiday on you.

I don't want to force upon you the ability to drop all working, and responsibilities and worries at Friday sunset, to pick up your worldly responsibilities on Saturday evening. I know that you like to be responsible 24/7.

Far be it from me to force you to spend 24 hours with God a week in one big block. That would be terrible.

I know that these are busy times, and we like to work and shop, and a pesky one day a week would really crimp our working and shopping, and sporting. I would not deny you these.

Jesus was mobbed six days a week, but keeping the Sabbath helped him keep his sanity so that he was not stretched to breaking point. I would not want you denied time to work and worry full time, because I know your constitution can take it.

 

[Epoisses]

Far be it from me to try to force a 52-day-a-year holiday on you.

I don't want to force upon you the ability to drop all working, and responsibilities and worries at Friday sunset, to pick up your worldly responsibilities on Saturday evening. I know that you like to be responsible 24/7.

Far be it from me to force you to spend 24 hours with God a week in one big block. That would be terrible.

I know that these are busy times, and we like to work and shop, and a pesky one day a week would really crimp our working and shopping, and sporting. I would not deny you these.

Jesus was mobbed six days a week, but keeping the Sabbath helped him keep his sanity so that he was not stretched to breaking point. I would not want you denied time to work and worry full time, because I know your constitution can take it.

I was an SDA for 10 years so I know more about Sabbath-keeping then you ever will. Go keep it and we'll see what happens to you when you have no faith and are cut off from grace forever. Adventism and Dispensationalism are the two biggest cults of our day.

 

[iouae]

I was an SDA for 10 years so I know more about Sabbath-keeping then you ever will. Go keep it and we'll see what happens to you when you have no faith and are cut off from grace forever. Adventism and Dispensationalism are the two biggest cults of our day.

The problem with the Adventists is not their keeping the Sabbath, but their worship of Ellen White.

There are big problems in the sabbath keeping community. That does not stop the Sabbath being my favourite day of the week.

As an ex-Adventist, surely you don't believe you have "no faith and are cut off from grace forever" or even that the average Adventist has "no faith and are cut off from grace forever". I found the Adventists to be nice Christians, seduced by Ellen. But they seemed to be people of grace and faith.

 

[Epoisses]

The problem with the Adventists is not their keeping the Sabbath, but their worship of Ellen White.

There are big problems in the sabbath keeping community. That does not stop the Sabbath being my favourite day of the week.

As an ex-Adventist, surely you don't believe you have "no faith and are cut off from grace forever" or even that the average Adventist has "no faith and are cut off from grace forever". I found the Adventists to be nice Christians, seduced by Ellen. But they seemed to be people of grace and faith.

Shows how much you know. When someone is all into the Sabbath like yourself it shows that you are not into the gospel anymore. If Christ were all sufficient you would not need 'extra righteousness' from Sabbath keeping. Adventists will preach Christ and grace and faith but it's just empty words from empty people who are forever wedded to the law and the Sabbath. I was an Adventist back in the 90's back when I didn't know the gospel so what they teach can seem very believable. The best lies are a mixture of law and grace and the Adventist mixture is very powerful. The gospel plus the Sabbath seduces people every day. Once the devil gets you to trust in your good works it's just downhill from there.

 

[Danoh]

I was an SDA for 10 years so I know more about Sabbath-keeping then you ever will. Go keep it and we'll see what happens to you when you have no faith and are cut off from grace forever. Adventism and Dispensationalism are the two biggest cults of our day.

No wonder your rabid bent against Dispys.

All you have done is traded in one form of rabid insistence for another.

For you certainly do not display any kind of a New Coveant grace towards those you conclude are "without."

Rom. 5:6-8 towards ya, anyway.

 

[iouae]

Shows how much you know. When someone is all into the Sabbath like yourself it shows that you are not into the gospel anymore. If Christ were all sufficient you would not need 'extra righteousness' from Sabbath keeping. Adventists will preach Christ and grace and faith but it's just empty words from empty people who are forever wedded to the law and the Sabbath. I was an Adventist back in the 90's back when I didn't know the gospel so what they teach can seem very believable. The best lies are a mixture of law and grace and the Adventist mixture is very powerful. The gospel plus the Sabbath seduces people every day. Once the devil gets you to trust in your good works it's just downhill from there.

One can avoid committing adultery because one believes it breaks God's law.
Likewise one can avoid breaking the Sabbath, because one believes that would be to break the law.

Where your logic derails is that I don't believe my keeping a few of the 613 OT laws, or a few of the 1050 NT rules saves me. The purpose of the law is to tell me what sin is. It is like a mirror. It shows me that I have an acne problem. When the mirror has showed me my state, its job is done.

Only Christ can save me, and clean me up, and, by analogy, cure my acne.
Thus I have all faith in Him and His grace, just like most other Christians.
Most Christians keep some laws. They don't make as big a fuss about it, but they do, while still believing in faith and grace.

It sounds like you had a torrid time leaving Adventism. For a year I fellowshipped with them. I found them delightful. But I could see that they would never change or grow or believe anything not endorsed by Ellen. Like most Sabbath keepers, keeping the Sabbath makes them feel much happier about themselves - almost like they are meeting God half-way, which is half way further than non-Sabbath-keepers. Thus they have a certain smugness.

 

[Epoisses]

No wonder your rabid bent against Dispys.

All you have done is traded in one form of rabid insistence for another.

For you certainly do not display any kind of a New Coveant grace towards those you conclude are "without."

Rom. 5:6-8 towards ya, anyway.

You don't even believe in the new covenant!!!!

Be gone infidel.

 

[Epoisses]

One can avoid committing adultery because one believes it breaks God's law.
Likewise one can avoid breaking the Sabbath, because one believes that would be to break the law.

Where your logic derails is that I don't believe my keeping a few of the 613 OT laws, or a few of the 1050 NT rules saves me. The purpose of the law is to tell me what sin is. It is like a mirror. It shows me that I have an acne problem. When the mirror has showed me my state, its job is done.

Only Christ can save me, and clean me up, and, by analogy, cure my acne.
Thus I have all faith in Him and His grace, just like most other Christians.
Most Christians keep some laws. They don't make as big a fuss about it, but they do, while still believing in faith and grace.

It sounds like you had a torrid time leaving Adventism. For a year I fellowshipped with them. I found them delightful. But I could see that they would never change or grow or believe anything not endorsed by Ellen. Like most Sabbath keepers, keeping the Sabbath makes them feel much happier about themselves - almost like they are meeting God half-way, which is half way further than non-Sabbath-keepers. Thus they have a certain smugness.

If you haven't figured out you are a sinner by now the law is not going to help.

Do you really need a law to tell you killing or adultery or theft is wrong?

Atheists know those things are wrong, lol.

 

[iouae]

If you haven't figured out you are a sinner by now the law is not going to help.

Do you really need a law to tell you killing or adultery or theft is wrong?

Atheists know those things are wrong, lol.

My belief is that salvation is about being a friend of God.
And being a friend of someone is mainly about spending time with him and enjoying his company.

As a friend of someone, you are not going to steal his cutlery or wife because you don't want to lose his friendship. Friendship is what motivates one to not steal or commit adultery.

 

[Jacob]

It appears I wasted my time on someone who has no ears or eyes. Them's the breaks!

The house of Israel and the house of Judah are described in the TaNaK.

 

[Jacob]

The house of Israel and the house of Judah are described in the TaNaK.

 

[Jacob]

Then why don't you read it. Then you'd know where the house of Judah and house of Israel came from.

1Kgs 11:7-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:7) Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that [is] before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. (11:8) And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. (11:9) ¶ And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, (11:10) And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. (11:11) Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. (11:12) Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: [but] I will rend it out of the hand of thy son. (11:13) Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; [but] will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen.
​

1Kgs 11:30-43 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:30) And Ahijah caught the new garment that [was] on him, and rent it [in] twelve pieces: (11:31) And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee: (11:32) (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel (11:33) Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do [that which is] right in mine eyes, and [to keep] my statutes and my judgments, as [did] David his father. (11:34) Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes: (11:35) But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, [even] ten tribes. (11:36) And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there. (11:37) And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel. (11:38) And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do [that is] right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee. (11:39) And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever. (11:40) Solomon sought therefore to kill Jeroboam. And Jeroboam arose, and fled into Egypt, unto Shishak king of Egypt, and was in Egypt until the death of Solomon. (11:41) ¶ And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, [are] they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon? (11:42) And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel [was] forty years. (11:43) And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead. ​

The house of Israel and the house of Judah are described in the TaNaK.