HopeofGlory
New member
Evangelion,
I'm having a difficult time understanding what you believe. You make many statements and after a few exchanges you then change your position and try to explain it away. Try thinking before you speak!
I asked:
Do you understand, believe, and accept the book of acts in that it applies directly to you as it did to Israel at Pentecost?
Your response:
Yes, I do. Especially Pentecost. (Baptism for the remission of sins.)
I said:
If you believe the Pentecostal doctrine applies to you then why do you not do the things that He says to do????
Your response:
You are over-generalising. Let's take an example:
Acts 2:14.
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spake forth unto them, saying, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and give ear unto my words.
Obviously I am not one of the "men of Judaea", nor am I one of those who "dwell at Jerusalem." Peter's words, therefore, must be taken in context. There are some things which are intended only for his present audience, and some things which are intended for any man (or woman) of any era. Repentance and baptism are universal principles, whcih apply to anyone who hears the Word of God.
My reply:
You're getting close to the truth!
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: Matt. 10:5 (KJV)
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matt. 10:6 (KJV)
Compare to:
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; Gal. 2:7 (KJV)
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
Gal. 2:8 (KJV)
You asked:
So I guess my question to you is this - why have you not repented and been baptised?
My reply:
I believe Jesus is the Son of God and I have been baptized by the Spirit into the body by faith in the new testament.
You asked:
What's your point? Are you trying to tell me that the eunuch was baptised without faith, and without understanding?
I said:
What the eunuch said does not "prove" that he understood that faith in the shed blood of Christ was for remission of sins.
You said:
Ridiculous! The book of Acts tells us that Philip explained this prophecy to the eunuch.
My reply:
You're over generalizing!
You said:
We are specifically told that he "preached unto him Jesus." I want you to tell me what you think Philip told him by way of explaining this prophecy to the eunuch and preached unto him Jesus. I want you to tell me what you think Philip would have mentioned all of these when he explained the prophecy to the eunuch. You are trying to avoid my argument instead of addressing it.
My reply:
If you want to know what Phillip told the eunuch then simply read the scriptures.
I said:
Grace is not possible without faith in the shed blood of Christ for remission of sins.
Your response:
Agreed.
My reply:
Now address the argument and prove the new testament was revealed by the apostles at Pentecost or by Phillip to the eunuch or that Isaiah 53 contains it.
Read this:
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 1 Cor. 15:1 (KJV)
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 1 Cor. 15:2 (KJV)
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1 Cor. 15:3 (KJV)
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Cor. 15:4 (KJV)
Compare to:
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. Gal. 1:11 (KJV)
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Gal. 1:12 (KJV)
You said:
Straw man. The Holy Spirit told Philip to go to the eunuch. He went to the eunuch for the express purpose of converting him. Are you trying to tell me that Philip failed? Are you trying to tell me that God would send Philip to the eunuch for the purpose of saving him, and then permit him to leave despite not having failed in his commission? Your argument is utterly nonsensical. You are begging the question instead of answering it.
My reply:
Two different commissions:
Gospel of the circumcision= under the law + 12 apostles did not teach of His death for remission (New testament) + water baptism for remission.
Gospel of the uncircumcision= not under law + Paul did not teach water baptism for remission (Old testament) + faith in His shed blood for remission.
The 12 believed their commissiom was to water baptize.
Paul was not commissioned to water baptize.
I said:
How do we recieve remission of sins?
Your response:
By a faithful confession of our sins, and submission to baptism.
My reply:
Wrong!
Without faith in the shed blood of Christ there is no remission of sins.
You said:
Straw man and a false equivocation. Are you telling me that we don't have to repent in order to be saved? Is that what you're telling me? You are picking and choosing your Scriptures without any reference to context. This is deceitful and illogical.
Earlier exchange:
I said:
Grace is not possible without faith in the shed blood of Christ
for remission of sins.
You said:
Agreed.
My reply:
You're deceitful and illogical unless you "now" believe we are not saved by grace. Explain!
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom. 3:25 (KJV)
To declare, I say, """at this time""" his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Rom. 3:26 (KJV)
You said:
Romans 6:3-4.
Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
My reply:
Read Jerry's post on Romans 6.
It's a Spiritual baptism.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is '''neither male nor female:'''' for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:28 (KJV)
When you were water baptized did you become a eunuch?
You said:
This is a clear reference to water baptism. "Spirit baptism" (or whatever you people call it these days) is not the "baptism" referred to here. How do we know? Because Paul says that the baptism of which he speaks, is symbolic of death and resurrection. Only water baptism can fulfill this typology.
Read this:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:14 (KJV)
You said:
The shed blood of Christ for remission of sins is taken for granted in verse 38.
My reply:
The shed blood of Christ should never be "taked for granted".
You said:
Don't be obtuse. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
Do you read your Bible at all, or do you simply sit on your couch and watch TBN every Sunday?
My reply:
Your imbecilic remarks mean nothing.
In Christ
Craig
I'm having a difficult time understanding what you believe. You make many statements and after a few exchanges you then change your position and try to explain it away. Try thinking before you speak!
I asked:
Do you understand, believe, and accept the book of acts in that it applies directly to you as it did to Israel at Pentecost?
Your response:
Yes, I do. Especially Pentecost. (Baptism for the remission of sins.)
I said:
If you believe the Pentecostal doctrine applies to you then why do you not do the things that He says to do????
Your response:
You are over-generalising. Let's take an example:
Acts 2:14.
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spake forth unto them, saying, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and give ear unto my words.
Obviously I am not one of the "men of Judaea", nor am I one of those who "dwell at Jerusalem." Peter's words, therefore, must be taken in context. There are some things which are intended only for his present audience, and some things which are intended for any man (or woman) of any era. Repentance and baptism are universal principles, whcih apply to anyone who hears the Word of God.
My reply:
You're getting close to the truth!
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: Matt. 10:5 (KJV)
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matt. 10:6 (KJV)
Compare to:
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; Gal. 2:7 (KJV)
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
Gal. 2:8 (KJV)You asked:
So I guess my question to you is this - why have you not repented and been baptised?
My reply:
I believe Jesus is the Son of God and I have been baptized by the Spirit into the body by faith in the new testament.
You asked:
What's your point? Are you trying to tell me that the eunuch was baptised without faith, and without understanding?
I said:
What the eunuch said does not "prove" that he understood that faith in the shed blood of Christ was for remission of sins.
You said:
Ridiculous! The book of Acts tells us that Philip explained this prophecy to the eunuch.
My reply:
You're over generalizing!
You said:
We are specifically told that he "preached unto him Jesus." I want you to tell me what you think Philip told him by way of explaining this prophecy to the eunuch and preached unto him Jesus. I want you to tell me what you think Philip would have mentioned all of these when he explained the prophecy to the eunuch. You are trying to avoid my argument instead of addressing it.
My reply:
If you want to know what Phillip told the eunuch then simply read the scriptures.
I said:
Grace is not possible without faith in the shed blood of Christ for remission of sins.
Your response:
Agreed.
My reply:
Now address the argument and prove the new testament was revealed by the apostles at Pentecost or by Phillip to the eunuch or that Isaiah 53 contains it.
Read this:
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 1 Cor. 15:1 (KJV)
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 1 Cor. 15:2 (KJV)
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1 Cor. 15:3 (KJV)
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Cor. 15:4 (KJV)
Compare to:
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. Gal. 1:11 (KJV)
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Gal. 1:12 (KJV)
You said:
Straw man. The Holy Spirit told Philip to go to the eunuch. He went to the eunuch for the express purpose of converting him. Are you trying to tell me that Philip failed? Are you trying to tell me that God would send Philip to the eunuch for the purpose of saving him, and then permit him to leave despite not having failed in his commission? Your argument is utterly nonsensical. You are begging the question instead of answering it.
My reply:
Two different commissions:
Gospel of the circumcision= under the law + 12 apostles did not teach of His death for remission (New testament) + water baptism for remission.
Gospel of the uncircumcision= not under law + Paul did not teach water baptism for remission (Old testament) + faith in His shed blood for remission.
The 12 believed their commissiom was to water baptize.
Paul was not commissioned to water baptize.
I said:
How do we recieve remission of sins?
Your response:
By a faithful confession of our sins, and submission to baptism.
My reply:
Wrong!
Without faith in the shed blood of Christ there is no remission of sins.
You said:
Straw man and a false equivocation. Are you telling me that we don't have to repent in order to be saved? Is that what you're telling me? You are picking and choosing your Scriptures without any reference to context. This is deceitful and illogical.
Earlier exchange:
I said:
Grace is not possible without faith in the shed blood of Christ
for remission of sins.
You said:
Agreed.
My reply:
You're deceitful and illogical unless you "now" believe we are not saved by grace. Explain!
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom. 3:25 (KJV)
To declare, I say, """at this time""" his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Rom. 3:26 (KJV)
You said:
Romans 6:3-4.
Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
My reply:
Read Jerry's post on Romans 6.
It's a Spiritual baptism.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is '''neither male nor female:'''' for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:28 (KJV)
When you were water baptized did you become a eunuch?
You said:
This is a clear reference to water baptism. "Spirit baptism" (or whatever you people call it these days) is not the "baptism" referred to here. How do we know? Because Paul says that the baptism of which he speaks, is symbolic of death and resurrection. Only water baptism can fulfill this typology.
Read this:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:14 (KJV)
You said:
The shed blood of Christ for remission of sins is taken for granted in verse 38.
My reply:
The shed blood of Christ should never be "taked for granted".
You said:
Don't be obtuse. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
Do you read your Bible at all, or do you simply sit on your couch and watch TBN every Sunday?
My reply:
Your imbecilic remarks mean nothing.
In Christ
Craig
