The house of Israel and the house of Judah.

[iouae]

The tzit-tzit are likely the tassels that you are referring to. Not all believers wear them. But the men of Israel are supposed to.

No doubt Christ did too.

Somewhere it was prophesied that Messiah comes with healing in his wings (canaph).
Wings refers to edges or hems. It is this that the woman with an issue of blood tried to touch, possibly with that scripture in mind. I am not an expert in garments, but it was something like the tassels that she wanted to touch. Indirect evidence for Christ wearing them. If all Jews did, Christ did too or they would have criticised Him for not having the usual dress code.

 

[Right Divider]

Shalom.

The Torah has 613 Commandments for us to observe. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation. I have seen the website that you are referring to before. Do you accept Matthew 5:17-20 NASB? I do not know if there are New Covenant Commandments. The New Covenant is a Covenant. Often Matthew through Revelation are referred to as The New Covenant. But the Covenant is not the Scriptures themselves. I do not believe in a lost 10 tribes or a lost house of Israel. I do not know who the house of Israel and the house of Judah spoken of in Jeremiah are. I do not accept what you are saying.

You said New Covenant laws. Do you accept 613 laws or commandments?

Shalom.

Jacob

Then why don't you read it. Then you'd know where the house of Judah and house of Israel came from.

1Kgs 11:7-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:7) Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that [is] before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. (11:8) And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. (11:9) ¶ And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, (11:10) And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. (11:11) Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. (11:12) Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: [but] I will rend it out of the hand of thy son. (11:13) Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; [but] will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen.
​

1Kgs 11:30-43 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:30) And Ahijah caught the new garment that [was] on him, and rent it [in] twelve pieces: (11:31) And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee: (11:32) (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel (11:33) Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do [that which is] right in mine eyes, and [to keep] my statutes and my judgments, as [did] David his father. (11:34) Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes: (11:35) But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, [even] ten tribes. (11:36) And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there. (11:37) And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel. (11:38) And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do [that is] right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee. (11:39) And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever. (11:40) Solomon sought therefore to kill Jeroboam. And Jeroboam arose, and fled into Egypt, unto Shishak king of Egypt, and was in Egypt until the death of Solomon. (11:41) ¶ And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, [are] they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon? (11:42) And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel [was] forty years. (11:43) And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead. ​

 

[Wick Stick]

House of Israel; House of Judah

Two different things. The nation that was united under David and Solomon split in two.

The northern half - Israel - immediately went into idolatry, and after multiple chastenings, and sending them prophets, God divorced them entirely, and used the Assyrians to destroy them to the extent that they did not exist as an identifiable people or nation. They lost all identity and culture and blended into the goyim.

The southern half - Judah - went more slowly astray, having some few kings who listened to the prophets, and reformed the country at least partially. Nonetheless, they went into diaspora and captivity in Babylon. However, they were not divorced or destroyed, as Israel, and retained their identity in foreign lands. Subsequently, the nation was re-gathered and the temple re-built by Cyrus consent.

Jesus ministry was about the restoration of Israel (not Judah). It was prophesied that Israel, who was dead, divorced, and not even a people, would be... revived, reconciled, and in the place where they were called "not my people," they would be adopted as "sons of the living God." That is the thrust of Jesus ministry. He Himself testifies that He was sent to "none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Because Israel was cut off completely, and their restoration required adoption, Israel is no longer party to the covenant at Sinai. They are instead re-grafted under the terms of the covenant with Abram.

This is to their benefit. The covenant at Sinai was largley about punishment, as a result of the idolatry they committed right at the base of Sinai. The monarchy and the priesthood were basically always corrupt, and that is in no small part because they were given for the purpose of executing judgment on Israel.

 

[Jacob]

No doubt Christ did too.

Somewhere it was prophesied that Messiah comes with healing in his wings (canaph).
Wings refers to edges or hems. It is this that the woman with an issue of blood tried to touch, possibly with that scripture in mind. I am not an expert in garments, but it was something like the tassels that she wanted to touch. Indirect evidence for Christ wearing them. If all Jews did, Christ did too or they would have criticised Him for not having the usual dress code.

Your observations are reasonable barring any source document beyond this. I do not know what with healing in His wings refers to.

Malachi 4:2
New American Standard Bible
"But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.

 

[Jacob]

Then why don't you read it. Then you'd know where the house of Judah and house of Israel came from.

1Kgs 11:7-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:7) Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that [is] before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. (11:8) And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. (11:9) ¶ And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, (11:10) And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. (11:11) Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. (11:12) Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: [but] I will rend it out of the hand of thy son. (11:13) Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; [but] will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen.
​

1Kgs 11:30-43 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:30) And Ahijah caught the new garment that [was] on him, and rent it [in] twelve pieces: (11:31) And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee: (11:32) (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel (11:33) Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do [that which is] right in mine eyes, and [to keep] my statutes and my judgments, as [did] David his father. (11:34) Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes: (11:35) But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, [even] ten tribes. (11:36) And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there. (11:37) And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel. (11:38) And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do [that is] right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee. (11:39) And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever. (11:40) Solomon sought therefore to kill Jeroboam. And Jeroboam arose, and fled into Egypt, unto Shishak king of Egypt, and was in Egypt until the death of Solomon. (11:41) ¶ And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, [are] they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon? (11:42) And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel [was] forty years. (11:43) And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead. ​

What are you telling me?

I did read Joshua, Judges, and 1st and 2nd Samuel recently.

 

[iouae]

Your observations are reasonable barring any source document beyond this. I do not know what with healing in His wings refers to.

Malachi 4:2
New American Standard Bible
"But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.

Yes, that is the scripture.

Thanks for the chat Jacob.

Sorry I have to go now, because where I live its past 1am.

 

[Jacob]

House of Israel; House of Judah

Two different things. The nation that was united under David and Solomon split in two.

The northern half - Israel - immediately went into idolatry, and after multiple chastenings, and sending them prophets, God divorced them entirely, and used the Assyrians to destroy them to the extent that they did not exist as an identifiable people or nation. They lost all identity and culture and blended into the goyim.

The southern half - Judah - went more slowly astray, having some few kings who listened to the prophets, and reformed the country at least partially. Nonetheless, they went into diaspora and captivity in Babylon. However, they were not divorced or destroyed, as Israel, and retained their identity in foreign lands. Subsequently, the nation was re-gathered and the temple re-built by Cyrus consent.

Jesus ministry was about the restoration of Israel (not Judah). It was prophesied that Israel, who was dead, divorced, and not even a people, would be... revived, reconciled, and in the place where they were called "not my people," they would be adopted as "sons of the living God." That is the thrust of Jesus ministry. He Himself testifies that He was sent to "none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Because Israel was cut off completely, and their restoration required adoption, Israel is no longer party to the covenant at Sinai. They are instead re-grafted under the terms of the covenant with Abram.

This is to their benefit. The covenant at Sinai was largley about punishment, as a result of the idolatry they committed right at the base of Sinai. The monarchy and the priesthood were basically always corrupt, and that is in no small part because they were given for the purpose of executing judgment on Israel.

I disagree with you. There is life in observing God's Commandments. You have heard some version of history. I do not know what you mean by saying that Israel is regrafted. I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Torah. I believe that the New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. I know that the house of Israel is mentioned. But I think that there may be something of the history that I am missing, in regard to what is the house of Israel and (what is the) the house of Judah.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, that is the scripture.

Thanks for the chat Jacob.

Sorry I have to go now, because where I live its past 1am.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Right Divider]

What are you telling me?

I did read Joshua, Judges, and 1st and 2nd Samuel recently.

Jacob, are you really that dense or are you just playing dumb?

I showed you the scripture that explains the houses of Judah and Israel and it wasn't in Joshua, Judges, and 1st and 2nd Samuel.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, are you really that dense or are you just playing dumb?

I showed you the scripture that explains the houses of Judah and Israel and it wasn't in Joshua, Judges, and 1st and 2nd Samuel.

I have read some of the TaNaKh. Before I read the Old Testament. I am neither dense nor playing dumb. You showed me some scripture, and it helps. My question remains unanswered, but likely not because of you. I am thankful for what you presented from your perspective. What am I to believe about the time of Jeremiah and before?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Right Divider]

I have read some of the TaNaKh. Before I read the Old Testament. I am neither dense nor playing dumb. You showed me some scripture, and it helps. My question remains unanswered, but likely not because of you. I am thankful for what you presented from your perspective. What am I to believe about the time of Jeremiah and before?

Shalom.

Jacob

I didn't show you "my perspective". I showed you Biblical facts.

I don't understand your question about Jeremiah.

 

[Jacob]

I didn't show you "my perspective". I showed you Biblical facts.

I don't understand your question about Jeremiah.

I was not saying perspective vs. or or facts. I was saying that you presented something which is obviously yours rather than answering the question that I have, a life question, involving my time on Theology Online. Your answer is a piece of what I need to know. When I looked back, you answered from Kings. My question about Jeremiah involves when it was written and understanding it if I were to read from the TaNaKh with things in place rather than from the Old Testament or Jeremiah the prophet from a Bible. When something was written and how we understand it in relation to other historical input rightly placed, namely Scripture. What was meant by the house of Israel and the house of Judah, including if we are not to accept a divided kingdom or if it came about before something else historically that created the idea or the correct understanding of the house of Israel and the house of Judah as Jeremiah understood it, even as it came from God.

 

[Wick Stick]

I disagree with you. There is life in observing God's Commandments. You have heard some version of history. I do not know what you mean by saying that Israel is regrafted. I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Torah. I believe that the New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. I know that the house of Israel is mentioned. But I think that there may be something of the history that I am missing, in regard to what is the house of Israel and (what is the) the house of Judah.

It appears I wasted my time on someone who has no ears or eyes. Them's the breaks!

 

[Jacob]

It appears I wasted my time on someone who has no ears or eyes. Them's the breaks!

I do have ears and eyes. Are you wondering if you have wasted your time with ME?

 

[Danoh]

Shalom.

I have accepted Jesus' words in Matthew 5:17-20 as for me. I have accepted the covenant upon myself. I keep and teach the Commandments in obedience to Jesus' word and teaching, for it is then that I am great or to be great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [a]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [c]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Shalom.

Jacob

Question - what did you believe way back before you converted to being a Jew?

Did you, for example believe this, way back then....

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Or perhaps this...

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

What did you believe about your sin, and Christ, and the Cross, way back before you began to move toward the conviction that you should convert to being a Jew, etc.?

Thanks,

Rom. 5:8.

 

[Jacob]

Question - what did you believe way back before you converted to being a Jew?

Did you, for example believe this, way back then....

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Or perhaps this...

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

What did you believe about your sin, and Christ, and the Cross, way back before you began to move toward the conviction that you should convert to being a Jew, etc.?

Thanks,

Rom. 5:8.

I believe all the Scripture that you are sharing with me, the same as I have. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation. You want to know what I believed. Well, I was a Christian. I believed the Bible. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation, the Bible, with a different order and arrangement now. I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Torah. I keep and teach the Commandments as Jesus, Yeshua, instructed. I did not believe that all the commandments of the old testament were for me, at least not in the same way that I do as a Jew.

I have spoken briefly with my Rabbi about an assignment, when he had it for me, toward being a Rabbi. This is different from the discussion of if a proselyte needs to say they are a proselyte, and if a person has not been converted if they are really a Jew. I say this because though you are asking about something specific, you have recognized that I say that I am a Jew.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Danoh]

I believe all the Scripture that you are sharing with me, the same as I have. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation. You want to know what I believed. Well, I was a Christian. I believed the Bible. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation, the Bible, with a different order and arrangement now. I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Torah. I keep and teach the Commandments as Jesus, Yeshua, instructed. I did not believe that all the commandments of the old testament were for me, at least not in the same way that I do as a Jew.

I have spoken briefly with my Rabbi about an assignment, when he had it for me, toward being a Rabbi. This is different from the discussion of if a proselyte needs to say they are a proselyte, and if a person has not been converted if they are really a Jew. I say this because though you are asking about something specific, you have recognized that I say that I am a Jew.

Shalom.

Jacob

Oy vey! Lol

Lets try this again.

I did NOT ask you what you believe NOW.

I asked you what you USED TO believe BEFORE what you now believe.

Did you believe you were a sinner who Christ died for?

Did you believe that much?

Did you believe - way back then - that there was something YOU had to ADD to the FINISHED work of the Cross?

What EXACTLY did you believe about THE CROSS OF CHRIST - WAY BEFORE - you began learning about Judaism, or what ever, and decided to convert to that?

Saying one was "a Christian" says nothing.

Plenty of false religions say they are "Christian."

Are we clear now on what EXACTLY it was I asked you about? :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8.

 

[Danoh]

I didn't show you "my perspective". I showed you Biblical facts.

I don't understand your question about Jeremiah.

Right or wrong, sound or unsound - that is still YOUR perspective.

Rom 14:5.

 

[Jacob]

Oy vey! Lol

Lets try this again.

I did NOT ask you what you believe NOW.

I asked you what you USED TO believe BEFORE what you now believe.

Did you believe you were a sinner who Christ died for?

Did you believe that much?

Did you believe - way back then - that there was something YOU had to ADD to the FINISHED work of the Cross?

What EXACTLY did you believe about THE CROSS OF CHRIST - WAY BEFORE - you began learning about Judaism, or what ever, and decided to convert to that?

Saying one was "a Christian" says nothing.

Plenty of false religions say they are "Christian."

Are we clear now on what EXACTLY it was I asked you about? :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8.

Shalom.

I believe that Jesus died for my sins, the same as before. As a Christian I was told that the only commandments to observe were those brought over into the new testament. Saying this it may have been commands rather than commandments, but saying the new testament is ambiguous because this is meaning scripture or the actual covenant or someone's idea or what?

I can unpack any of this if you want me to. But, does that help?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[iouae]

Jacob, Christians have a lot to do with the 1050 NT commands.

I feel that most Christians want to move their Christianity to another, higher level at times.

What some choose to do is go the OT rules, and sacred names route, where Jesus becomes Yeshua etc.

I say this as someone who is a Sabbath keeper, OT feast keeper, clean and unclean food keeper. But these leftovers from the OT are what Jesus did, that's why I do them. And I love and enjoy keeping these few laws. There were very many of the 613 which Christ is not mentioned as doing. These I tend to ignore.

At the end of the day, even the strictest believer that they "keep the commandments" only keep a select few.